Timing Belt replacement
Discussion
The timing belt on my '87TE has been serviced 5k miles (but equates to 8 years in time). I've looked at the belt and really see no visible signs of wear. Should I have it changed anyway? Can anyone suggest a cheap reliable mechanical source (in Michigan)? AutoEurope in Michigan typically charges $90/hr for service. Thanks. Jim
Do not screw around with this one or you will be sorry. The belt itself is only about $80. The labor is another about 5-7 hundred or so if you get the valves adjusted. I think the max on these belts is 7 years/100K on the new updated Gates belts. (Red letters on the belt starting with B).
Jim said:
The service interval on your belt is 10k mi. or two years. The belt is about $15 and you could do it yourself faily easily. If interested, let me know and I will detail instructions for you. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
I will be due a belt change in about 12 months and was considering letting a specialist do the job as it looks really awkward.
Is it that much more difficult than swapping the radiator, crossgate cable, linkage, exhaust etc?
If you knock out a set of instructions, could you let me have a copy so that I can consider whether this job is beyond me.
Cheers
Pat '87TurboHC.
Hi All,
Ok...to change the timing belt...
1. Set engine to TDC.
You can do this by disconnecting the battery, removing or loosening the sparkplugs and leads, putting the car in 5th gear. Push it forward until the timing dots or dimples on the rim of both the intake and exhaust pulleys line up. If you run out of forward room, put the car in neutral, push it back, re-engage 5th gear and push forward again until the dots line up (right next to one another, not on opposite sides). Once you have the dots aligned, check the timing pointer with the marking on the flywheel to ensure you are in fact at TDC (there is some slight variation, so if the pointer isn't exactly lined up, but a degree or two off, it's ok. The variation is due to design tolerances and whether the head has previously been milled etc.). Set the parking break, and keep in gear so it doesn't move.
2. Drain some coolant.
This is because you will need to disconnect both the upper coolant hose/pipe as well as the other large coolant hose from the waterpump as they 'live' inside the circle created by the timing belt. You'll need to drain approx. 1/2 gal. to drop the coolant level below this hose, save for later refill. Remove the lower coolant hose from underneath after removing the engine undertray.
3. Remove the Alternator.
First remove both electrical connections to the Alternator. Next, unbolt (13mm) the three bolts/nuts securing the alternator and remove both the alternator and it's triangle bracket. Also the 'V' belt. Do this from above.
4. Loosen the AC compressor.
from it's bracket sufficiently that you can remove it's 'V' belt. No trick to either of these, just loosen the bolts securing them. Do this from below .
5. Loosen the vacuum pump.
This uses two Allen set screws. An 8mm Hex socket works well. An Allen wrench may work, but is likely to be too long to get into the tight space. Another trick is to cut off a piece from an 8mm Allen wrench approx 1" long and insert it into the set screw, then use an 8mm closed end wrench to turn it. Remove the Vacuum pump/Waterpump 'V' belt.
6. Remove the Crank 'V' belt pulley.
With the engine in gear, parking brake on, use a 21mm socket to loosen the securing bolt and conical washer. Pulley should come right off, if not, tap gently around the rim w/ a Dead Blow Hammer, or lacking that, a regular hammer with a piece of wood as a drift. I have only seen one stuck, all the others merely came free.
7. Re-check TDC position.
Check to see that the engine has remained at TDC and that nothing has moved when you removed 'V' belt pulley. Again, nothing should have moved, but it's good to check.
8. Check alignment of Auxillary shaft pulley.
It's good to make a witness mark w/ a white paint pen or White Out on both the Aux. Shaft pulley and the block to insure it is repositioned properly when installing the new belt. If not, your ignition timing will be off.
9. Release tension on the tensioner.
On >'85 cars, you can merely unscrew the tensioner bolt using a 19mm? socket. On earlier cars equipped w/ semi-automatic tensioner, you need to apply pressure to the timing belt to compress the tensioner's piston. Then, insert a 4mm drift, or 4mm drill bit into the tensioner body to lock the tensioner. But, this is only for the pre-'86 cars.
10. Remove the timing belt.
Simply work it off the 3 pulleys and the crank pulley. Extract from either the top or bottom.
11. Install new belt.
Thread the new belt around the Exh., Int. and Aux. pulleys, over the tensioner roller and onto the crank pulley (it will be tight and you may need a screwdriver to use as a lever to start the belt over the crank pulley), making sure that the Aux. pulley lines up w/ the witness mark you made previously. Make new witness marks on both the belt and both the Exh. and Int. pulleys to insure the belt does not move when tensioning it.
12. Tension the new belt.
Using the same 19mm? socket as before, tighten the tensioner until you get a reading of 90-95 Lbs. (engine cold) on a Burroughs Gauge, 55 lbs. on a Kriket Gauge, or until you can just twist the belt 90° when twisting it between the Intake and Aux. Shaft Pulley. On pre-'86 cars, remove the locking drift from the tensioner and turn the tension bolt (some are screws) until the desired tension is achieved. Engine should be hand rotated 120° and tension rechecked, rotated again 120° and rechecked again.
13. Rotate engine and recheck witness marks and timing dimples and belt tension.
Put car in Neutral and using the 21mm socket on the crank bolt w/ conical washer, hand rotate the engine clockwise (as you face the crank) until two full revolutions of the crank have been achieved. Stop at TDC. Recheck belt tension and all relevant marks (Timing Pointer at Flywheel, timing dots on Pulleys, witness marks on all pulleys). This is to insure that the belt did not jump a tooth when tensioning. If it has, repeat alignment and tensioning procedure. If cams have moved significantly, loosen belt and turn the crank anti-clockwise 90° (be sure belt does not move). This will draw all pistons halfway down their bores permitting you to rotate the cams back into position (each cam has 16 valve springs acting on it, so it will take a little muscle to move the cam, but this is rarely necessary). If turning the crank back 90°, be sure to reset it to TDC before installing the belt and tensioning it (there is an index mark on the front cover and a 'V' cut into the rim of the 'V' belt pulley for this purpose). Recheck belt tension using any of the three methods described above.
14. Re-install the crank 'V' Pulley.
Use some anti-sieze on both the inside rim of the 'V' pulley center and on the crank bolt. Pulley is 'keyed' and will go on only one way. replace conical washer and bolt and w/ car in gear, parking brake on, tighten crank bolt to 58-60 ft.lbs. in 3 stages.
15. Re-install the Lower Coolant Hose.
Make sure you get it on good and clamp is tightly secured.
16. Re-install 'V' Belts.
This is a good time to change them, so plan ahead. Re-tighten all accessories until you can deflect the belts ½" in either direction.
17. Replace upper coolant hose.
Reverse of removal.
18. Refill coolant.
Use coolant drained previously.
19. Tighten sparkplugs.
24-26 ft.lbs. in two stages and reconnect high tension leads.
20. Check for lost tools, loose wires etc. Reconnect Battery.
21. Lower car, check once again for anything out of place.
22. Start car and run at idle for two minutes.
23. Stop engine and recheck belt tension between Int. and Aux. Shaft Pulleys as before, retighten as necessary.
24. Re-install engine undertray.
Reverse of removal
That's all there is to it. Be sure to have a good jack and jackstands (place under car's jacking points with a piece of wood between jackstand and car underbody). It helps to have a good trouble light and a helper, for morale support if nothing else. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 2nd October 23:52
Ok...to change the timing belt...
1. Set engine to TDC.
You can do this by disconnecting the battery, removing or loosening the sparkplugs and leads, putting the car in 5th gear. Push it forward until the timing dots or dimples on the rim of both the intake and exhaust pulleys line up. If you run out of forward room, put the car in neutral, push it back, re-engage 5th gear and push forward again until the dots line up (right next to one another, not on opposite sides). Once you have the dots aligned, check the timing pointer with the marking on the flywheel to ensure you are in fact at TDC (there is some slight variation, so if the pointer isn't exactly lined up, but a degree or two off, it's ok. The variation is due to design tolerances and whether the head has previously been milled etc.). Set the parking break, and keep in gear so it doesn't move.
2. Drain some coolant.
This is because you will need to disconnect both the upper coolant hose/pipe as well as the other large coolant hose from the waterpump as they 'live' inside the circle created by the timing belt. You'll need to drain approx. 1/2 gal. to drop the coolant level below this hose, save for later refill. Remove the lower coolant hose from underneath after removing the engine undertray.
3. Remove the Alternator.
First remove both electrical connections to the Alternator. Next, unbolt (13mm) the three bolts/nuts securing the alternator and remove both the alternator and it's triangle bracket. Also the 'V' belt. Do this from above.
4. Loosen the AC compressor.
from it's bracket sufficiently that you can remove it's 'V' belt. No trick to either of these, just loosen the bolts securing them. Do this from below .
5. Loosen the vacuum pump.
This uses two Allen set screws. An 8mm Hex socket works well. An Allen wrench may work, but is likely to be too long to get into the tight space. Another trick is to cut off a piece from an 8mm Allen wrench approx 1" long and insert it into the set screw, then use an 8mm closed end wrench to turn it. Remove the Vacuum pump/Waterpump 'V' belt.
6. Remove the Crank 'V' belt pulley.
With the engine in gear, parking brake on, use a 21mm socket to loosen the securing bolt and conical washer. Pulley should come right off, if not, tap gently around the rim w/ a Dead Blow Hammer, or lacking that, a regular hammer with a piece of wood as a drift. I have only seen one stuck, all the others merely came free.
7. Re-check TDC position.
Check to see that the engine has remained at TDC and that nothing has moved when you removed 'V' belt pulley. Again, nothing should have moved, but it's good to check.
8. Check alignment of Auxillary shaft pulley.
It's good to make a witness mark w/ a white paint pen or White Out on both the Aux. Shaft pulley and the block to insure it is repositioned properly when installing the new belt. If not, your ignition timing will be off.
9. Release tension on the tensioner.
On >'85 cars, you can merely unscrew the tensioner bolt using a 19mm? socket. On earlier cars equipped w/ semi-automatic tensioner, you need to apply pressure to the timing belt to compress the tensioner's piston. Then, insert a 4mm drift, or 4mm drill bit into the tensioner body to lock the tensioner. But, this is only for the pre-'86 cars.
10. Remove the timing belt.
Simply work it off the 3 pulleys and the crank pulley. Extract from either the top or bottom.
11. Install new belt.
Thread the new belt around the Exh., Int. and Aux. pulleys, over the tensioner roller and onto the crank pulley (it will be tight and you may need a screwdriver to use as a lever to start the belt over the crank pulley), making sure that the Aux. pulley lines up w/ the witness mark you made previously. Make new witness marks on both the belt and both the Exh. and Int. pulleys to insure the belt does not move when tensioning it.
12. Tension the new belt.
Using the same 19mm? socket as before, tighten the tensioner until you get a reading of 90-95 Lbs. (engine cold) on a Burroughs Gauge, 55 lbs. on a Kriket Gauge, or until you can just twist the belt 90° when twisting it between the Intake and Aux. Shaft Pulley. On pre-'86 cars, remove the locking drift from the tensioner and turn the tension bolt (some are screws) until the desired tension is achieved. Engine should be hand rotated 120° and tension rechecked, rotated again 120° and rechecked again.
13. Rotate engine and recheck witness marks and timing dimples and belt tension.
Put car in Neutral and using the 21mm socket on the crank bolt w/ conical washer, hand rotate the engine clockwise (as you face the crank) until two full revolutions of the crank have been achieved. Stop at TDC. Recheck belt tension and all relevant marks (Timing Pointer at Flywheel, timing dots on Pulleys, witness marks on all pulleys). This is to insure that the belt did not jump a tooth when tensioning. If it has, repeat alignment and tensioning procedure. If cams have moved significantly, loosen belt and turn the crank anti-clockwise 90° (be sure belt does not move). This will draw all pistons halfway down their bores permitting you to rotate the cams back into position (each cam has 16 valve springs acting on it, so it will take a little muscle to move the cam, but this is rarely necessary). If turning the crank back 90°, be sure to reset it to TDC before installing the belt and tensioning it (there is an index mark on the front cover and a 'V' cut into the rim of the 'V' belt pulley for this purpose). Recheck belt tension using any of the three methods described above.
14. Re-install the crank 'V' Pulley.
Use some anti-sieze on both the inside rim of the 'V' pulley center and on the crank bolt. Pulley is 'keyed' and will go on only one way. replace conical washer and bolt and w/ car in gear, parking brake on, tighten crank bolt to 58-60 ft.lbs. in 3 stages.
15. Re-install the Lower Coolant Hose.
Make sure you get it on good and clamp is tightly secured.
16. Re-install 'V' Belts.
This is a good time to change them, so plan ahead. Re-tighten all accessories until you can deflect the belts ½" in either direction.
17. Replace upper coolant hose.
Reverse of removal.
18. Refill coolant.
Use coolant drained previously.
19. Tighten sparkplugs.
24-26 ft.lbs. in two stages and reconnect high tension leads.
20. Check for lost tools, loose wires etc. Reconnect Battery.
21. Lower car, check once again for anything out of place.
22. Start car and run at idle for two minutes.
23. Stop engine and recheck belt tension between Int. and Aux. Shaft Pulleys as before, retighten as necessary.
24. Re-install engine undertray.
Reverse of removal
That's all there is to it. Be sure to have a good jack and jackstands (place under car's jacking points with a piece of wood between jackstand and car underbody). It helps to have a good trouble light and a helper, for morale support if nothing else. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 2nd October 23:52
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info on changing the Timing Belt. Unfortunately I have no idea when mine was changed, I already have the belt and the books, but it is always nice to hear from somebody that has done it before. I printed it out so when I tackle the job in my garage I will have it right there.
Do you know where you can get one of of those Kriket gauges you mentioned. I've been looking but I can't seem to get anywhere. Thanks again,
Kenny
Thanks for the info on changing the Timing Belt. Unfortunately I have no idea when mine was changed, I already have the belt and the books, but it is always nice to hear from somebody that has done it before. I printed it out so when I tackle the job in my garage I will have it right there.
Do you know where you can get one of of those Kriket gauges you mentioned. I've been looking but I can't seem to get anywhere. Thanks again,
Kenny
xjsjag said:
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info on changing the Timing Belt. Unfortunately I have no idea when mine was changed, I already have the belt and the books, but it is always nice to hear from somebody that has done it before. I printed it out so when I tackle the job in my garage I will have it right there.
Do you know where you can get one of of those Kriket gauges you mentioned. I've been looking but I can't seem to get anywhere. Thanks again,
Kenny
Kenny,
The Kriket gauge I mentioned is made by Gates Rubber Co. You can get or order one through any outlet that sells Gates Belts and Hoses for about $15.00USD. Most places will likely have to order it, but they should be able to get it to you in 5 days or less depending upon when they are having their next order shipped. Good Luck and feel free to contact me for any further assistance I may provide. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
A quick question regarding the Krikit Gauge is that is designed for V Belts, does it work ok with the Timing belt ?
Have you used it ?
Any particular tips ?
I can get hold of this tool but would like to ensure it is the correct one and there isn't a different version for timing belts as opposed to v belts ?
Have you used it ?
Any particular tips ?
I can get hold of this tool but would like to ensure it is the correct one and there isn't a different version for timing belts as opposed to v belts ?
Del-Esprit said:
A quick question regarding the Krikit Gauge is that is designed for V Belts, does it work ok with the Timing belt ?
Have you used it ?
Any particular tips ?
I can get hold of this tool but would like to ensure it is the correct one and there isn't a different version for timing belts as opposed to v belts ?
Del,
There are four known and proven methods of gauging the timing belt. Each has been tested against the other by myself and another local club member and they all corroberate each other.
1. A 'Lotus' Burroughs gauge
This is a regular Burroughs Gauge w/ a proprietary dial face which has only the marks 90, 95 'units'. Which we took to be Ft.lbs. Proper tension is achieved when taking a reading between the intake cam pulley and the auxillary pulley and showing 95 'units' on the gauge.
2. A standard Burroughs gauge
A properly tensioned belt w/ a 'Lotus' Burroughs gauge reading of 95 'units' yielded a standard Burroughs gauge reading of 95 Ft.lbs. between the intake cam pulley and the auxillary pulley.
3. A Kriket gauge
Again, a known, properly tensioned belt yielded a reading of 55 on the Kriket gauge when tested between the intake cam pulley and the auxillary pulley.
4. The hand twist method
Once again, a known, properly tensioned belt could only be twisted about 90° in either direction when twisted on the run between the intake cam pulley and the auxillary pulley. This test has been carried out repeatedly on every belt we tested (different cars, belts over 3-4 years)and consistently borne out.
I own a standard Burroughs gauge and I calibrate it using Burroughs' own method of suspending a couple known weights from the gauge exactly 1 foot from the floor. I also own a kriket gauge, and of course a hand (two in fact). Everytime I tension a belt (numbering at least a dozen times on my car and friends), I use all three methods (#2, 3, 4) to verify each other. They consistently corroberate each other. Hope this helps. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Tuesday 19th August 13:50
Jim,
I'm curious why you push the car in gear rather than using a socket on the crank. Is it just more convenient with everything still connected and in the way?
Coincidentally, my finace's long-suffering VW Cabriolet is getting a timing belt and tensioner tonight when I get home. Simple with a capital "S" on that car.
I'm curious why you push the car in gear rather than using a socket on the crank. Is it just more convenient with everything still connected and in the way?
Coincidentally, my finace's long-suffering VW Cabriolet is getting a timing belt and tensioner tonight when I get home. Simple with a capital "S" on that car.
MikeyRide said:
Jim,
I'm curious why you push the car in gear rather than using a socket on the crank. Is it just more convenient with everything still connected and in the way?
Coincidentally, my finace's long-suffering VW Cabriolet is getting a timing belt and tensioner tonight when I get home. Simple with a capital "S" on that car.
Mike,
The biggest reason for pushing the car in gear rather than spinning a socket on the crank bolt is that it is just easier and better insures you are at TDC. Pushing the car, especially on a level surface, is a lot easier than it sounds.
Determining TDC while on your back, in a fairly dark, cramped, space, requires that you sight and judge the alignment of the crank 'V' pulley with the index on the Front Cover, essentially a parallax view, which must then be verified anyway by sighting the cam pulley dots or the Flywheel index against it's pointer.
If one were to use a Dial indicator through the sparkplug hole and a degree wheel on the crank, to find absolute TDC, you'd be amazed how innaccurate the TDC mark on the front of the engine is. Due to somewhat loose design tolerances, including the amount of play available when installing the Front Cover, which is not 'keyed', I have seen variances of up to 4° between the factory marks and 'True' TDC.
But, you certainly could simply spin the crank if you wanted to. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Am currently selling my car,but if i still have it when next service is due then i will STILL change the belt. Even despite the fact she has done under 2K since the last belt change,it will still be a two year old belt that has seen the heat for every one of those miles. Also,the tensioner has not been examined for same amount of time,these are not finite either.
Is simply a service item.
Would expect next buyer to be looking for such detail in the history anyhow. I would,and i'm speaking as a guy who has had an engine rebuilt(cracked piston), would have been gutted if it had been something i could have prevented as simply as changing a belt.
Would you trust a two year old bungee rope,heated to engine temperature a few times,under constant stress?.
What!,not even if you were SURE it had another year left on it?.
Ownership can be scary at times anyway,so why up the odds?. If i could not afford to change it,then i'd have to consider if i could afford to own it.
You need to be able to rev with confidence don't you?,it where the fun is at.
Or so i think.
Is simply a service item.
Would expect next buyer to be looking for such detail in the history anyhow. I would,and i'm speaking as a guy who has had an engine rebuilt(cracked piston), would have been gutted if it had been something i could have prevented as simply as changing a belt.
Would you trust a two year old bungee rope,heated to engine temperature a few times,under constant stress?.
What!,not even if you were SURE it had another year left on it?.
Ownership can be scary at times anyway,so why up the odds?. If i could not afford to change it,then i'd have to consider if i could afford to own it.
You need to be able to rev with confidence don't you?,it where the fun is at.
Or so i think.
lotusguy said:That makes perfect sense. Never having had to do it, I was thinking you could access the crank from the top of the engine.
Determining TDC while on your back, in a fairly dark, cramped, space, requires that you sight and judge the alignment of the crank 'V' pulley with the index on the Front Cover, essentially a parallax view, which must then be verified anyway by sighting the cam pulley dots or the Flywheel index against it's pointer.
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