The Wattage Thread

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Discussion

PeteB0

956 posts

247 months

Tuesday 9th December 2014
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After picking up a second-hand PT wheel I am a new convert to training with power. Decided that I was going to do it properly this year after struggling to see/feel improvements in 2014 over 2013.

A 20 minute threshold test on the turbo (following the BC protocol or thereabouts) put me at 236W (225FTP). Heat management is critical for me indoors. Knowing the test/my pacing now, I could test higher, but it's a good stake in the ground.

I'm going to be following part BC winter plan and part TCTP plan for the next 12 weeks so we'll see how that goes.

nammynake

2,590 posts

174 months

Tuesday 9th December 2014
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Did my first VO2max session on the turbo tonight. 4 x 4 minute intervals at just over 300 W (113% FTP) or 4.8 W/kg.

okgo

Original Poster:

38,079 posts

199 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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nammynake said:
Did my first VO2max session on the turbo tonight. 4 x 4 minute intervals at just over 300 W (113% FTP) or 4.8 W/kg.
Quite unpleasant aren't they.

I did 300w for two hours in a two up ride the other day, that was quite unpleasant.

nammynake

2,590 posts

174 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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okgo said:
Quite unpleasant aren't they.

I did 300w for two hours in a two up ride the other day, that was quite unpleasant.
Deeply unpleasant! 2 hours at 300 W ?! Impressive.

okgo

Original Poster:

38,079 posts

199 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
nammynake said:
Deeply unpleasant! 2 hours at 300 W ?! Impressive.
It actually sits in the tempo range for me, but for years I've always had a slight aversion to doing tempo rides at 300w and usually end up around 280, but we were smashing it and I think my normalised was 330w with average at 300 or something yeh.

I've done some calcs and if I try a 100 mile time trial next year then I think around 300-310w for circa 3 hrs 45 is what I'd be looking at. One of those ones that start off easy but by hour 3 must feel horrid.

whatleytom

1,306 posts

184 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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okgo said:
It actually sits in the tempo range for me, but for years I've always had a slight aversion to doing tempo rides at 300w and usually end up around 280, but we were smashing it and I think my normalised was 330w with average at 300 or something yeh.

I've done some calcs and if I try a 100 mile time trial next year then I think around 300-310w for circa 3 hrs 45 is what I'd be looking at. One of those ones that start off easy but by hour 3 must feel horrid.
Thats hugely impressive. Got my FTP to just over 300w this summer at its highest, now back down to about 250w through just not training, so depressing!

nammynake

2,590 posts

174 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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whatleytom said:
Thats hugely impressive. Got my FTP to just over 300w this summer at its highest, now back down to about 250w through just not training, so depressing!
Was that through a structured training plan? Looking to increase mine but only just starting to read up on the approaches. At the moment it's going to be a combination of sweet spot intervals (2x20 mins @ approx 90% FTP) and VO2max intervals together with a weekend fast club ride. Current FTP is 260-270 W and I'd like to get to 300.

whatleytom

1,306 posts

184 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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Not as structured as it should have been really, I was training for an IM triathlon in the summer, so was doing quite a lot of steady stuff, but mixing it in with something like 2x20min FTP intervals either mixed in to a slightly longer ride or just as an hour ride during the week. No strict training plan or coaching, which ideally I would have had.

murray

408 posts

284 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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I feel as though I'm getting good results from the Trainerroad time crunched plan and cyclocross or club ride at the weekend. Plan is two sessions a week; 5 * 5 mins at threshold with 1 min rest between intervals and 5 * 3.5 mins at 120% threshold with 7 minutes rest between intervals. The second one is particularly unpleasant.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

202 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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Stages has been ebayed (took a 200 quid hit, little bit ouchie) and winter bike power is now provided by a PowerTap G3 on a training wheel. PowerTaps all round! What bliss...

Now I need it to start raining again to justify the purchase through necessary winter bike riding.

drgav2005

960 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
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nammynake said:
Was that through a structured training plan? Looking to increase mine but only just starting to read up on the approaches. At the moment it's going to be a combination of sweet spot intervals (2x20 mins @ approx 90% FTP) and VO2max intervals together with a weekend fast club ride. Current FTP is 260-270 W and I'd like to get to 300.
The Sufferfest do a 10 week Intermediate Cycle Training Plan which is very good... I used that last year and I've started again... week 6 out of 10 at present.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

136 months

Monday 15th December 2014
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I would offer a slight note of ?caution? - don't focus entirely on FTP.

Obviously it depends what you're aiming for, but you tend to become good at what you do most:
- If you ride 25's all the time, then FTP is probably very much where it's at.
- If you ride longer, you need to make sure you're building a solid aerobic base, being able to sustain a larger percentage of a lower FTP is probably more use to you than having a massive FTP, but no endurance.

Especially applies if the bulk of your training is 20 minute intervals and an extrapolation from a 20 minute test..

nammynake

2,590 posts

174 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
upsidedownmark said:
I would offer a slight note of ?caution? - don't focus entirely on FTP.

Obviously it depends what you're aiming for, but you tend to become good at what you do most:
- If you ride 25's all the time, then FTP is probably very much where it's at.
- If you ride longer, you need to make sure you're building a solid aerobic base, being able to sustain a larger percentage of a lower FTP is probably more use to you than having a massive FTP, but no endurance.

Especially applies if the bulk of your training is 20 minute intervals and an extrapolation from a 20 minute test..
That's a good point. It's too easy to focus on FTP, which although being very important is not everything. I do a club ride each weekend, which is typically 70-80 miles so my endurance is OK I think, and I'm starting to do shorter interval stuff on the turbo such as VO2max and anaerobic, but I have to admit it's not a structured plan, just trying to get a mix of everything.

Main aims for next year are to start racing and to complete the 7-day Trans Alp stage race.

okgo

Original Poster:

38,079 posts

199 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
While it is good to make sure you address the longer side of things, it is still he with the bigger FTP that is using less of his potential on all rides. Also it would be very unlikely you would reach your FTP potential through short intervals only.

Its not one or the other, its everything, 4 hour rides will help your FTP, as will short intervals. Don't see one as base and one as FTP building, see it as working toward a common goal.


Ponk

1,380 posts

193 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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It appears P2M have discontinued the classic range. I was hoping to order one after Christmas so it looks like I've waited too long. :-(

How are people getting on with their stages? I hear they have resolved the reliability and battery issues.

anonymous-user

55 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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Ponk said:
It appears P2M have discontinued the classic range. I was hoping to order one after Christmas so it looks like I've waited too long. :-(

How are people getting on with their stages? I hear they have resolved the reliability and battery issues.
I know two people who bought them this year that have both died. Apparently after sales is good, but my main issue is why train with a device that is so compromised. Some of the numbers I have heard from these guys honestly were just so obviously garbage vs their TT times and how fast I knew them to be in a sprint. Both my original PT and G3 (both eBay) along with the recent P2M have been good. Overall I still like PT as it is measuring after losses. Stages though, I would save the extra or go second hand.

bert11

286 posts

179 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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Ponk said:
It appears P2M have discontinued the classic range. I was hoping to order one after Christmas so it looks like I've waited too long. :-(

How are people getting on with their stages? I hear they have resolved the reliability and battery issues.
My stages hasn't missed a beat since I got it in Sept, 2000 miles. Replaced the battery once so far. Decided to change it every 2 months based on my average riding time. Seen real gains in 1 hour power since my initial power tests. Well recommended from me

whatleytom

1,306 posts

184 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Ponk said:
It appears P2M have discontinued the classic range. I was hoping to order one after Christmas so it looks like I've waited too long. :-(

How are people getting on with their stages? I hear they have resolved the reliability and battery issues.
Still available for me?

http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/produkt-kategori...

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

207 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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What are the bods in the know doing training wise to increase FTP?

Ponk

1,380 posts

193 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
whatleytom said:
Ponk said:
It appears P2M have discontinued the classic range. I was hoping to order one after Christmas so it looks like I've waited too long. :-(

How are people getting on with their stages? I hear they have resolved the reliability and battery issues.
Still available for me?

http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/produkt-kategori...
Yup, but last week there were more compatibility options. I emailed them today and they said that have stopped production so it's just whatever is left! If you want compact BCD for example there are only FSA options now.