Discussion
Been looking at getting a GPS device for use with Strava etc. I'd like a watch style one so I can use it for running too. Ideally under £200 as it's a birthday present.
There seem to be dedicated running GPS watches like the cheaper forerunners, then expensive multi sport ones (Garmin fenix), then more "lifestyle" type things like the Garmin Vivoactive. Not sure how that would fare mountain biking though. There is also the 310 which is a chunky beast and seems quite old.
The only one that seems to do running and cycling that is under £200 is the forerunner 610, but that seems to be an older model. Can I use something like a Forerunner 220/225 to record bike rides and change the activity once the ride has been uploaded to the computer?
Bit confused as to how all these things work- any advice?
There seem to be dedicated running GPS watches like the cheaper forerunners, then expensive multi sport ones (Garmin fenix), then more "lifestyle" type things like the Garmin Vivoactive. Not sure how that would fare mountain biking though. There is also the 310 which is a chunky beast and seems quite old.
The only one that seems to do running and cycling that is under £200 is the forerunner 610, but that seems to be an older model. Can I use something like a Forerunner 220/225 to record bike rides and change the activity once the ride has been uploaded to the computer?
Bit confused as to how all these things work- any advice?
There are actually two, quite different, possible sources for the elevation data shown on Strava.
Where your gpx file includes it - because your logging device has a barometric altimeter - Strava will use that data. Where there is no elevation in the gpx file - because your logging device has no sensor - Strava calculates the elevation figures by overlaying your route on its own elevation base map.
Devices with barometric altimeters are nice because they can show real time gradient during your ride. e.g. currently climbing at 8%, or whatever. However changes in background atmospheric pressure during a long ride - a front moving in, for example, - can cause the total ascent to be quite a way off. For this reason, Strava has the facility to replace the gpx file supplied elevation data with the base map calculated elevation it would use for files without the data. To do this, click on the little '(?)' next to 'elevation' in your activity's summary.
Where your gpx file includes it - because your logging device has a barometric altimeter - Strava will use that data. Where there is no elevation in the gpx file - because your logging device has no sensor - Strava calculates the elevation figures by overlaying your route on its own elevation base map.
Devices with barometric altimeters are nice because they can show real time gradient during your ride. e.g. currently climbing at 8%, or whatever. However changes in background atmospheric pressure during a long ride - a front moving in, for example, - can cause the total ascent to be quite a way off. For this reason, Strava has the facility to replace the gpx file supplied elevation data with the base map calculated elevation it would use for files without the data. To do this, click on the little '(?)' next to 'elevation' in your activity's summary.
You can change the activity after uploading to Strava, but I've settled on using separate, dedicated devices. A cheap forerunner for running and a mid-range Edge for riding. Larger screen, cycle specific metrics, bar/stem mount, even basic navigation sold the bike specific Edge to me. For running, I wanted light and small and, of course, it had to be wrist wearable.
The expensive, larger multi-sport watches would be great for triathletes/duathletes, who want to record a single event comprising both sports. But for doing one OR the other, dedicated devices gets my vote.
The expensive, larger multi-sport watches would be great for triathletes/duathletes, who want to record a single event comprising both sports. But for doing one OR the other, dedicated devices gets my vote.
hmmm yes I take the point that dedicated devices would be best but I can't really justify the cost of two separate things, and the cheapest running watches don't have some of the features I'd find pretty useful so two devices would put me over budget. I don't think I do enough cycling to warrant another £150 for an Edge.
I see lots of the previous models can be had at big discounts- do the new models offer much more? Are there any support issues with buying a previous gen model? (i.e. forerunner 220 vs. 225, 610 vs. 620).
I see lots of the previous models can be had at big discounts- do the new models offer much more? Are there any support issues with buying a previous gen model? (i.e. forerunner 220 vs. 225, 610 vs. 620).
Without a heart rate monitor, any calorie / effort assessment is a 'wild assed guess', and utterly meaningless, irrespective of the software
With a heart rate monitor, it graduates to being a SWAG - a scientific wild assed guess. Somewhat more meaningful and useful.
With a power meter it becomes reliable data, but not necessarily terribly useful, and a fairly high price to get the data.
Without wishing to wind anyone up, the MTB route may be harder terrain, but in my experience, mountainbiking means a gentle spin up a hill, bit of looking around/chatting, roll down, etc, whereas a road ride tends to be a solid effort for a few hours with a (brief) cake stop somewhere in the middle. Hour for hour the MTB is probably easier.. but maybe that's just me
With a heart rate monitor, it graduates to being a SWAG - a scientific wild assed guess. Somewhat more meaningful and useful.
With a power meter it becomes reliable data, but not necessarily terribly useful, and a fairly high price to get the data.
Without wishing to wind anyone up, the MTB route may be harder terrain, but in my experience, mountainbiking means a gentle spin up a hill, bit of looking around/chatting, roll down, etc, whereas a road ride tends to be a solid effort for a few hours with a (brief) cake stop somewhere in the middle. Hour for hour the MTB is probably easier.. but maybe that's just me
upsidedownmark said:
Without wishing to wind anyone up, the MTB route may be harder terrain, but in my experience, mountainbiking means a gentle spin up a hill, bit of looking around/chatting, roll down, etc, whereas a road ride tends to be a solid effort for a few hours with a (brief) cake stop somewhere in the middle. Hour for hour the MTB is probably easier.. but maybe that's just me
I think it probably is! Agree that the Sunday morning MTB with the guys tends to be less effort but I only ride on my own and have to fit it in before work so there's no standing around. I also live in the Chilterns so (especially with the wet weather we've had recently) some of the bridleways are pretty steep/tough going. Don't get me wrong, my road ride is also pretty challenging but I do this to get/stay fit so it's fair to say I'm motivated.Either way, I'm a data-monkey, I'd prefer to have no data than inaccurate data!
910xt? Proper run/cycle modes, sub 200 if you look around?
Previous versions fine - I had a 910 & edge 810, now Fenix3 and the 810; only really have the edge for a proper display/enough data fields when on the bike, a 500 would be fine too.
Big thing with the newer ones is the ephemeris caching and the connection to your phone; means no standing around / putting it on the window ledge before you go out to acquire satellites - usually locks on in less time than it took to read this sentence. Also the bluetooth/wifi means it just automagically uploads everything when I stop the session, no messing.
I do seem to recall dcrainmaker suggesting that the lates (vivoactive?) platform with GPS plus IQ connect (apps) was potentially a game changer for the kinda thing you're looking for, but don't really know much about it.
Previous versions fine - I had a 910 & edge 810, now Fenix3 and the 810; only really have the edge for a proper display/enough data fields when on the bike, a 500 would be fine too.
Big thing with the newer ones is the ephemeris caching and the connection to your phone; means no standing around / putting it on the window ledge before you go out to acquire satellites - usually locks on in less time than it took to read this sentence. Also the bluetooth/wifi means it just automagically uploads everything when I stop the session, no messing.
I do seem to recall dcrainmaker suggesting that the lates (vivoactive?) platform with GPS plus IQ connect (apps) was potentially a game changer for the kinda thing you're looking for, but don't really know much about it.
Was properly nailing it last night, mainly trying to drop someone from my wheel a lot of the time, but even with a normalised power of around 340W and an average on my garmin which displays real everything including stopping at lights etc I still have an AP of 250W I still only avg'd 18.8mph according to Strava for my commute (headwind granted).
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
okgo said:
Was properly nailing it last night, mainly trying to drop someone from my wheel a lot of the time, but even with a normalised power of around 340W and an average on my garmin which displays real everything including stopping at lights etc I still have an AP of 250W I still only avg'd 18.8mph according to Strava for my commute (headwind granted).
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
Change the wheels, you need the ones that make you fly.I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
okgo said:
Was properly nailing it last night, mainly trying to drop someone from my wheel a lot of the time, but even with a normalised power of around 340W and an average on my garmin which displays real everything including stopping at lights etc I still have an AP of 250W I still only avg'd 18.8mph according to Strava for my commute (headwind granted).
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
I noticed I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
Dizeee said:
Two miles to a train station isn't a commute <snip>
I know what you are trying to say, and I know you're not that kind of person, but damn that comes across as very sneery and elitist. Trust me, cycling with a broken shoulder and trying to heal from a broken hip (achieved at the same time), 2 miles each way is quite enough of a commute.Don1 said:
I know what you are trying to say, and I know you're not that kind of person, but damn that comes across as very sneery and elitist. Trust me, cycling with a broken shoulder and trying to heal from a broken hip (achieved at the same time), 2 miles each way is quite enough of a commute.
To be fair, you've probably taken it a bit out of context. He's right, 2 miles on a bike would probably not be classed as much of a commute, people in full suits do more than that on boris bikes from the stations each day - obviously a broken shoulder is going to make anything considerably more difficult....okgo said:
Was properly nailing it last night, mainly trying to drop someone from my wheel a lot of the time, but even with a normalised power of around 340W and an average on my garmin which displays real everything including stopping at lights etc I still have an AP of 250W I still only avg'd 18.8mph according to Strava for my commute (headwind granted).
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
20mph would be a pretty good average for that part of the world in a car...I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
One thing I have found regarding getting accurate elevation from a device with a barometric altimeter is to calibrate the device to a known elevation before you set off (find the elevation of your house for instance). If the ride had an elevation gain and loss within a few feet of I would be happy that the elevation data is relatively good. Obviously this only works if your ride starts and ends in the same place. A little bit more work would have to be done if you start and finish in different places.
IroningMan said:
20mph would be a pretty good average for that part of the world in a car...
Oh, you'd never manage it in a car, not even close. I would imagine that in a car if you left Temple (my office) at 6, and I left at 6 heading to Kingston that I would be home by the time the car perhaps made it to Putney, maybe not even that far during rush hr, its got even worse with the building work on the new bike lanes (ironic).simonF10 said:
One thing I have found regarding getting accurate elevation from a device with a barometric altimeter is to calibrate the device to a known elevation before you set off (find the elevation of your house for instance). If the ride had an elevation gain and loss within a few feet of I would be happy that the elevation data is relatively good. Obviously this only works if your ride starts and ends in the same place. A little bit more work would have to be done if you start and finish in different places.
Fine for brief rides, but the atmospheric pressure at that point won't necessarily be the same when you return if you're gone for any length of time. The longer you ride for the greater the chance it won't be. Each mb (or hectopascal, as we're now meant to call them) represents about 27 feet at sea level. It's not unknown for there to be a 10mb change or more during a the course of a day when there's a front approaching...okgo said:
I don't think its possible at the minute if you leave at normal times to average 20mph from town to somewhere like where I live, too much traffic and too many roadworks.
This average speed banter: is this not just crossed wires with one of you measuring point-to-point and the other measuring moving average speed?Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff