Strava

[Kermit power]

One thing I would like to see on Strava is the ability to filter by bike on the personal leaderboard.

I like looking at segments to see if I'm improving over time, but there are some segments that I've ridden on a CX bike and a Hardtail on big tyres, so it's pretty difficult to see an actual picture of performance over time.

[Gruffy]

okgo said:

I don't know what puts people off. The licence is £50 or someone, not really a barrier, people cite time but many still find the time to ride 150-200 mikes a week.

It's all the talk about shoddy discipline and frequent crashes that puts me off. I stretched to get my bike and it's quite precious to me. I would be fuming if it was damaged by a numpty.

I'm thinking back to karting days were the sprint races were full of banzai idiots and the endurance races were more honest (you were either quick or you weren't). I suspect it's largely the same in crits vs road racing?

[Steve vRS]

Gruffy said:

okgo said:

I don't know what puts people off. The licence is £50 or someone, not really a barrier, people cite time but many still find the time to ride 150-200 mikes a week.

It's all the talk about shoddy discipline and frequent crashes that puts me off. I stretched to get my bike and it's quite precious to me. I would be fuming if it was damaged by a numpty.

I'm thinking back to karting days were the sprint races were full of banzai idiots and the endurance races were more honest (you were either quick or you weren't). I suspect it's largely the same in crits vs road racing?

I was dead set on doing a crit this year but I echo what Gruffy has said. The tales of crashes on tight circuits has put me off.

I know group riding and gaining a position in the pack is part of race craft but it isn't a risk I want to take in order to finish mid table as I've no pretension of winning with my aging legs!

So I'll stick to CX racing, TTs and Strava

I know, hand in my PH card on the way out....

Steve

Edited by Steve vRS on Thursday 21st May 10:34

[okgo]

Zigster said:

When I do parkrun, I'm "racing" primarily against myself but I also like to see how I'm doing against other people. I don't need to be a professional runner to do that.

Similarly with cycling - I like going out for a ride with my mates and I like to see how quick I am and how I compare with them. That doesn't make me want to be a professional racer. What would be the point of a racing licence for me? What would I use it for?

We're talking about amateur racing, not riding along side Bradley on the TV.

Perhaps as gruffy says its more to do with the cost of the stuff if you stack it. And that does happen a fair bit, I was in a 5 man break on Tues night and somehow in the sprint for the line two of them came together!

Just an observation, we'd have a lot more healthy scene if there were far les sportives and more people racing.

[WinstonWolf]

okgo said:

Zigster said:

When I do parkrun, I'm "racing" primarily against myself but I also like to see how I'm doing against other people. I don't need to be a professional runner to do that.

Similarly with cycling - I like going out for a ride with my mates and I like to see how quick I am and how I compare with them. That doesn't make me want to be a professional racer. What would be the point of a racing licence for me? What would I use it for?

We're talking about amateur racing, not riding along side Bradley on the TV.

Perhaps as gruffy says its more to do with the cost of the stuff if you stack it. And that does happen a fair bit, I was in a 5 man break on Tues night and somehow in the sprint for the line two of them came together!

Just an observation, we'd have a lot more healthy scene if there were far les sportives and more people racing.

With the greatest of respect, bks.

Sportives are a great way of ensuring you get out to train and maintain your fitness without the need to race.

[tog]

whatleytom said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

If we are talking about the same chap, he has most of the segments in the area, I used to enjoy challenging him for the short sprints, but haven't had the time or weather (it rains a lot) to get close! I have seen him cycling about , I even saw him in person take my favourite KOM I had when I was walking my dogs, which was ironic.

I assume we must be (Ian T, don't see any harm in naming him here?) I don't really remember seeing him on Strava before now, but didn't pay too much attention. I had a fair few KOMs round my way (Badbury, Wanborough and out towards Aldbourne, a couple in town too) Not to precious about any of them, just seems weird.

That and I want to have a fair crack at them based on current form!

Ha! You guys are safe from me! I'm near Swindon too and though use Strava for recording my own rides, I've never really looked at the leader boards. I just checked though, and Ian T does most segments in about half the time I do, while he's on a longer ride too. I'm usually near the bottom of the list, but I'm happy there

[okgo]

WinstonWolf said:

With the greatest of respect, bks.

Sportives are a great way of ensuring you get out to train and maintain your fitness without the need to race.

IMO they're a total nightmare to most other road users, inc other cyclists that have some idea of how to behave on the roads, and the regularity of them in my neck of the woods mean that all cyclists are hated regardless.

I drove back the same way as a big on in Kent last week, it was appalling, shocking riding, very poor choice of route from the orgs too, not good.

[S10GTA]

okgo said:

IMO they're a total nightmare to most other road users, inc other cyclists that have some idea of how to behave on the roads, and the regularity of them in my neck of the woods mean that all cyclists are hated regardless.

I drove back the same way as a big on in Kent last week, it was appalling, shocking riding, very poor choice of route from the orgs too, not good.

He's right. Wiggle in the forest is a prime example.

[Devil2575]

Kermit power said:

okgo said:

I don't know what puts people off. The licence is £50 or someone, not really a barrier, people cite time but many still find the time to ride 150-200 mikes a week.

I don't really mind either way it's just that many people seem to think they are racing when doing fun runs and the like (sportives)

Any time I get to ride 100 miles a week, it means I've commuted to work and back three times, which is time I'd otherwise spend on the train and walking to/from the stations, so dead time anyway. Go beyond that, and I struggle to find 2-3 hours in a week to get out. I do everything I can to get out on the trails with friends on a Friday evening and have a pint afterwards, but the weekends are largely consumed by the kids.

One advantage of Strava is that people can see how they rank against others without having to ride at the same time as them, which addresses the above issue. For roadies, I suspect there are also a fairly significant proportion who would feel nervous at the thought of riding in a peleton?

This is exactly my situation. I aim to do 100 miles per week but around half of that will be my commute. I go out in the summer typically one night mid week after the kids are in bed and then Saturday evening/Sunday morning for a few hours. The rest of the time is taken up with kids. I actually prefer to ride alone and I don't feel especially comfortable riding in a big group, not least because it frequently results in car drivers doing silly things. I've also noticed that a certain proportion of group riders have an air of millitance about them when it comes to other road users that i'm really not interested in.

Strava means I can get an idea of where I am at pace wise in relation to other riders.

[WinstonWolf]

okgo said:

WinstonWolf said:

With the greatest of respect, bks.

Sportives are a great way of ensuring you get out to train and maintain your fitness without the need to race.

IMO they're a total nightmare to most other road users, inc other cyclists that have some idea of how to behave on the roads, and the regularity of them in my neck of the woods mean that all cyclists are hated regardless.

I drove back the same way as a big on in Kent last week, it was appalling, shocking riding, very poor choice of route from the orgs too, not good.

So, not sportives per-se but badly run ones...

[Zigster]

okgo said:

We're talking about amateur racing, not riding along side Bradley on the TV.

Perhaps as gruffy says its more to do with the cost of the stuff if you stack it. And that does happen a fair bit, I was in a 5 man break on Tues night and somehow in the sprint for the line two of them came together!

Just an observation, we'd have a lot more healthy scene if there were far les sportives and more people racing.

I guess that's it for me - I like cycling (i.e. sportive style cycling) but racing doesn't interest me. I wouldn't want the cost of replacing kit when I crash but I'd also much rather not crash for fear of injury as well - older 40-something bones don't heal so quick. And I wouldn't have the time for the training - the bunch of us from my village meet at 7.30 on a Sunday morning so we can get a couple of hours in and still be home to spend the day with the kids.

I did a sportive on Sunday with an old friend. He goes out with his local club from time to time but he doesn't really enjoy it as they insist on a really tight formation - very close to each others' wheels and all of them seem to have had broken collar bones at some point. Seems a bit stressful rather than an enjoyable way to spend time.

In that respect, I can see the point about the thread on cycling being the new golf ...

[TonyHetherington]

okgo said:

WinstonWolf said:

With the greatest of respect, bks.

Sportives are a great way of ensuring you get out to train and maintain your fitness without the need to race.

IMO they're a total nightmare to most other road users, inc other cyclists that have some idea of how to behave on the roads, and the regularity of them in my neck of the woods mean that all cyclists are hated regardless.

I drove back the same way as a big on in Kent last week, it was appalling, shocking riding, very poor choice of route from the orgs too, not good.

As much as I like doing sportives, I do agree that for other road users they are an absolute pain in the arse; and that riding standards are pretty poor. In all walks of life you get that, of course, it's just that you have a concentration of idiots in one place

[Devil2575]

okgo said:

WinstonWolf said:

With the greatest of respect, bks.

Sportives are a great way of ensuring you get out to train and maintain your fitness without the need to race.

IMO they're a total nightmare to most other road users, inc other cyclists that have some idea of how to behave on the roads, and the regularity of them in my neck of the woods mean that all cyclists are hated regardless.

I drove back the same way as a big on in Kent last week, it was appalling, shocking riding, very poor choice of route from the orgs too, not good.

I don't know about Sportives, but I have noticed some pretty awful riding recently. I was behind a group of three the other week and one bloke seemed unable to stay on the correct side of the rode. He was almost wiped out by a car as he went over a blind humped back bridge on the wrong side and seemed competely oblivious to the fact that the car had to take to the verge to avoid him. He was back on the wrong side again on the next climb, which was also blind in places. Utter stupidity. I've also seen some large group rides with riders all over the road travelling at slow speeds and making it incredibly hard for cars to pass. While I expect to be treated as if i have a right to be on the road I also think that cyclists need to exercise a modicum of common sense and consideration.

[MC Bodge]

Kermit power said:

Any time I get to ride 100 miles a week, it means I've commuted to work and back three times, which is time I'd otherwise spend on the train and walking to/from the stations, so dead time anyway...the weekends are largely consumed by the kids.

And that is the situation for many of us.

I used to be a keen mountain biker and mountaineer/hill runner, but the riding:travel time ratio is now mostly incompatible with my current situation.

Riding is now Commuting and occasional early morning rides, and (hot tip for you!) riding one-way when we go somewhere in the car as a family.

Running is at lunchtime, pre-breakfast or late at night.

Kermit power said:

One advantage of Strava is that people can see how they rank against others without having to ride at the same time as them, which addresses the above issue.

Exactly. It's a bit of fun, but a good way to gauge fitness and improvements.

Of course, somebody with the perfect cycling physical attributes, no job, wife or children and loads of free time to train, who weighs their food and rides an uber-fast TT bike will be able to devote their waking hours to KOM gathering, but so what?

[chrisga]

MC Bodge said:

Of course, somebody with the perfect cycling physical attributes, no job, wife or children and loads of free time to train, who weighs their food and rides an uber-fast TT bike will be able to devote their waking hours to KOM gathering, but so what?

Or they just get hooked on this... http://www.digitalepo.com/

[Devil2575]

MC Bodge said:

Of course, somebody with the perfect cycling physical attributes, no job, wife or children and loads of free time to train, who weighs their food and rides an uber-fast TT bike will be able to devote their waking hours to KOM gathering, but so what?

They also tend to be really st company because cycling is all they do so all they talk about

Not to mention the fact that (tongue firmly in cheek) they'll die sad and lonely as they've never taken the time to actually have a family

[okgo]

I think badly run sportives are probably quite rare, bar the routes some chose, but it's the people that ride them that seem to momentarily forget the rules of the road because there are so many others about they think it's OK to ride like clowns.

I think if they marketed them differently it would certainly push more people to get their competitive kick in a proper environment, such as TT, or a race etc. But the sprint segments, medal avg speeds etc (which are laughably inclusive) do nothing to help separate the lines between fun and competition which I think is why there are so many of them coming through and slowly the race scene is dying as there are not enough people organising events (and yes my club organise events before I get that line...).

Also, lets not even get onto the fact that a sportive is essentially no different to joining a club and going on a club run. I was a member of one of the largest clubs in the UK, the atmosphere on a big ride was great, the riding was much better, and I think so many people would find everything they want from cycling by joining a club vs being an individual entering sportive events. Anyway, that is just my view, I've done a couple of sportives over the years, A wiggle one and L2B, but I found going out with a club a much nicer way of seeing a county and having some fun.

Edited by okgo on Thursday 21st May 11:07

[ewenm]

Devil2575 said:

Strava means I can get an idea of where I am at pace wise in relation to other riders.

As long as you recognise it's only a subset of other riders.

For example, I did a run at the weekend and Strava gave me various top-10 segment rankings. Now I *know* I'm nowhere near the top-10 fastest people to run those segments, particularly because the run I did was actually a race and I came 20th on the day! I'm just top-10 of the subset of runners who upload to Strava.

I guess I'm saying Strava is useful for measuring personal progress but gives a skewed vision of position/fitness relative to others. Hence I don't get upset about others taking KOMs/CRs. Usually when I get a "Joe Bloggs stole your CR" notification, I go and give kudos to the person's activity.

Of course, the counter-argument could be that some good Strava users don't race, so racing isn't a good measure of relative fitness either. I find that quite unlikely in running, maybe it's more likely in cycling given the apparent entry-barriers to racing. Then you have the discussion about race routes and how to equalize them - RunBritain now have a handicap system for courses to indicate which are fast and which are slow.

One last thing - short flat segments, what's the point?! If a flat segment is less than 400m for running or 1km for cycling it's irrelevant IMO. Climbs are different - short segments make more sense there as some climbs are short and sharp or the terrain makes it an obvious segment/effort.

[MC Bodge]

Devil2575 said:

MC Bodge said:

Of course, somebody with the perfect cycling physical attributes, no job, wife or children and loads of free time to train, who weighs their food and rides an uber-fast TT bike will be able to devote their waking hours to KOM gathering, but so what?

They also tend to be really st company because cycling is all they do so all they talk about

Not to mention the fact that (tongue firmly in cheek) they'll die sad and lonely as they've never taken the time to actually have a family

Harsh, but there is an element of truth in that!

...or. alternatively, they did have a family until they got fed up Dad's devotion to cycling/running/triathlon

[Gruffy]

okgo said:

I think if they marketed them differently it would certainly push more people to get their competitive kick in a proper environment, such as TT, or a race etc.

In theory I'm an ideal candidate for racing. Strong competitive urges, loved the thrill of the battle in kart racing days and really love circuit driving, passable fitness on the bike and (in the past at least) relatively fearless. Maybe I'm getting soft at 35 but the perceived risk-reward balance means I'm unlikely to choose that over closed-road sportives and a bit of Strava action. If I can't be encouraged into racing then something's probably broken somewhere.