The Wattage Thread
Discussion
E65Ross said:
Just out of question okgo - how often do you FTP test? And do you do training cycles, in general (eg 3-4 weeks on, 1 week recovery)? I guess it largely depends on upcoming races etc... But in general?
During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
I don't, we look at NP from races, I don't think testing would be for me, I could never motivate for it and I see it serves little purpose when I ride hard often in road races anyway, easy to draw out the trends. 1/2% that you mention could be powermeter error, too small to be meaningful IMO. Yes, there are harder weeks and easier ones, never recovery weeks though. I don't generally do any rides at under Z2 NP as I only usually have about ten hours to play with. During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
okgo said:
E65Ross said:
Just out of question okgo - how often do you FTP test? And do you do training cycles, in general (eg 3-4 weeks on, 1 week recovery)? I guess it largely depends on upcoming races etc... But in general?
During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
I don't, we look at NP from races, I don't think testing would be for me, I could never motivate for it and I see it serves little purpose when I ride hard often in road races anyway, easy to draw out the trends. 1/2% that you mention could be powermeter error, too small to be meaningful IMO. Yes, there are harder weeks and easier ones, never recovery weeks though. I don't generally do any rides at under Z2 NP as I only usually have about ten hours to play with. During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
RE power meter inaccuracies.... Definitely could be. However, I've done numerous sessions now lasting a couple of hours and having a Normalised Power not THAT far off my FTP (eg 2 hours with IF of 0.93 where, excluding the warm up and warm down, may give a 1hr 40 IF of 0.95-6) on legs that weren't exactly rested and I wasn't absolutely blown. The fact that's been possible several times probably suggests I am getting stronger.
okgo said:
Fair enough - James is making sure his neck can take it more than his legs, certainly told me its not the usual cycling event!
I got taken out at the velodrome in January and earned myself some bad whiplash, which I'm still struggling to shake off. The neck is now my biggest weakness for the race, so that's my focus too. My understanding of the race is that pace has a minor influence. The real trick is smart navigation, racing efficiency, recovery ability and simple staying on the bike as much as possible. I suspect the ability to process fuel (and fat-metabolism) will be the cap for most riders. Still, it doesn't hurt to be getting fitter and faster while I'm working on those.
E65Ross said:
okgo said:
E65Ross said:
Just out of question okgo - how often do you FTP test? And do you do training cycles, in general (eg 3-4 weeks on, 1 week recovery)? I guess it largely depends on upcoming races etc... But in general?
During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
I don't, we look at NP from races, I don't think testing would be for me, I could never motivate for it and I see it serves little purpose when I ride hard often in road races anyway, easy to draw out the trends. 1/2% that you mention could be powermeter error, too small to be meaningful IMO. Yes, there are harder weeks and easier ones, never recovery weeks though. I don't generally do any rides at under Z2 NP as I only usually have about ten hours to play with. During recovery weeks, do you keep the intensity the same but dial down the frequency, or down the intensity as well? Looking at trainerroad plans, and remembering back to my running days, I'm thinking of roughly halving my TSS for recovery weeks, but still doing one intense session, but rather than making it something like 2 hours 170tss, make it 1 hour 85-90tss or so...
RE power meter inaccuracies.... Definitely could be. However, I've done numerous sessions now lasting a couple of hours and having a Normalised Power not THAT far off my FTP (eg 2 hours with IF of 0.93 where, excluding the warm up and warm down, may give a 1hr 40 IF of 0.95-6) on legs that weren't exactly rested and I wasn't absolutely blown. The fact that's been possible several times probably suggests I am getting stronger.
My problem, I think, is that I'm definitely built more towards threshold work, and not anaerobic. Based on my current FTP, I tend to find threshold and low-mid VO2 max intervals do-able, but anaerobic intervals are always working me harder....so what I mean is that if there's a session that's supposed to really tire you out that's largely Threshold/VO2 max, then I'm not too bad, but if there's a session which supposedly has a similar IF but is more anaerobic in nature, then I struggle a lot more.
Whilst I'd like to be more powerful, for the type of riding I do, I rarely go above 150% FTP and most of my time is spent much below that, with the odd VO2 effort on hills etc.....so this is the area I should target most, but maybe add a little more anaerobic training.
Will see what the next FTP test yields, I'll train hard next week, then a recovery week, and do it on the following Monday.
E65Ross said:
On the subject of this, I have just done a warm up, followed by Sufferfest "there is no try" plus "angels" which are both intense sessions. I did There is no try at 100% and the same for angels, except for the middle "climb" of 8mins long I put it to 101%, then for the last 8min climb (of 3) 102% for the 1st 4mins and then 103% for the final 4mins, and even did an extra little sprint at the end. Don't get me wrong, I'm working hard, but not "blowing out my *rse" which is kind of what I'm after with sufferfest! Must suggest an FTP test is in order.
My problem, I think, is that I'm definitely built more towards threshold work, and not anaerobic. Based on my current FTP, I tend to find threshold and low-mid VO2 max intervals do-able, but anaerobic intervals are always working me harder....so what I mean is that if there's a session that's supposed to really tire you out that's largely Threshold/VO2 max, then I'm not too bad, but if there's a session which supposedly has a similar IF but is more anaerobic in nature, then I struggle a lot more.
Whilst I'd like to be more powerful, for the type of riding I do, I rarely go above 150% FTP and most of my time is spent much below that, with the odd VO2 effort on hills etc.....so this is the area I should target most, but maybe add a little more anaerobic training.
Will see what the next FTP test yields, I'll train hard next week, then a recovery week, and do it on the following Monday.
I think okgo is right in what he'saying with the tests. It's easy to swing it and believe you've made huge gains when really you're just pushing harder. When I asked my coach about it he just said use the 10 mile TT or 25 mile TT as your marker. On the TT bike we already know the losses are 5-7%. I was trying pretty hard at the weekend but it wasn't a tasting blood/turning myself inside out session, I really need that edge to push. My problem, I think, is that I'm definitely built more towards threshold work, and not anaerobic. Based on my current FTP, I tend to find threshold and low-mid VO2 max intervals do-able, but anaerobic intervals are always working me harder....so what I mean is that if there's a session that's supposed to really tire you out that's largely Threshold/VO2 max, then I'm not too bad, but if there's a session which supposedly has a similar IF but is more anaerobic in nature, then I struggle a lot more.
Whilst I'd like to be more powerful, for the type of riding I do, I rarely go above 150% FTP and most of my time is spent much below that, with the odd VO2 effort on hills etc.....so this is the area I should target most, but maybe add a little more anaerobic training.
Will see what the next FTP test yields, I'll train hard next week, then a recovery week, and do it on the following Monday.
Sufferfest is good but I found that a lot of the intervals are too short. 'Hell Hath No Fury' was always the one that caught me out, especially when using an optimistic FTP on TR. Maybe you need something like 'Revolver', training in and around sweet spot with a few really hard efforts might help unlock things for you?
First thing to do though is a test, most of the workouts when you set your FTP up to the correct level should be pretty tough. I don't like the RPE crap, it just gives me an excuse to slack off
I did a 53mile 2hr 50min ride over the weekend, having not done that much in the last few weeks FTP is guessed at 260.
I certainly felt it in the legs, but starting to feel a little better. FTP should maybe be a little higher as the TSS is 255.
222 W Avg Power
901 W Max Power
260 W Max Avg Power (20 min)
52% L / 48% R L/R Balance
249 W Normalized Power® (NP®)
0.959 Intensity Factor® (IF®)
256.7 Training Stress Score®
260 W FTP Setting
2,209 kJ Work
I need to give my local 10TT a go as I have no rollers or turbo to try an accurate FTP test on.
I certainly felt it in the legs, but starting to feel a little better. FTP should maybe be a little higher as the TSS is 255.
222 W Avg Power
901 W Max Power
260 W Max Avg Power (20 min)
52% L / 48% R L/R Balance
249 W Normalized Power® (NP®)
0.959 Intensity Factor® (IF®)
256.7 Training Stress Score®
260 W FTP Setting
2,209 kJ Work
I need to give my local 10TT a go as I have no rollers or turbo to try an accurate FTP test on.
ALawson said:
I did a 53mile 2hr 50min ride over the weekend, having not done that much in the last few weeks FTP is guessed at 260.
I certainly felt it in the legs, but starting to feel a little better. FTP should maybe be a little higher as the TSS is 255.
222 W Avg Power
901 W Max Power
260 W Max Avg Power (20 min)
52% L / 48% R L/R Balance
249 W Normalized Power® (NP®)
0.959 Intensity Factor® (IF®)
256.7 Training Stress Score®
260 W FTP Setting
2,209 kJ Work
I need to give my local 10TT a go as I have no rollers or turbo to try an accurate FTP test on.
Blimey, that's some IF and TSS for just shy of 3 hours!I certainly felt it in the legs, but starting to feel a little better. FTP should maybe be a little higher as the TSS is 255.
222 W Avg Power
901 W Max Power
260 W Max Avg Power (20 min)
52% L / 48% R L/R Balance
249 W Normalized Power® (NP®)
0.959 Intensity Factor® (IF®)
256.7 Training Stress Score®
260 W FTP Setting
2,209 kJ Work
I need to give my local 10TT a go as I have no rollers or turbo to try an accurate FTP test on.
I'm on a recovery week before I try another FTP test next Monday. Last week I racked up over 730tss, or over 910 of you include the Sunday before.... So quite a lot. I do suspect I'll get an extra couple of watts for my FTP.
I think an IF of 0.95 or so is possible for 3 hours if you are fresh for it.... I've done just over 2 hours at 0.94 before on not so fresh legs, that included a warm up and warm down though.... But I was pretty tired afterwards!
Today was a relatively easy 0.7 IF and just 60tss ride home from work (drove in with the bike, car at work, and I'll cycle in tomorrow).... Which was 20 miles at a 17mph average).
I rarely push too hard when cycling out and about, but when I want to push harder I do struggle to get high % of FTP unless I'm on a climb or mild incline, for some reason I just seem to want to slack off on the flats, and on the downs it's always harder to hit higher watts.
E65Ross said:
I rarely push too hard when cycling out and about, but when I want to push harder I do struggle to get high % of FTP unless I'm on a climb or mild incline, for some reason I just seem to want to slack off on the flats, and on the downs it's always harder to hit higher watts.
Think most people will suffer this unless competing. 
Dowks said:
My first time trying club 10 this evening (Farnham RC H10/8)
24.06 on my road bike which I was pleased with and 317W for 20 mins which was a PB for me. My first time with a number on and a much preferable way to test FTP than I have done before!
For sure, just never try as hard when its not a race!24.06 on my road bike which I was pleased with and 317W for 20 mins which was a PB for me. My first time with a number on and a much preferable way to test FTP than I have done before!
I'll be on Bentley on Saturday for a 25!
Dowks said:
Hope you have weather as good as we did today
Who is the 25 with on Sat? I like the 10/8 course, bit of pacing and being a bit more thoughtful about aero may help me also - 25 is the next challenge after a few more 10's
I hope so too, unilkely though I would imagine!Who is the 25 with on Sat? I like the 10/8 course, bit of pacing and being a bit more thoughtful about aero may help me also - 25 is the next challenge after a few more 10's
Errr, I think its with Farnborough and Camberley CC - its an open event vs club though. There are plenty on that course over the year, and as they go its pretty simple and fairly quiet.
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