Discussion
Strava is OK. It's mainly (for me) a means to accurately record my mileage etc. I used to use a basic Cateye computer, and write up a cycling diary. Strava (or Garmin Connect, or a host of others that are available) saves me the bother of scribbling notes in a book I'll never read, and allows me to pick out choice data such as 'longest ride' and 'biggest climb', whilst keeping separate records for each bike.
Yes, I've got a couple of (minor) KOMs, and yes, if I lose one, I'll give it a crack next time I ride that way, but mainly it's for me. What matters most, and what brings the biggest helping of ego-fluff, is, and has always been, a 'PR'. Me, riding faster than I've ridden before, that's what fires me up. And as I get older, checking to see that, even if I don't get a PR, my segment times are still within a respectable distance of the younger me who set those PRs.
The community aspect of Strava is nice too. I can give 'Kudos' to the okgos, the Dizeees, the Gruffys and the MadDads of this world for what (to me at least) seem pretty impressive achievements. But at the same time, I can find people doing far shorter rides at much slower speeds, just starting out as cyclists, or returning after many years, and I can try to encourage them with 'Kudos' too. I can also crib from other peoples' routes to discover new and interesting places through which I can ride.
There is a darker side to Strava, when obsession takes the place of common sense ( http://road.cc/content/news/69272-strava-countersu... ) but most people are fairly sensible about it, I find.
ETA: This... http://www.digitalepo.com/skata.php ...linked from the DigitalEPO site, did make me giggle though. 'Corporate' Strava does take itself far too seriously sometimes.
Yes, I've got a couple of (minor) KOMs, and yes, if I lose one, I'll give it a crack next time I ride that way, but mainly it's for me. What matters most, and what brings the biggest helping of ego-fluff, is, and has always been, a 'PR'. Me, riding faster than I've ridden before, that's what fires me up. And as I get older, checking to see that, even if I don't get a PR, my segment times are still within a respectable distance of the younger me who set those PRs.
The community aspect of Strava is nice too. I can give 'Kudos' to the okgos, the Dizeees, the Gruffys and the MadDads of this world for what (to me at least) seem pretty impressive achievements. But at the same time, I can find people doing far shorter rides at much slower speeds, just starting out as cyclists, or returning after many years, and I can try to encourage them with 'Kudos' too. I can also crib from other peoples' routes to discover new and interesting places through which I can ride.
There is a darker side to Strava, when obsession takes the place of common sense ( http://road.cc/content/news/69272-strava-countersu... ) but most people are fairly sensible about it, I find.
ETA: This... http://www.digitalepo.com/skata.php ...linked from the DigitalEPO site, did make me giggle though. 'Corporate' Strava does take itself far too seriously sometimes.
Edited by yellowjack on Thursday 21st May 11:39
ewenm said:
As long as you recognise it's only a subset of other riders.
For example, I did a run at the weekend and Strava gave me various top-10 segment rankings. Now I *know* I'm nowhere near the top-10 fastest people to run those segments, particularly because the run I did was actually a race and I came 20th on the day!
I'm just top-10 of the subset of runners who upload to Strava.
You're right which is why I always think of it as a percentage rather than an absolute postion. For example, I did a run at the weekend and Strava gave me various top-10 segment rankings. Now I *know* I'm nowhere near the top-10 fastest people to run those segments, particularly because the run I did was actually a race and I came 20th on the day!
I'm just top-10 of the subset of runners who upload to Strava.So rather than thinking there's are only X riders on that segment who are faster than me, I think that I'm in the top 10% of riders who have done that segment.
ewenm said:
Climbs are different - short segments make more sense there as some climbs are short and sharp or the terrain makes it an obvious segment/effort.
Climbs are the only real true test on Strava because they are not subject to wind in the same way that flat segements are. Anyone can get a fast time on the flat with a 30 mph tail wind, but on a steep climb wind doesn't make anything like as much difference. Descents just tend to be a measure of how muc risk people are willing to take and i've seen some pretty bloody stupid speeds from some riders on roads where they really are just hoping there is nothing round the next bend. There's a descent near me where in order to challenge for the KOM you need to take the bottom bend on the wrong side of the road. One lad ended up getting a free ride in a helicopter to A&E not long back. MC Bodge said:
Devil2575 said:
MC Bodge said:
Of course, somebody with the perfect cycling physical attributes, no job, wife or children and loads of free time to train, who weighs their food and rides an uber-fast TT bike will be able to devote their waking hours to KOM gathering, but so what?
They also tend to be really s
t company because cycling is all they do so all they talk about 
Not to mention the fact that (tongue firmly in cheek) they'll die sad and lonely as they've never taken the time to actually have a family
...or. alternatively, they did have a family until they got fed up Dad's devotion to cycling/running/triathlon
I know a few blokes who seem to have incredibly patient wives and I have wondered if they are finding company elsewhere...
Devil2575 said:
ewenm said:
Climbs are different - short segments make more sense there as some climbs are short and sharp or the terrain makes it an obvious segment/effort.
Climbs are the only real true test on Strava because they are not subject to wind in the same way that flat segements are. Anyone can get a fast time on the flat with a 30 mph tail wind, but on a steep climb wind doesn't make anything like as much difference. Descents just tend to be a measure of how muc risk people are willing to take and i've seen some pretty bloody stupid speeds from some riders on roads where they really are just hoping there is nothing round the next bend. There's a descent near me where in order to challenge for the KOM you need to take the bottom bend on the wrong side of the road. One lad ended up getting a free ride in a helicopter to A&E not long back. 
WinstonWolf said:
Devil2575 said:
ewenm said:
Climbs are different - short segments make more sense there as some climbs are short and sharp or the terrain makes it an obvious segment/effort.
Climbs are the only real true test on Strava because they are not subject to wind in the same way that flat segements are. Anyone can get a fast time on the flat with a 30 mph tail wind, but on a steep climb wind doesn't make anything like as much difference. Descents just tend to be a measure of how muc risk people are willing to take and i've seen some pretty bloody stupid speeds from some riders on roads where they really are just hoping there is nothing round the next bend. There's a descent near me where in order to challenge for the KOM you need to take the bottom bend on the wrong side of the road. One lad ended up getting a free ride in a helicopter to A&E not long back. One thing you never hear cyclist saying: "I like wind"
Devil2575 said:
You're right which is why I always think of it as a percentage rather than an absolute postion.
So rather than thinking there's are only X riders on that segment who are faster than me, I think that I'm in the top 10% of riders who have done that segment.
Same here. When I first logged on to Strava, I was looking for top 33% on segments, I'm now looking to get into the top 10% on segments.So rather than thinking there's are only X riders on that segment who are faster than me, I think that I'm in the top 10% of riders who have done that segment.
Deriding sportives as if they somehow reduce racing is like saying there'd be more club racing if track days didn't exist. It's clearly wrong.
The issue i see is that in an awful lot of clubs, the racers are very elitist and completely up their own arses. I tried 3 clubs before finding a great one that's really inclusive - but part of the reason it's so great and friendly is that the hardcore racers do their own thing and leave the rest alone. When you hear people looking down at the club tters because they only tt and don't race, then the main assumption is that those people are probably that dedicated to the sport because no-one wants to go with them to the pub instead..,
The issue i see is that in an awful lot of clubs, the racers are very elitist and completely up their own arses. I tried 3 clubs before finding a great one that's really inclusive - but part of the reason it's so great and friendly is that the hardcore racers do their own thing and leave the rest alone. When you hear people looking down at the club tters because they only tt and don't race, then the main assumption is that those people are probably that dedicated to the sport because no-one wants to go with them to the pub instead..,
I was talking about this the other day with a club mate who happens to also be a BC commissare. Road races have police and council approval usually. They also have accredited marshals and motorcycle escorts.
Sportives these days have none. A few weekends back over here there were three sportives on overlapping routes all on the same day. To make matters worse one of them overlapped with a stretch of road being used by a road race! Note again that the road race organisers had made all the necessary arrangements with the police etc.
Nothing wrong with sportives, but they need to be brought under some kind of control. I'd be all for more European style gran fondos.
Crits aren't the crashfest people expect. If you ride like a douche, or position yourself badly, there's a good chance you will be brought down/bring someone else down, but if you pay attention you will be fine.
I've raced about 10 crits this year ranging from 4th cat only to E/1/2/3/4 and only crashed once. That race (a 3/4 at Lea Valley) was cancelled shortly after due to another crash.
This is my first season and I'm absolutely loving it. If you're thinking about it, just do it!
Sportives these days have none. A few weekends back over here there were three sportives on overlapping routes all on the same day. To make matters worse one of them overlapped with a stretch of road being used by a road race! Note again that the road race organisers had made all the necessary arrangements with the police etc.
Nothing wrong with sportives, but they need to be brought under some kind of control. I'd be all for more European style gran fondos.
Crits aren't the crashfest people expect. If you ride like a douche, or position yourself badly, there's a good chance you will be brought down/bring someone else down, but if you pay attention you will be fine.
I've raced about 10 crits this year ranging from 4th cat only to E/1/2/3/4 and only crashed once. That race (a 3/4 at Lea Valley) was cancelled shortly after due to another crash.
This is my first season and I'm absolutely loving it. If you're thinking about it, just do it!
Gruffy said:
Maybe I'm getting soft but crashing in only 10% of races doesn't appeal.
Haha! I was thinking the same thing. It's a bit like when i was househunting in Manchester and the agent was gleeful that no-one in that road had been burgled for at least a year. If that was exceptional, i wanted no part of it!Not sure if you've ridden lea valley but it's a fairly tight circuit which has a racing line that doesn't follow the circuit. A Guy on the front sat up and took a drink on one of the straights, the guy behind collected him and a domino effect ensued. I was on the opposite side of the road and got caught out by someone overreacting ahead and had nowhere to go. I won't be racing a 3/4 there again. I'll give it another go once I've reached 3rd though as it's a fantastic track.
In comparison I've only seen three crashes in any of the races I've been in this year. Two of them were in that same race, the other was a silly touch of wheels that didn't damage anyone or their bikes.
If you pick a technical circuit like Cyclopark or Hog Hill you should be fine as the bunch gets strung out. It's when the circuit is too easy that you have problems as the bunch sits in waiting for the sprint. 4th cats get a bad name but if you start in a 4th cat only race you should be fine. There's one at cyclopark this Saturday in fact.
In comparison I've only seen three crashes in any of the races I've been in this year. Two of them were in that same race, the other was a silly touch of wheels that didn't damage anyone or their bikes.
If you pick a technical circuit like Cyclopark or Hog Hill you should be fine as the bunch gets strung out. It's when the circuit is too easy that you have problems as the bunch sits in waiting for the sprint. 4th cats get a bad name but if you start in a 4th cat only race you should be fine. There's one at cyclopark this Saturday in fact.
Ponk said:
I was talking about this the other day with a club mate who happens to also be a BC commissare. Road races have police and council approval usually. They also have accredited marshals and motorcycle escorts.
Sportives these days have none. A few weekends back over here there were three sportives on overlapping routes all on the same day. To make matters worse one of them overlapped with a stretch of road being used by a road race! Note again that the road race organisers had made all the necessary arrangements with the police etc.
Nothing wrong with sportives, but they need to be brought under some kind of control. I'd be all for more European style gran fondos.
Crits aren't the crashfest people expect. If you ride like a douche, or position yourself badly, there's a good chance you will be brought down/bring someone else down, but if you pay attention you will be fine.
I've raced about 10 crits this year ranging from 4th cat only to E/1/2/3/4 and only crashed once. That race (a 3/4 at Lea Valley) was cancelled shortly after due to another crash.
This is my first season and I'm absolutely loving it. If you're thinking about it, just do it!
Agree with you here, crashes are made out to be much more prolific than they actually are I think. More people are going to share the stories of crashes in races, than they are going to share the many that pass without incident. Sportives these days have none. A few weekends back over here there were three sportives on overlapping routes all on the same day. To make matters worse one of them overlapped with a stretch of road being used by a road race! Note again that the road race organisers had made all the necessary arrangements with the police etc.
Nothing wrong with sportives, but they need to be brought under some kind of control. I'd be all for more European style gran fondos.
Crits aren't the crashfest people expect. If you ride like a douche, or position yourself badly, there's a good chance you will be brought down/bring someone else down, but if you pay attention you will be fine.
I've raced about 10 crits this year ranging from 4th cat only to E/1/2/3/4 and only crashed once. That race (a 3/4 at Lea Valley) was cancelled shortly after due to another crash.
This is my first season and I'm absolutely loving it. If you're thinking about it, just do it!
Also my first season racing, and I've raced about 12 times this year so far, with 4 of those as a 4th Cat at Hillingdon, rest of them a combination of 3rds, 2/3's, and a couple of E123 crits, haven't crashed yet *knocks wood loudly*. Have seen crashes in several races, but not all. I think if you ride aware, take a bit of care most people who are half decent at throwing a bike about will be fine.
Edited by whatleytom on Friday 22 May 09:13
I don't often do Sportives, for a variety of reasons, what makes me laugh though is a subset of riders who refer to them as "races"
For example someone I know, says his son is doing a bike race near London, then a bike race in Wales. The son also referred to them as "races" when I asked further it turns out they are just standard Sportives. I have met quite a few people like that.
Like most, I'd be very keen to race but I don't want to enter unless I can give it 100%, with 2 kids (14 & 16) and a new baby, no chance!! 2 years time I am going to give some form of competition a go, although I'm brilliant at 2 minutes flat out power and short climbs/Sprints , so so at everything else!
For example someone I know, says his son is doing a bike race near London, then a bike race in Wales. The son also referred to them as "races" when I asked further it turns out they are just standard Sportives. I have met quite a few people like that.
Like most, I'd be very keen to race but I don't want to enter unless I can give it 100%, with 2 kids (14 & 16) and a new baby, no chance!! 2 years time I am going to give some form of competition a go, although I'm brilliant at 2 minutes flat out power and short climbs/Sprints , so so at everything else!
okgo said:
What is the appeal of a sportive over a club run for people then?
IF they took away all grading, and didn't bother timing the event and publishing the 'results' would people still do them?
I think so yes. Loads of people in my club do them (and Ive done a couple) who dont care about the timing and just see it as a nice day out on the bike somewhere different. Most of these people just want a social ride and arent interested in any sort of competition.IF they took away all grading, and didn't bother timing the event and publishing the 'results' would people still do them?
I dont see the point of doing one thats on your doorstep though, you need to travel to somewhere you wouldnt normally go.
Yeah of course.. it's a marked route somewhere different, often with a bunch of mates. Very much like a club run in many ways, but a change from hammering the same routes all the time.
Timing's nice especially if you go back and do it another day, don't think any of the ones I've done order the results by timing thought I may be wrong.. never checked tbh.
Racing is racing, and a different thing. Do TT's and Tri's, like the idea of road racing (bigger 'stage' type racing), but honestly don't know where to get started, and probably don't have the time. Short circuit racing.. nah, I can't afford to be crashing / breaking bike or me when I have other longer term plans / big races scheduled.
Timing's nice especially if you go back and do it another day, don't think any of the ones I've done order the results by timing thought I may be wrong.. never checked tbh.
Racing is racing, and a different thing. Do TT's and Tri's, like the idea of road racing (bigger 'stage' type racing), but honestly don't know where to get started, and probably don't have the time. Short circuit racing.. nah, I can't afford to be crashing / breaking bike or me when I have other longer term plans / big races scheduled.
When under 18 I did a few crits, loads of 10mile TT's, raced cross country MTB, raced downhill MTB. As an adult I've raced downhill MTB and now returned to TT's.
Cars I did between 5 and 10 track days each year for about 12 years, now given up as have the mates I did it with some have moved on to racing, we all felt like we were going to fast for track days and wanted to dice with each other a bit more than rules allow.
My feeling about the whole racing thing though is too many people take them selves far too seriously and are far to much up their own arses, race to win or not at all types and the 'I'm better than you types' who are often way too aggressive and will happily bend the rules as much as possible.
TT are great because you are out on your own and it makes no difference to anyone else how you do at the end of the day. Downhill MTB is the same as effectively they are just off road downhill TT's.
Sportives never done one before but entered two coming up, I'm hoping they will attract people who don't take themselves too seriously but also want to try and get a decent time.
Cars I did between 5 and 10 track days each year for about 12 years, now given up as have the mates I did it with some have moved on to racing, we all felt like we were going to fast for track days and wanted to dice with each other a bit more than rules allow.
My feeling about the whole racing thing though is too many people take them selves far too seriously and are far to much up their own arses, race to win or not at all types and the 'I'm better than you types' who are often way too aggressive and will happily bend the rules as much as possible.
TT are great because you are out on your own and it makes no difference to anyone else how you do at the end of the day. Downhill MTB is the same as effectively they are just off road downhill TT's.
Sportives never done one before but entered two coming up, I'm hoping they will attract people who don't take themselves too seriously but also want to try and get a decent time.
okgo said:
What is the appeal of a sportive over a club run for people then?
IF they took away all grading, and didn't bother timing the event and publishing the 'results' would people still do them?
The sportive organiser providing results is largely a waste when the vast majority of participants will be on Strava. In the UK at least that seems to be true. I've ridden a couple of European events and the Strava use there appears to be much lower.IF they took away all grading, and didn't bother timing the event and publishing the 'results' would people still do them?
For me a sportive isn't to do with the timing though. It's about riding in new locations. My club tends to do variations on the same routes. Rides are fun because they're social but it can get a bit repetitive.
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