The Wattage Thread
Discussion
I thought I'd share my issues with training, hopefully you can all avoid a similar trap. I had 7 days in Tenerife to really push on, the second day plan was low cadence, 55-60rpm, z4+ seated intervals. All there is in Tenerife are hills therefore I did 90mins of this, actually less as after 40mins of 300w my back was annoying me. Fast forward to today and the prognosis is I have a weak core, inactive glutes which after heavily increasing my FTP and pushing low cadences has me in a bind. I knew the intervals were a bit weird and although quite liked the idea thought it was risky. The trip was ruined really, limited miles due to back issues and although I got a few pb's it was nothing like as good as it could have been. The only silver lining is that perhaps this has highlighted something which has been historically weak. Therefore, and I tell myself, I'll be a bit stronger when it is sorted. As much as I have focused on my legs it's time to look at what they are connected to. What I was told today made a lot of sense. We'll have to see what it all entails. The main thing now is keeping some sort of form with the limited hours.
I used to very rarely stand up on steep hills and push under 70rpm on 20% gradients (sometimes even 60rpm) but now I think standing is much better when it gets steep.
To build your core, avoid sit ups like the plague.... Get doing planks, side bridges and "bird dog" / quadruped. Google Stuart McGill.
To build your core, avoid sit ups like the plague.... Get doing planks, side bridges and "bird dog" / quadruped. Google Stuart McGill.
E65Ross said:
Probably be worth doing another FTP test but I wouldn't worry about the difference between power and HR zones, HR zones are not that great for training because it takes time to get up. You'll rarely get into VO2 max zone, and doing anaerobic work you'll never get there really, simply because you can't sustain it long enough for the HR to adapt.
My HR zones don't always correlate to my power zones, but training with power is much, much better....so make sure you get that right.
Your max average power is lower than the rides NP. you ideally need to have a consistent power to best get a realiable result. The fact your NP is higher than your peak 20mins power means your FTP will be AT LEAST 234, the fact you did this from no warm up, and over 1hr 30....I would hazard a guess that, actually 241W of your FTP setting is possibly a little low.
I haven't had chance to do another FTP test yet but this weekends ride was much better in terms on numbers. I used Average power as the main metric to watch on my ride and kept that in Z2. My NP and Max Average were both equal (192) so much more consistent across the 3 hours. In RPE terms it felt right. Avg HR zone was 1.3 which shows the limitation of that. Previously I would have been pushing into to mid Z2 which clearly would have been too hard. I felt much less wiped out after yesterdays ride which was good - especially as in 8 weeks I will have to ride further than that and then run a half marathon after.My HR zones don't always correlate to my power zones, but training with power is much, much better....so make sure you get that right.
Your max average power is lower than the rides NP. you ideally need to have a consistent power to best get a realiable result. The fact your NP is higher than your peak 20mins power means your FTP will be AT LEAST 234, the fact you did this from no warm up, and over 1hr 30....I would hazard a guess that, actually 241W of your FTP setting is possibly a little low.
Finding it hard to keep power constant on even small hills. Still a bit over weight so I guess as that comes down it will normalise.
Bought the Power Meter Handbook by Joel Friel to make sense of all the numbers.
yonex said:
Granfondo said:
Better let Joe Friel know! 
Well if Joe Friel told me to do what I have just done and it led to the same consequences he'd be told to f
k off as well. I think coaches get a bit carried away sometimes tbh. All for pain but not bad pain that leads to time off the bike.Latest wattage related musings for anyone interested. :-)
https://off-the-back.com/2016/05/07/ixworth-autops...
https://off-the-back.com/2016/05/07/ixworth-autops...
Messing around, I told my Fiancee to try doing 300w for a minute on the turbo, then have a minute easy pedaling.
She did it 10 times, and I'm very surprised by it! Gonna try and push her into a crit race..........
I did 4 x 4 minutes @ 400w the other day. It was death.
She did it 10 times, and I'm very surprised by it! Gonna try and push her into a crit race..........
I did 4 x 4 minutes @ 400w the other day. It was death.
Edited by lukefreeman on Wednesday 25th May 19:29
I know this is probably how long is a piece of string type question but how much should I expect my FTP to increase by over 1 month?
I just did another FTP test and my 20 min average has gone up by 10w, so now 260 giving me an FTP of 247, up from 241.
Most of my training has been Z2 efforts with one 1 interval session per week. The main reason for this is when I asked the coach for a training plan for the Half Ironman I was just hoping to get round and not go for a fast time.
It has gone up which I am glad about but no idea if that is a good improvement or not.
I just did another FTP test and my 20 min average has gone up by 10w, so now 260 giving me an FTP of 247, up from 241.
Most of my training has been Z2 efforts with one 1 interval session per week. The main reason for this is when I asked the coach for a training plan for the Half Ironman I was just hoping to get round and not go for a fast time.
It has gone up which I am glad about but no idea if that is a good improvement or not.
Definitely how long is a piece of string.
Firstly.... You'll get better at pacing, that alone will increase your FTP values, even though your actual FTP may not have changed.
It also depends on so many other factors such as food, sleep, stress etc.
The fitter you already are, the slower your progress will be.... Many top cyclists won't really improve their FTP much at all, but work their tits off just to maintain their FTP.
FWIW I started training with power back in September. I've improved my FTP by around 20% and was already cycling 200 miles per week or so..... But most would have been Z2 and Z3. I'm now doing lots of stuff into much higher zones, especially VO2 and threshold.
Firstly.... You'll get better at pacing, that alone will increase your FTP values, even though your actual FTP may not have changed.
It also depends on so many other factors such as food, sleep, stress etc.
The fitter you already are, the slower your progress will be.... Many top cyclists won't really improve their FTP much at all, but work their tits off just to maintain their FTP.
FWIW I started training with power back in September. I've improved my FTP by around 20% and was already cycling 200 miles per week or so..... But most would have been Z2 and Z3. I'm now doing lots of stuff into much higher zones, especially VO2 and threshold.
Thanks Ross, thought it would be. One thing having the power meter has really shown me is the my cadence was too low and I was grinding high gears. I have now focused on keeping a lower gear and keeping my cadence up so that may have given me a bit of a boost.
It has gone up so I am not to worried, especially as the bulk of my training has been about building aerobic endurance and not increasing FTP.
Plus I have only been using power for a month and this is only my 2nd FTP test so probably need a while to bed in.
It has gone up so I am not to worried, especially as the bulk of my training has been about building aerobic endurance and not increasing FTP.
Plus I have only been using power for a month and this is only my 2nd FTP test so probably need a while to bed in.
Think I'm due another FTP test soon..... I've managed to finish all the sufferfest videos I've got now and the other day I did violator and then followed that up with the long scream..... Violator was an interesting one, it was absolutely fine to start with, but you just knew looking at the graphs that it was going to hurt by the end....and it really did! But, After 6-7mins of easy spinning in Z1 I did the long scream which is a 30minute effort where you never go below 90% FTP, and the final 20 mins of that my average power was just 1 watt lower than my last 20 minute test......that is considering that there are a few "recoveries" of a few seconds each at 90% FTP so it isn't a steady state effort, AND I'd done violator just beforehand AND also I was into that last 20mins straight from the 1st 10mins of the long scream....so my legs weren't exactly box fresh. I didn't die either, although I'll confess than 6-7mins into it I was questioning my sanity, and it did hurt. There were times I was considering quitting but once I got to around 17-18mins through I managed to persevere and managed it.
I'm going to do a long ride tomorrow and something hard Sunday and take it easy next week and probably do another FTP test.
All good signs I guess
I've also read The Power Meter Handbook and I'm going to read the cyclists training bible as well....with the aim to get stronger this year and maintain over the winter and start racing next year. At the moment I'm training very hard, but with no real purpose other than fitness, and, of course, enjoyment.
I'm going to do a long ride tomorrow and something hard Sunday and take it easy next week and probably do another FTP test.
All good signs I guess
I've also read The Power Meter Handbook and I'm going to read the cyclists training bible as well....with the aim to get stronger this year and maintain over the winter and start racing next year. At the moment I'm training very hard, but with no real purpose other than fitness, and, of course, enjoyment.
Why not dip your toe in some crits or that this year?
if you get dropped, then you know what you need to focus on.. If you don't, you'll also know what you need to focus on! (For example a couple of the guys i ride with are reasonably strong : one more so than the other, who's a fraction quicker than me. However, neither of them can sprint for toffee, so need to work on that if they're going to get out of 4ths racing!)
if you get dropped, then you know what you need to focus on.. If you don't, you'll also know what you need to focus on! (For example a couple of the guys i ride with are reasonably strong : one more so than the other, who's a fraction quicker than me. However, neither of them can sprint for toffee, so need to work on that if they're going to get out of 4ths racing!)
Rolls said:
Why not dip your toe in some crits or that this year?
if you get dropped, then you know what you need to focus on.. If you don't, you'll also know what you need to focus on! (For example a couple of the guys i ride with are reasonably strong : one more so than the other, who's a fraction quicker than me. However, neither of them can sprint for toffee, so need to work on that if they're going to get out of 4ths racing!)
Therein lies my weakness, and I know it. Sprinting. My current FTP setting is around 4.3W/kg which isn't bad, but my sprinting ability doesn't match my endurance or threshold ability! I have, the last few weeks, been working on that a little by doing numerous sessions involving 130% or more of FTP, often nearer 150%. if you get dropped, then you know what you need to focus on.. If you don't, you'll also know what you need to focus on! (For example a couple of the guys i ride with are reasonably strong : one more so than the other, who's a fraction quicker than me. However, neither of them can sprint for toffee, so need to work on that if they're going to get out of 4ths racing!)
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