Road bike wheels - I'm confused!
Discussion
I know it's another 'what wheels' thread, but bear with me!
I'm currently riding on the PlanetX B wheels that came fitted to my Nanolight.
I mostly do Alpine riding, so light weight is priority number 1, I think?
I'm guessing that stiffness + light weight = best for climbing, so I can steer clear of aero rims.
I'm very tempted by the cheap / light superstar wheels: http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cP... and I'm ready to pull the trigger on weight alone, but I can't help but consider other options at a slightly higher price point.
I could stretch to Shimano RS-80's or Fulcrum 3's, but are you just paying for the name?
Why do the very popular Mavic SL's weight 250g more, offer no aero advantage and cost 3x more?? I understand that they might have slightly longer lasting bearings, slightly stiffer construction, etc... but surely not enough to justify cost?!
Superstar come with a 2 year guarantee, so what am I missing?
I'm currently riding on the PlanetX B wheels that came fitted to my Nanolight.
I mostly do Alpine riding, so light weight is priority number 1, I think?
I'm guessing that stiffness + light weight = best for climbing, so I can steer clear of aero rims.
I'm very tempted by the cheap / light superstar wheels: http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cP... and I'm ready to pull the trigger on weight alone, but I can't help but consider other options at a slightly higher price point.
I could stretch to Shimano RS-80's or Fulcrum 3's, but are you just paying for the name?
Why do the very popular Mavic SL's weight 250g more, offer no aero advantage and cost 3x more?? I understand that they might have slightly longer lasting bearings, slightly stiffer construction, etc... but surely not enough to justify cost?!
Superstar come with a 2 year guarantee, so what am I missing?
You come to the right place to ask....
You'll get a mountain of good advice as I did (I'll post pics when mine's back from the shop, I ended up with a bit more than a wheel upgrade).
On an unlimited budget you can have both with ENVE wheels; but they are mega money (although a beauty to behold and in the shop I was close to pulling the trigger).
You'll get a mountain of good advice as I did (I'll post pics when mine's back from the shop, I ended up with a bit more than a wheel upgrade).
On an unlimited budget you can have both with ENVE wheels; but they are mega money (although a beauty to behold and in the shop I was close to pulling the trigger).
Forget aero rims for the mountains - no point
Plenty of opinionated "advice" here:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40...
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40...
As this is PH's I'll suggest Ksyrium Elites which are obviously out of your planned budget
as others have said, aero rims are irrelevant on climbs and you are right in that weight and stiffness are your obvious requirements. Sets like the fulcrum 3s are a lovely all rounder wheel but try not to be led down the "less spokes = less weight" mentality.
a well built set of mavic open pros on campag super record 32 hole hubs will be around 1200gs without tyres and tubes and campag hubs are still some of the best rolling hubs money can buy. there are some really nice huubs from japan available but they are pricey.
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Campagnolo-Super-Record-Hu...
thus it might be worth talking to a wheelbuilder like Paul Hewitt or www.wheelsmith.co.uk to see if they can do you something special, custom builds are lovely things and are often more reliable than factory wheels. they have the advantage of having a higher spoke count so remain strong but are also easier to repair.
if weight is the biggest issue, a set of ambrosio excellight tubs would be nice, they are widely used on the continental circuit and the pros still use them on occassions so they cant be that bad. you need to be a bit brave to go to tubs though.
a well built set of mavic open pros on campag super record 32 hole hubs will be around 1200gs without tyres and tubes and campag hubs are still some of the best rolling hubs money can buy. there are some really nice huubs from japan available but they are pricey.
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Campagnolo-Super-Record-Hu...
thus it might be worth talking to a wheelbuilder like Paul Hewitt or www.wheelsmith.co.uk to see if they can do you something special, custom builds are lovely things and are often more reliable than factory wheels. they have the advantage of having a higher spoke count so remain strong but are also easier to repair.
if weight is the biggest issue, a set of ambrosio excellight tubs would be nice, they are widely used on the continental circuit and the pros still use them on occassions so they cant be that bad. you need to be a bit brave to go to tubs though.
Aero trumps weight in anything under 7%/8% hills FYI...
That said, if you want a light set of wheels, then Pro Lite Bracciano's are decent for the money, and have a slightly more aero profile than the Shimano/fulcrum range.
I'd certainly look at the Dura ace wheels, or the RS80's which have the same rim with a slightly lower grade hubs.
That said, if you want a light set of wheels, then Pro Lite Bracciano's are decent for the money, and have a slightly more aero profile than the Shimano/fulcrum range.
I'd certainly look at the Dura ace wheels, or the RS80's which have the same rim with a slightly lower grade hubs.
pablo said:
do you really think so? i thought we all agreed that aero rims were pretty much pointless at speeds <20mph?
Have a look at this - think its quite good reading - http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/engineering/tech-pres... (read the aero vs weight bit)Aero wheels make a difference at lower speeds too, its just not as obvious I think, but in a hill of fairly shallow gradient, every little helps. Box Hill is a good example of where being aero clearly pays as my times up there when I've had my deep wheels are quicker.
okgo said:
pablo said:
do you really think so? i thought we all agreed that aero rims were pretty much pointless at speeds <20mph?
Have a look at this - think its quite good reading - http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/engineering/tech-pres... (read the aero vs weight bit)Aero wheels make a difference at lower speeds too, its just not as obvious I think, but in a hill of fairly shallow gradient, every little helps. Box Hill is a good example of where being aero clearly pays as my times up there when I've had my deep wheels are quicker.
On the hills, stiffness beats aero any day... So Ksyrium Elites beat RS80 and Fulcrums by a mile.
Did you read the link? Its pretty detailed.
The pro's in the hills are slightly different to you and I and the hills they tackle will often be a lot steeper and longer than the ones we're talking about.
The Olympic event is a good example, its hilly by our standards, 10 laps of Box Hill it will be, but in the test event have a look at the majority of riders wheels...
The pro's in the hills are slightly different to you and I and the hills they tackle will often be a lot steeper and longer than the ones we're talking about.
The Olympic event is a good example, its hilly by our standards, 10 laps of Box Hill it will be, but in the test event have a look at the majority of riders wheels...
Isn't Box Hill just a very small part of the route?... meaning the losses from flex on the hill will be made up by the higher speed flat cruising for the rest of it?
It may be worth remembering that the OP is looking for wheels for Alpine riding. This should not be confused with the terrain down Pall Mall.
It may be worth remembering that the OP is looking for wheels for Alpine riding. This should not be confused with the terrain down Pall Mall.
Not really, the Box Hill loop is the majority of the loop, they will spend 15 miles of the race going up Box itself, and I'd bet they use aero wheels still.
Where have you got stiffness from, and can you tell me what power loss you'd expect to lose through it?
Stiffness is almost not relevant, so wouldn't get hung up on that. Those pro lite wheels I mentioned above have been called flexy by the review brigade, didn't seem to stop my clubmate putting 400watts through them in a 21.17 TT on a road bike last week (that's more than most riders can manage for even 3 minutes)
What goes up and all that, I'd favor aero wheels all the time, because they're quicker in most situations, quicker in shallow hills, quicker on the flat, quicker downhill, they also tend to be very stiff (although unless sprinting it makes little difference). An all round winner!
Anyway back to the task -
OP you'll certainly not go wrong with RS80's, or any of the fulcrum range. At this price I'd say that they're all quite similar, so pick the ones you like the look of and that suit your exact budget
But if you were going to spend more money, I'd certainly recommend trying to get something with an aero aspect, 30mm rims will offer something at least over the super shallow ones you've shortlisted.
Where have you got stiffness from, and can you tell me what power loss you'd expect to lose through it?
Stiffness is almost not relevant, so wouldn't get hung up on that. Those pro lite wheels I mentioned above have been called flexy by the review brigade, didn't seem to stop my clubmate putting 400watts through them in a 21.17 TT on a road bike last week
(that's more than most riders can manage for even 3 minutes)What goes up and all that, I'd favor aero wheels all the time, because they're quicker in most situations, quicker in shallow hills, quicker on the flat, quicker downhill, they also tend to be very stiff (although unless sprinting it makes little difference). An all round winner!
Anyway back to the task -
OP you'll certainly not go wrong with RS80's, or any of the fulcrum range. At this price I'd say that they're all quite similar, so pick the ones you like the look of and that suit your exact budget
But if you were going to spend more money, I'd certainly recommend trying to get something with an aero aspect, 30mm rims will offer something at least over the super shallow ones you've shortlisted.
Edited by okgo on Tuesday 10th July 15:55
It may be worth having a chat with Derek at Wheelsmith.co.uk about a custom build before pulling the trigger; he'll ask you questions about your size, what riding you do and then give you an honest answer about what wheelset would suit you best.
He does builds that use the Novatech superlight hub which is very, very good for the low cost. If you go this route and you'll have something that won't weigh that much for the money, and be tailored to you personally.
As for the aero debate, agree that they work better in most situations than most people realise - its worth remembering that we have very little truly alpine esq terrain here in the UK!
However IMO you do need to buy carefully if you do go this route - the cheaper offerings tend to use an aluminium brake track and can weigh upwards of 2000gr+. This may not seem much more when viewed on paper, as the wheels you mentioned are both circa 1600gr, but the extra weight tends to be in the rim so makes them more sluggish to accelerate and climb.
If you are set on off the shelf, you really can't go wrong with either the Fulcrum or Shimano at that price point.
He does builds that use the Novatech superlight hub which is very, very good for the low cost. If you go this route and you'll have something that won't weigh that much for the money, and be tailored to you personally.
As for the aero debate, agree that they work better in most situations than most people realise - its worth remembering that we have very little truly alpine esq terrain here in the UK!
However IMO you do need to buy carefully if you do go this route - the cheaper offerings tend to use an aluminium brake track and can weigh upwards of 2000gr+. This may not seem much more when viewed on paper, as the wheels you mentioned are both circa 1600gr, but the extra weight tends to be in the rim so makes them more sluggish to accelerate and climb.
If you are set on off the shelf, you really can't go wrong with either the Fulcrum or Shimano at that price point.
Raven Flyer said:
It sounds like you know more than all of us and the pro teams put together.
Perhaps you should tell the teams that stiff wheels are a waste of time on the climbs... and that your mate can put out 400watts.
I am sure they would take your advice.
You still haven't told me what stiffness has to do with it? Sprinters perhaps would want the stiffest possible set up, I agree, but for everyone else I'm interested to know why, and what loses you see through flex...Perhaps you should tell the teams that stiff wheels are a waste of time on the climbs... and that your mate can put out 400watts.
I am sure they would take your advice.
The pro teams use shallow wheels for mountain stages yep, weight is the reason for that. But then on stages where its a mixture of stuff most people still go for aero
Just was trying to see why people automatically assumed shallow wheels are ALWAYS better if you're going up hill. They will be if the hills are steep and long, but I think even though the OP is doing alpine riding he'd benefit from a rim with some aero focus for the flat bits and the downhills whilst not really losing anything in the uphills, and indeed in the long drags, still getting that aero advantage.
Agree with Raoul in that if you do want to go aero you'll need to spend more, but if you can, I think its worth the extra
As suspected this thread has helped / not helped depending on your viewpoint...
Keeping up PH tradition, I've just struck a deal a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels
Now if everyone could agree that they are much better than Fulcrum 3's and all the other options I was looking at this morning, that would be lovely!
Many thanks guys, I think..
Keeping up PH tradition, I've just struck a deal a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels
Now if everyone could agree that they are much better than Fulcrum 3's and all the other options I was looking at this morning, that would be lovely!
Many thanks guys, I think..
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff