The Wattage Thread
Discussion
Can anyone confirm that with workouts with very short intervals the variability index doesn't work? On my session of violator, the last set was 8 reps of 5secs 190%/5secs 40% followed immediately by 6x 10secs 177%/10secs 40% immediately by 2x 15secs 155%/15secs 40% which clearly is a VERY highly variable session, but training peaks is showing a variability index of 1.00, intensity factor of around 1.13 with, obviously, my NP matching the average power for that period. Clearly..... Doing that is a LOT harder than riding at 113% for a few minutes!
I'm being robbed of some TSS
I'm being robbed of some TSS
TSCfree said:
Ross, stop fannying around with indexes, and enter a crit. You'll learn more racing and cover all the variances... Seriously it'll stand you in good stead for next year. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3tWx251Hkw
Just looked on British cycling, there is a criterium, 35mins, near me in early August....may be something to aim for...
E65Ross said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3tWx251Hkw
Just looked on British cycling, there is a criterium, 35mins, near me in early August....may be something to aim for...
Then report back with heroics!E65Ross said:
I've also read The Power Meter Handbook and I'm going to read the cyclists training bible as well.
If its anything like the Triathletes training bible I recommend making some notes and marking some pages to read twice. Its a great book but is very heavy on jargon and there is too much information to absorb in one sitting. It also makes a lot more sense if you use Training Peaks.
944fan said:
E65Ross said:
I've also read The Power Meter Handbook and I'm going to read the cyclists training bible as well.
If its anything like the Triathletes training bible I recommend making some notes and marking some pages to read twice. Its a great book but is very heavy on jargon and there is too much information to absorb in one sitting. It also makes a lot more sense if you use Training Peaks.E65Ross said:
okgo said:
Rolls said:
If your w/kg is 4.2 you'll go well...
Mine is a chunk underthat! (about 3.8 or so!)
As said get involved : its as much as learning to ride (properly) in a bunch, and hold wheels as it is about numbers!
w/kg means almost nothing in a crit.Mine is a chunk underthat! (about 3.8 or so!)
As said get involved : its as much as learning to ride (properly) in a bunch, and hold wheels as it is about numbers!
Just get stuck in and see whether it's something you want to persevere at.
If you've not ridden much in a bunch, make sure you you're confident at least riding fast chain gangs (around 20+ mph average) for your safety and that of your fellow racers.
Good luck !
I'm very much in two minds as to what to do at the moment..... Half of me wants to try racing (I'd rather longer road races to be honest) but the other half is, ashamedly, contemplating doing the Sufferfest Knighthood for charity.... The first would involve me working heavily on my power and sprinting ability, the latter would just be largely outright endurance with some threshold and maybe a little VO2 max thrown in. So clearly I can't train for both!
In the cyclists training Bible you have your base training and once your aerobic endurance is up to scratch you then do the build phase..... Now, with training peaks ALL of my longer rides have a decent efficiency factor and my pw:hr is always coupled (ie less than 5%). If this generally remains the case, is there a real need to do a base phase? If, for example, I do a build phase where I work largely on power, but still do long-ish rides once a week or so and at the beginning of winter my pw:hr is still coupled, then is there a need to do another base phase at that point?
edit - I've had a look on British cycling events and searched for road races within 50km of me, open to 4th cat riders and there are a couple of races I'd be interested in, but both are in July.....a little too soon to get myself sorted including getting a license etc. I think I'd like to see what I'm like at road races first before doing the shorter Crit races. It seems road races are far, far less frequent than crits, which are held on closed circuits. I think with this in mind, I'll look at training for the Sufferfest Knighthood for now and maybe get that done at the end of autumn/early winter (so that'll help my base a lot!!) and then come Feb or so, I'll work on my VO2 max and then power so I'll be in better shape to attemp racing.
In the cyclists training Bible you have your base training and once your aerobic endurance is up to scratch you then do the build phase..... Now, with training peaks ALL of my longer rides have a decent efficiency factor and my pw:hr is always coupled (ie less than 5%). If this generally remains the case, is there a real need to do a base phase? If, for example, I do a build phase where I work largely on power, but still do long-ish rides once a week or so and at the beginning of winter my pw:hr is still coupled, then is there a need to do another base phase at that point?
edit - I've had a look on British cycling events and searched for road races within 50km of me, open to 4th cat riders and there are a couple of races I'd be interested in, but both are in July.....a little too soon to get myself sorted including getting a license etc. I think I'd like to see what I'm like at road races first before doing the shorter Crit races. It seems road races are far, far less frequent than crits, which are held on closed circuits. I think with this in mind, I'll look at training for the Sufferfest Knighthood for now and maybe get that done at the end of autumn/early winter (so that'll help my base a lot!!) and then come Feb or so, I'll work on my VO2 max and then power so I'll be in better shape to attemp racing.
Edited by E65Ross on Saturday 11th June 17:51
E65Ross said:
I'm very much in two minds as to what to do at the moment..... Half of me wants to try racing (I'd rather longer road races to be honest) but the other half is, ashamedly, contemplating doing the Sufferfest Knighthood for charity.... The first would involve me working heavily on my power and sprinting ability, the latter would just be largely outright endurance with some threshold and maybe a little VO2 max thrown in. So clearly I can't train for both!
In the cyclists training Bible you have your base training and once your aerobic endurance is up to scratch you then do the build phase..... Now, with training peaks ALL of my longer rides have a decent efficiency factor and my pw:hr is always coupled (ie less than 5%). If this generally remains the case, is there a real need to do a base phase? If, for example, I do a build phase where I work largely on power, but still do long-ish rides once a week or so and at the beginning of winter my pw:hr is still coupled, then is there a need to do another base phase at that point?
edit - I've had a look on British cycling events and searched for road races within 50km of me, open to 4th cat riders and there are a couple of races I'd be interested in, but both are in July.....a little too soon to get myself sorted including getting a license etc. I think I'd like to see what I'm like at road races first before doing the shorter Crit races. It seems road races are far, far less frequent than crits, which are held on closed circuits. I think with this in mind, I'll look at training for the Sufferfest Knighthood for now and maybe get that done at the end of autumn/early winter (so that'll help my base a lot!!) and then come Feb or so, I'll work on my VO2 max and then power so I'll be in better shape to attemp racing.
I think you are massively overthinking things as you can easily train for both. Just do longer tempo/threshold efforts one day and then shorter VO2 max efforts the next then take a day off and perhaps do your local chain gang. When I first started racing all I did was the weekly chain gang and then 2 longer 3ish hour rides at the weekend and that was enough to get race fit from.In the cyclists training Bible you have your base training and once your aerobic endurance is up to scratch you then do the build phase..... Now, with training peaks ALL of my longer rides have a decent efficiency factor and my pw:hr is always coupled (ie less than 5%). If this generally remains the case, is there a real need to do a base phase? If, for example, I do a build phase where I work largely on power, but still do long-ish rides once a week or so and at the beginning of winter my pw:hr is still coupled, then is there a need to do another base phase at that point?
edit - I've had a look on British cycling events and searched for road races within 50km of me, open to 4th cat riders and there are a couple of races I'd be interested in, but both are in July.....a little too soon to get myself sorted including getting a license etc. I think I'd like to see what I'm like at road races first before doing the shorter Crit races. It seems road races are far, far less frequent than crits, which are held on closed circuits. I think with this in mind, I'll look at training for the Sufferfest Knighthood for now and maybe get that done at the end of autumn/early winter (so that'll help my base a lot!!) and then come Feb or so, I'll work on my VO2 max and then power so I'll be in better shape to attemp racing.
Edited by E65Ross on Saturday 11th June 17:51
If you can ride around with your local fast chaingang you would have no problem in a 4th cat race. They pretty much almost come down to a bunch sprint, so its all about positioning and working on your sprinting. I'm not sure if its any different on the mainland, but here in N.Ireland/Ireland the 4th cat races are only about 40/45miles long.
Get yourself signed up Ross and give it a go
Get yourself signed up Ross and give it a go
Never ceases to amaze me how great it is knowing power data..... After 4 weeks of pretty solid training ended with a 104 mile/7k ft climb ride I'm taking it easy this week.
Did a 18.3 mile ride today and averaged 1 watt LESS than what I averaged for my 104 mile ride (although the normalized power today was 0.695 yet the hilly ride was 0.708).....and my average over the 104 was 17.0mph and on today was 18.3....
Had my bike fully serviced today and was asking about local clubs and I'm going to pop along over the next couple of weeks on a Sunday and see how things go. Route today was pretty flat (only 765ft climb in 18.3 miles) but did that average speed really, really easily (hence the pretty low IF!
Did a 18.3 mile ride today and averaged 1 watt LESS than what I averaged for my 104 mile ride (although the normalized power today was 0.695 yet the hilly ride was 0.708).....and my average over the 104 was 17.0mph and on today was 18.3....
Had my bike fully serviced today and was asking about local clubs and I'm going to pop along over the next couple of weeks on a Sunday and see how things go. Route today was pretty flat (only 765ft climb in 18.3 miles) but did that average speed really, really easily (hence the pretty low IF!
Ride with the local group went well, quite enjoyed it but wouldn't do it every week.... Not because it was too difficult but because an endurance ride turned into an unstructured interval workout. Good I guess for a bit of practice for races but not best to do every week instead of your endurance ride.
Just out of curiosity.... When doing long endurance rides (eg 4-6 hours, or even more) what sort of intensity factor do you guys often get, or do you just ride according to how you feel, and find one day it might be 0.75 or more, and others 0.65 or so?
I tend to aim for about 0.700, give or take but not sure if this is "too hard" or not for base miles. I am currently doing around 70 miles on my longer rides, give or take and that usually takes approx 4 hours, so around 200TSS or so.
Also..... I am going to take a good 2, possibly 3 weeks of gentle cycling soon just to recharge the batteries a bit as I've been doing lots consistently for a while and plan to try the phased training as in the cyclists training Bible..... But do I need to do a base phase, when my base fitness is already going to be good (my pw:hr is always under the 5% mark on endurance rides.
Just out of curiosity.... When doing long endurance rides (eg 4-6 hours, or even more) what sort of intensity factor do you guys often get, or do you just ride according to how you feel, and find one day it might be 0.75 or more, and others 0.65 or so?
I tend to aim for about 0.700, give or take but not sure if this is "too hard" or not for base miles. I am currently doing around 70 miles on my longer rides, give or take and that usually takes approx 4 hours, so around 200TSS or so.
Also..... I am going to take a good 2, possibly 3 weeks of gentle cycling soon just to recharge the batteries a bit as I've been doing lots consistently for a while and plan to try the phased training as in the cyclists training Bible..... But do I need to do a base phase, when my base fitness is already going to be good (my pw:hr is always under the 5% mark on endurance rides.
Edited by E65Ross on Wednesday 10th August 20:06
okgo said:
Cancellara 440w AP for TT yesterday, 470w NP - beast
That's insane. How do you get those stats though? He did absolutely monster it yesterday, great ride from him and what a way to go out....Olympic champion. Reminds me of my old middle-distance running hero from my running days....Hicham El Guerrouj.okgo said:
Cancellara 440w AP for TT yesterday, 470w NP - beast
Was a awesome ride, loved watching he quite frankly tearing it up ... talking on chat groups etc i wasn't the only one wanting him to take gold rather than the Kenyan . Also shows when it comes to the whole Aero & Position subject testers can bang on about all day ... Its quite simple ... When you got the legs you win .
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