The Wattage Thread
Discussion
E65Ross said:
A fair point, but I generally like working hard and seeing how good I can (or can't 
) get. Most of the races/TT's around here seem to be on days I work 
Unless you work 7 days a week, there's no excuse! ) get. Most of the races/TT's around here seem to be on days I work 
There are road races around here Tuesday and Thursday evenings, Saturdays and Sundays ... all within an hour of me, some closer. 3 crit circuits in 1 hour and another two within 1.5 hours. Oh, and I live up North ...
But yes, your motivation will be low. Mine is pretty low, last race at the end of August and won't be doing anything until March at the very earliest, so I am going to enjoy getting fat for another month with some steady and enjoyable rides before I get with the program.
JEA1K said:
E65Ross said:
A fair point, but I generally like working hard and seeing how good I can (or can't ) get. Most of the races/TT's around here seem to be on days I work
Unless you work 7 days a week, there's no excuse! ) get. Most of the races/TT's around here seem to be on days I work There are road races around here Tuesday and Thursday evenings, Saturdays and Sundays ... all within an hour of me, some closer. 3 crit circuits in 1 hour and another two within 1.5 hours. Oh, and I live up North ...
But yes, your motivation will be low. Mine is pretty low, last race at the end of August and won't be doing anything until March at the very earliest, so I am going to enjoy getting fat for another month with some steady and enjoyable rides before I get with the program.
z4RRSchris said:
I will keep riding on the weekends, and will race the winter LVVP series. At the moment its still light enough for Regents in the mornings but when it gets cold and dark i cant be arsed with that. indoor sessions are 2 hours a time three days a week. total of 10-12 hours cycling a week.
the idea is to race crit 3's and 3/4's, try and get out of cat 3. 40 points or whatever.
love to try a road race but no idea where.
I'm going to keep racing the LVVP winter series too. Not expecting to collect many points to be honest, but but still good practice and a decent training session. I'll work on strength training over winter and try to rebuild/retrain the muscles that still don't contribute. Lots of low-cadence stuff to fill in the gaps in my pedal stroke.the idea is to race crit 3's and 3/4's, try and get out of cat 3. 40 points or whatever.
love to try a road race but no idea where.
I've had three weeks off since Revolve as both bikes are laid up with mechanical problems. The final parts are due any day now so I'm hoping I'll be back on the road by the weekend. I'm going slightly nuts waiting. God knows what it's done to my power but I don't think it'll be good. The two weeks before Revolve were really light on TSS too so I've probably undone most of the year's work.
My plan is 1-2 fasted rides (turbo/Regents), 1-2 interval sessions/race and then a longer social one or audax at the weekend. I suspect I'm back to 325W @ 80kg and would like to get closer to 4.5W/kg by spring. I'm hoping there might still be some 'newbie gains' to be had by tackling those muscle imbalances.
Also very keen on road racing but it seems almost impossible in the SE without joining one of the big clubs.
Gruffy said:
I'm going to keep racing the LVVP winter series too. Not expecting to collect many points to be honest, but but still good practice and a decent training session. I'll work on strength training over winter and try to rebuild/retrain the muscles that still don't contribute. Lots of low-cadence stuff to fill in the gaps in my pedal stroke.
I've had three weeks off since Revolve as both bikes are laid up with mechanical problems. The final parts are due any day now so I'm hoping I'll be back on the road by the weekend. I'm going slightly nuts waiting. God knows what it's done to my power but I don't think it'll be good. The two weeks before Revolve were really light on TSS too so I've probably undone most of the year's work.
My plan is 1-2 fasted rides (turbo/Regents), 1-2 interval sessions/race and then a longer social one or audax at the weekend. I suspect I'm back to 325W @ 80kg and would like to get closer to 4.5W/kg by spring. I'm hoping there might still be some 'newbie gains' to be had by tackling those muscle imbalances.
Also very keen on road racing but it seems almost impossible in the SE without joining one of the big clubs.
The 3 weeks off has probably done you the word of good and you will be raring to go again!I've had three weeks off since Revolve as both bikes are laid up with mechanical problems. The final parts are due any day now so I'm hoping I'll be back on the road by the weekend. I'm going slightly nuts waiting. God knows what it's done to my power but I don't think it'll be good. The two weeks before Revolve were really light on TSS too so I've probably undone most of the year's work.
My plan is 1-2 fasted rides (turbo/Regents), 1-2 interval sessions/race and then a longer social one or audax at the weekend. I suspect I'm back to 325W @ 80kg and would like to get closer to 4.5W/kg by spring. I'm hoping there might still be some 'newbie gains' to be had by tackling those muscle imbalances.
Also very keen on road racing but it seems almost impossible in the SE without joining one of the big clubs.
I think my endurance base will be fine but I'll be interested to see how Saturday's century in the Surrey Hills feels. I'm hoping to enter a 12 hour race on Wednesday so I don't think I'll be able to fit an FTP test in before that, but I'm keen to get a benchmark soon, before starting the next phase. 10s max and a hill may be more useful benchmarks though.
Gruffy said:
I'm going to keep racing the LVVP winter series too. Not expecting to collect many points to be honest, but but still good practice and a decent training session. I'll work on strength training over winter and try to rebuild/retrain the muscles that still don't contribute. Lots of low-cadence stuff to fill in the gaps in my pedal stroke.
I've had three weeks off since Revolve as both bikes are laid up with mechanical problems. The final parts are due any day now so I'm hoping I'll be back on the road by the weekend. I'm going slightly nuts waiting. God knows what it's done to my power but I don't think it'll be good. The two weeks before Revolve were really light on TSS too so I've probably undone most of the year's work.
My plan is 1-2 fasted rides (turbo/Regents), 1-2 interval sessions/race and then a longer social one or audax at the weekend. I suspect I'm back to 325W @ 80kg and would like to get closer to 4.5W/kg by spring. I'm hoping there might still be some 'newbie gains' to be had by tackling those muscle imbalances.
You'll likely be wasting time with the weights stuff and low cadence I don't think makes any odds. What sort of imbalance are we talking?I've had three weeks off since Revolve as both bikes are laid up with mechanical problems. The final parts are due any day now so I'm hoping I'll be back on the road by the weekend. I'm going slightly nuts waiting. God knows what it's done to my power but I don't think it'll be good. The two weeks before Revolve were really light on TSS too so I've probably undone most of the year's work.
My plan is 1-2 fasted rides (turbo/Regents), 1-2 interval sessions/race and then a longer social one or audax at the weekend. I suspect I'm back to 325W @ 80kg and would like to get closer to 4.5W/kg by spring. I'm hoping there might still be some 'newbie gains' to be had by tackling those muscle imbalances.
I had five procedures on my knees between 2010-2012 and spent 4-5 years heavily guarding my knees between 30-60° flexion, where I've no cartilage in the trochlear groove (where your kneecap slides up and down). It meant I stopped using various muscles and my proprioception is very poor. Glutes don't fire properly, along with many of the smaller stabilising muscles. I'm still weak at the 30-60° angle.
I think I do still need to build some muscle but more importantly I need to re-learn how to fire the muscles. I've developed a high cadence, which is great, but I think it's masking/enabling me to avoid using the muscles fully. That's why I think some low cadence, hills and strength work will help.
I think I do still need to build some muscle but more importantly I need to re-learn how to fire the muscles. I've developed a high cadence, which is great, but I think it's masking/enabling me to avoid using the muscles fully. That's why I think some low cadence, hills and strength work will help.
Gruffy said:
I had five procedures on my knees between 2010-2012 and spent 4-5 years heavily guarding my knees between 30-60° flexion, where I've no cartilage in the trochlear groove (where your kneecap slides up and down). It meant I stopped using various muscles and my proprioception is very poor. Glutes don't fire properly, along with many of the smaller stabilising muscles. I'm still weak at the 30-60° angle.
I think I do still need to build some muscle but more importantly I need to re-learn how to fire the muscles. I've developed a high cadence, which is great, but I think it's masking/enabling me to avoid using the muscles fully. That's why I think some low cadence, hills and strength work will help.
I see. take a look at the forces involved even with low cadence stuff, its barely anything. Sounds like perhaps some actual weights, or even bodyweight (which will be far more load bearing than any low cadence stuff) would be a better bet for yourself.I think I do still need to build some muscle but more importantly I need to re-learn how to fire the muscles. I've developed a high cadence, which is great, but I think it's masking/enabling me to avoid using the muscles fully. That's why I think some low cadence, hills and strength work will help.
The glute firing is I think something all physios just spit out, they said the same to me with my bad knee.
hmmm
I ride a high cadence, around 100rpm in time trials for example, it just so happens that I'm usually riding 55 and somewhere down the bottom of the block. Someone less fit will not be able to do that, because their legs would quickly fill with lactic. Having stronger legs plays little part in any of that. As you get fitter your cadence probably isn't going to change much but you'll find you're riding larger gears and going faster.
Nothing done in a weight room is going to make you fitter. It might well help your body wholesale, and help with bringing the issues mentioned into line, but producing more watts because of bringing those things into line is still going to be marginal given the actual forces involved as so low, and your body is very good at adapting to these imbalances anyway.
I ride a high cadence, around 100rpm in time trials for example, it just so happens that I'm usually riding 55 and somewhere down the bottom of the block. Someone less fit will not be able to do that, because their legs would quickly fill with lactic. Having stronger legs plays little part in any of that. As you get fitter your cadence probably isn't going to change much but you'll find you're riding larger gears and going faster.
Nothing done in a weight room is going to make you fitter. It might well help your body wholesale, and help with bringing the issues mentioned into line, but producing more watts because of bringing those things into line is still going to be marginal given the actual forces involved as so low, and your body is very good at adapting to these imbalances anyway.
After 7 years I'm quite attuned to knee pain and riding the fine line between stressing them and over-doing things. I'll be cautiously building things up.
The plan is squats/leg press, deadlifts and lunges. Nothing fancy, just the big compound movements and a focus on perfect form. Pre-surgery I could shift ridiculous weight on the leg press. When I threw in the gym towel two years ago I could still only manage 30kg and 20kg on single leg presses. Cycling has finally added some meat to my legs and I'm hoping I'll be able to break those low plateaus.
The low cadence work may be low-force but it's task specific so it'll help with useful proprioception. With enough volume I think it should make a difference. It's very low cost too as I can combine this with Z2 fasted rides a couple of times a week. I'll supplement that with the balance board and trampoline to try and push the proprioception.
The plan is squats/leg press, deadlifts and lunges. Nothing fancy, just the big compound movements and a focus on perfect form. Pre-surgery I could shift ridiculous weight on the leg press. When I threw in the gym towel two years ago I could still only manage 30kg and 20kg on single leg presses. Cycling has finally added some meat to my legs and I'm hoping I'll be able to break those low plateaus.
The low cadence work may be low-force but it's task specific so it'll help with useful proprioception. With enough volume I think it should make a difference. It's very low cost too as I can combine this with Z2 fasted rides a couple of times a week. I'll supplement that with the balance board and trampoline to try and push the proprioception.
okgo said:
Nothing done in a weight room is going to make you fitter. It might well help your body wholesale, and help with bringing the issues mentioned into line, but producing more watts because of bringing those things into line is still going to be marginal given the actual forces involved as so low, and your body is very good at adapting to these imbalances anyway.
Even if it adds no extra watts I expect to improve conditioning for lumpy ultra-endurance efforts. Do we have The Conditioning Thread? Maybe I'm just crap at hills but I ride with guys of a similar power and weight but my physiological cost for riding hills is so much higher, yet on the flat I can ride forever. My theory/hope is that it's because I'm not able to 'cheat' by just skipping the gaps in my pedal stroke when I'm climbing.
That may well be down to muscle fibre type. On the flats if you're at or below threshold it puts more demand on slow twitch fibres. Caning up a hill is more fast twitch fibres.
Whilst you can adapt what you have to be better at one or the other, you can't change them. Hence no people specialise at certain aspects better than others.
Whilst you can adapt what you have to be better at one or the other, you can't change them. Hence no people specialise at certain aspects better than others.
Totally get that. I did type a bit about slow/fast twitch muscle fibres in the post above - as I could do with improving my sprint too - but then deleted it to avoid complicating things any further. I wasn't sure where the crossover point is though, but it would make sense if it's just over threshold. I seem to be OK up to around 375-400W (threshold is 325ish) and then I'm struggling compared to those reference riders.
I'm in a pretty similar position to you Gruffy. I've got knee issues that stopped me riding back in 2008 but I've gradually got back into cycling over the last 18 months. The problem has never quite fully gone away and I feel its holding me back a bit so I'm also planning to embark on a bit of a conditioning routine this winter. Like okgo I was always always telling people on cycling forums not to waste their time doing weights; cycling is an endurance sport, the forces are low etc. etc. so I'm being a bit of a hypocrite now! 
My vastus medialis on my left leg is definitely underdeveloped, and possibly not firing properly so I'll be focussing on that. Maybe we should actually start a conditioning thread to compare exercises.....
ETA: I'll be doing mostly bodyweight exercises, maybe some deadlifts and squats with a bit of weight
My vastus medialis on my left leg is definitely underdeveloped, and possibly not firing properly so I'll be focussing on that. Maybe we should actually start a conditioning thread to compare exercises.....
ETA: I'll be doing mostly bodyweight exercises, maybe some deadlifts and squats with a bit of weight
Edited by addey on Thursday 5th October 21:19
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