The Rt. Hon. 'Mathew' of London

[will_]

Mr Gear said:

will_ said:

It's funny - I've seen quite a few cyclists call others out about jumping red lights, yet I've never ever seen a motorcyclist call out another biker for riding down the cycle lanes or sitting in the ASLs.....

That's because you would have no way of knowing if I reported something to the police or not. Unless you are hacking my emails or phone calls, how would you know?

Erm.... what? I was simply stating that, unlike the cyclist in the OP, I have never seen a motorcyclist do the same type of thing to his brethren. Nothing to do with reportings to the old bill!

[will_]

fulham911club said:

walm said:

I like motorcyclists in the ASLs.
It leaves less room for the cars and unlike the cars the motorcyclists tend to do a good job of keeping out of the way.

So Stig if you ever pull up next to me in the ASL we can shout at RLJers together.

Heh - Will - see this. From the thread on worst road users you get all upset with motorcycles being in the ASL ....

I'd cross reference the thread but I don't know how to do it....

See what? He's expressed his opinion, I have expressed mine. I'd never be arrogant enough to purport to speak for all cyclists. Walm has raised this point previously, and I've also aired my views. However, irrelevant to any opinions, the fact remains that motorbikes are not allowed to sit in the ASLs and are technically running red lights by doing so - something you state is "dangerous"....

[Kermit power]

will_ said:

Mr Gear said:

will_ said:

It's funny - I've seen quite a few cyclists call others out about jumping red lights, yet I've never ever seen a motorcyclist call out another biker for riding down the cycle lanes or sitting in the ASLs.....

That's because you would have no way of knowing if I reported something to the police or not. Unless you are hacking my emails or phone calls, how would you know?

Erm.... what? I was simply stating that, unlike the cyclist in the OP, I have never seen a motorcyclist do the same type of thing to his brethren. Nothing to do with reportings to the old bill!

To be fair, have you tried having a conversation with someone wearing a motorbike helmet? If both people are wearing one, I'd imagine they would have to use sign language to remonstrate!

[will_]

Kermit power said:

will_ said:

Mr Gear said:

will_ said:

It's funny - I've seen quite a few cyclists call others out about jumping red lights, yet I've never ever seen a motorcyclist call out another biker for riding down the cycle lanes or sitting in the ASLs.....

That's because you would have no way of knowing if I reported something to the police or not. Unless you are hacking my emails or phone calls, how would you know?

Erm.... what? I was simply stating that, unlike the cyclist in the OP, I have never seen a motorcyclist do the same type of thing to his brethren. Nothing to do with reportings to the old bill!

To be fair, have you tried having a conversation with someone wearing a motorbike helmet? If both people are wearing one, I'd imagine they would have to use sign language to remonstrate!

I managed to hear the abuse from one leather-clad cretin as he carved between me and two other cyclists (from the wrong lane), even though he was holding the horn down at the same time - so it can be done!

[Stig]

will_ said:

the fact remains that motorbikes are not allowed to sit in the ASLs and are technically running red lights by doing so

How so? Surely you only cross the light when you pass the line at the signals?

[will_]

Stig said:

will_ said:

the fact remains that motorbikes are not allowed to sit in the ASLs and are technically running red lights by doing so

How so? Surely you only cross the light when you pass the line at the signals?

For all other vehicles except cycles, the first line is their "stop" line.

[Kermit power]

will_ said:

Stig said:

will_ said:

the fact remains that motorbikes are not allowed to sit in the ASLs and are technically running red lights by doing so

How so? Surely you only cross the light when you pass the line at the signals?

For all other vehicles except cycles, the first line is their "stop" line.

It's only legal for any other vehicle to be stopped in the ASL if the light was green when they entered it, and they have subsequently been unable to exit it before the light turns red. This isn't too unusual for 4+ wheeled vehicles, but pretty bloody unlikely for a motorbike.

[walm]

Stig said:

How so? Surely you only cross the light when you pass the line at the signals?

Stig - you see that large green box with a BIcycle painted on it??

Not for MOTORcycles!

The ASL - Advanced Stop Line is for cyclists only.
It is always preceeded by the regular stop line - for everyone else.

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

[Stig]

walm said:

Stig - you see that large green box with a BIcycle painted on it??

Not for MOTORcycles!

The ASL - Advanced Stop Line is for cyclists only.
It is always preceeded by the regular stop line - for everyone else.

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

Err.. you may want to read some of my previous replies. Whilst it may be unbelievable to accept, I do, in fact, stay out of ASLs.

I was just interested to hear a technical explanation of how it constitutes running a red light (it's been a while since I passed my test).

So wind your neck in please.

[walm]

Stig said:

Err.. you may want to read some of my previous replies. Whilst it may be unbelievable to accept, I do, in fact, stay out of ASLs.

Sorry. Mis-read your OP.

I thought you were in the box with Matt and the now-identified WjPrince.

http://www.lfgss.com/post2481668-1544.html

[Kermit power]

walm said:

Sorry. Mis-read your OP.

I thought you were in the box with Matt and the now-identified WjPrince.

http://www.lfgss.com/post2481668-1544.html

Well there's a surprise! He's posting about it on the fixie forum!

[Mr Gear]

walm said:

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

...Which is a shame, because when there is a bus parked in the ASL, I can't get my motorbike to the front of the queue safely!

On a more serious note, when on my motorcycle, I avoid using the ASL, but sometimes, if you have just filtered past a load of vehicles, it can be the only safe place to go when you get to the front of the queue (as it is our right to do of course!).

[walm]

Kermit power said:

Well there's a surprise! He's posting about it on the fixie forum!

Note that the whole thread is actually dedicated to bhing about bad cyclists.

He was appropriately lambasted.

[g_stacey]

Theres a guy who commutes along the Old Kent Road in the mornings, and also reminds me when I jump/roll a red light.
Doesn't bother me. What does, and he'll have someone off soon, is if anyone overtakes him he jumps on there wheel without looking behind. Cant' hold the wheel any way.

[Kermit power]

walm said:

Kermit power said:

Well there's a surprise! He's posting about it on the fixie forum!

Note that the whole thread is actually dedicated to bhing about bad cyclists.

He was appropriately lambasted.

Ah, he was indeed. I hereby apologise to the wider membership of said fixie forum!

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

walm said:

Kermit power said:

Well there's a surprise! He's posting about it on the fixie forum!

Note that the whole thread is actually dedicated to bhing about bad cyclists.

He was appropriately lambasted.

Ah, he was indeed. I hereby apologise to the wider membership of said fixie forum!

dont ever apologise to fixie riders, they deserve all the abuse they get.... nice to see that he got a slating from the rest of the dayglo rim club...

[Stig]

walm said:

Sorry. Mis-read your OP.

I thought you were in the box with Matt and the now-identified WjPrince.

http://www.lfgss.com/post2481668-1544.html

No probs Not sure if WjPrince is the same bloke as Surray Quays to Greenwich would be the wrong direction? This was embankment on the stretch from Blackfriars to Westminster - but I guess it may be the same 'RED' Matthew

From that post:

"You are not in charge of the road and it's users.
You are not the police.
F*** off."

Great attitude!

[Stig]

walm said:

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

This made for interesting reading on the matter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/29/...

[will_]

Stig said:

walm said:

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

This made for interesting reading on the matter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/29/...

The most worrying element of that article - which I've heard repeated elsewhere - is "some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as somewhat disproportionate."

Since when was it the job of the police to decide whether the penalty for an offence is "disproportionate" and therefore decide not to enforce that particular law?

I accept that the issues surrounding ASLs are not completely understood either by the police or the general public, but it is a sad indicator of the polices' attitude to cyclists that whilst they (and by that I mean the City of London police) are often seen specifically targeting red-light jumping cyclists (and so they should), they are yet to hand out a ticket to anyone infringing upon an ASL....

[Stig]

My interest, further piqued, found this study by TFL re the (ab)use of ASLs by road users:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Behaviour-a...

Of interest re. my earlier point about the technicalities of it constituting 'running a red light' is section 5.3 - Red Light Violation:



Please note, I'm not trolling here, just highlighting the confusion that exists regarding the use of ASLs (same with my Grauniad link) - I apologise for highlighting the main offenders (cough), but it helps explain why generalisations are made against cyclists in this regard.

I'm staying out of them either way - heaven help me should I accidently bump into a PH peddler

Think I'll stick a PH smiley on my topbox just so you can keep tabs on me