More helmet debate - but this time sensible!
Discussion
Hugo a Gogo said:
mikee boy said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
mikee boy said:
quote from survey
what are you trying to prove with that?that is not the same thing as 'in the event of an accident'- all those accidents with no injury are not counted - or even not 'in the event of an injury' - all those injuries that do not require hospital treatment are not counted
head injuries are far, far more likely to require hospital treatment so are disproportionately represented
this is known as 'cherry picking data'
all this is in response to me saying the risk from not wearing a helmet is miniscule, which it is, and you've said nothing to disprove that
In summary, the risk of a head injury is reduced if you wear a helmet compared to if you don't. Obviously that means the risk of a head injury in the event of an accident/injury.
heebeegeetee said:
And I think *exactly* the same applies to pedestrians. Research after research after research has said that risks to cyclists and peds are similar. (I also rather think you could apply the figure to almost every fall, and homes and workplaces are major sources of falls).
I probably agree (though I have no data to rank relative risk of different activities). Have I ever said otherwise? Please show me where I have and I'll buy you a pint.mikee boy said:
In summary, the risk of a head injury is reduced if you wear a helmet compared to if you don't.
Yes, at all times, and as I've asked throughout the thread, why do you confine this debate to cyclists and why do you take your helmet off when you've finished cycling? Head injuries are common and a million people suffer them per year in the UK, yet research repeats that the chances of suffering an injury whilst cycling normally are miniscule.
The only explanation I can see is that for whatever reason Pistonheader cyclists do seem to crash and bang their heads a lot. I trust they do not transfer this gung-honess/incomptence/carelessness to their driving.
heebeegeetee said:
mikee boy said:
In summary, the risk of a head injury is reduced if you wear a helmet compared to if you don't.
Yes, at all times, and as I've asked throughout the thread, why do you confine this debate to cyclists and why do you take your helmet off when you've finished cycling? Isn't it that the risk of a head injury is reduced if you have a head injury accident
The problem is you're more likely to have an accident if you wear a helmet as you can feel confident
And other road users treat you as more professional so give you less space
i.e. the risk of head injury or any injury is not necessarily reduced if you wear a helmet
Point me to post xxxx if thats already been covered
JQ said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
incidentally, the 'pro-helmet' people seem to have a lot of these helmet-saved-my-friend's-life stories, there are a lot fewer my-friend-died-because-he-didn't-wear-a-helmet stories
what that says, I don't know
A lot appear to be from personal experience. Mine certainly is. And I'm not "Pro-Helmet", I'm pro-helmet for me and my kids, everyone else can do whatever they like.what that says, I don't know
There don't seem to be many stories from people who've landed on their head and not been wearing a helmet. What that says, I don't know.
In the early 90's I bought myself a faddy 'triple triangle, high ground clearance' mountainbike, from a shop in Andover, of a brand I no longer remember. I cycled a lot. Mostly on Salisbury Plain training areas, as I was serving with 22 Engr Regt in Perham Down at the time. I did not own a helmet, as it was early days for helmets in general, and there wasn't the (voluntary) uptake we see now. I would describe the type of riding I did there as mainly 'fire road' standard, and road for the enjoyment of it, rather than 'aggressively flat out at everything'. I also road back and forth to work from Tidworth. The only 'off' I remember back then was a front wheel wash-out followed by a 'superman' along the road on one of the few occasions that I cycled by road, due to the off-road section being impassable through very heavy rain. I still have a scar on my elbow with little dimples in it from the road grit, and a souvenir in the form of my uniform Stable Belt which is heavily worn from it's trip down the road. Both the elbow scar and the belt buckle were caused by direct contact with the road surface through 4 layers of heavy duty military clothing, but because I managed to keep my head up and smashed sideways into a high kerb, I suffered no head injuries.
Later, I was posted to Farnborough, serving with 3 RSME Regt. Here too, I had good access to military training areas in which to 'play'. Whilst 'playing' I never wore a helmet, nor did I have any accident worthy of note.
BUT.
One evening, commuting home from work, after working a late job, I had the most serious accident of my cycling life. I hit a berm/jump in fading light, not realising it was there. The bike and I took off high, my weight distribution and contact points were all wrong (for a jump) and the bike came down wrong way up having arced through the air in a terrible 'slo-mo' fashion. When I landed, somehow my head was pushed all the way forward, chin pinned to my chest by the combined weight of me and the bike. The stem had struck me in the chest, and I could not breath. AT ALL. The next few minutes were terrifying, literally gasping for air like a landed fish, feeling myself start to black out. Evidently I managed to take in enough air to remain concious, but I remained unable to move for ten minutes or more. It was getting dark, the dog walkers seemed to have all gone home, and I probably needed an ambulance, but, pre mobile phone, I wasn't getting one of those in a hurry either.
It took me around 45 minutes to scrape myself up off the floor, and another 40 minutes or so to shuffle home, draped over the frame and handlebars of my (wrecked) bike. Foolishly, the following morning I drove myself into work and straight to the MO's office. From there I was driven to the Cambrige Military Hospital, Aldershot, where I had x-rays and later a scan. I'd fractured my sternum, and the C6/C7 vertebrae in my neck/back. When the consultant arrived to explain my treatment, he asked if I'd been wearing a helmet. I hesitated to answer, suspecting a stern lecture would follow, but the Doc sussed my thought process, and correctly guessed that no, I hadn't been 'lidded up'. He then told me that I was massively lucky to be upright, and possibly to be alive. In his opinion, had I been wearing a lid, my head would have been pushed further forward, and those extra millimetres would likely have caused nerve damage and possible paralysis. He also said that while he would never advocate cycling without a helmet, I had been fortunate that not wearing one had saved me from a potentially far more serious injury. My return to full duties took more than 18 months of treatment and physiotherapy, and I spent a further 6 to 8 months trying to lose the weight I put on during that inactive period, and getting back to previous levels of fitness. I still don't have the complete range of movement that I had in my neck/shoulders pre-accident, but it's not far from it.
The bike was a total loss too. The stem was twisted, as was the rear triangle and one of the pedal cranks. It remained chained up in the garden while I recovered, and was stolen on one occasion when the fence was cut to take the bike with the lock attached. The Police officers who attended the house (as they used to in the 'good old days') to take my statement brought it back - it had been dumped in a bush less than 50 yards from the house, it was so unrideable. "Is this your bike, Sir?" "Yes, unfortunately that is indeed my broken bike".
The relevance of this long tale is that, despite what happened, I still ride. Initially SWMBO forbade a mountainbike, so I took to road cycling. Eventually I bought another MTB and went off road again. The only difference is that now I almost always ride wearing a helmet. It's just become more 'normal' to wear a crash hat than not, and the only time I don't bother with one is when I bike the 1/2 mile to the local shop. My first lid was an 'El Cheapo' blue thing from Tesco, but as I got used to wearing one it became more sensible to spend a little more on something more comfortable and, well, 'blingy'. So I bought a Met with a peak and used it both on and off the road. Until last year it was my 'one for all' lid, but last year I splashed out on an Uvex 'Boss Race' road helmet, although this hasn't yet seen a lot of use
As others have said, once you condition yourself to wearing the thing, it feels odd to not wear one. My safety kit consists of the helmet, some gloves (for palm/knuckle protection) and eyewear, because I'm already mostly deaf in one ear and don't fancy losing any of my other senses. All basic, sensible precautions given the type of riding I do. My off-roading is now a little more 'hardcore' than of old, I like to push through narrow woodland tracks, or better still, 'virgin' trails, where there is no evidence of previous use. This means I often have to duck under low branches, and avoid stubby broken branches sticking out of the trunks of pine trees. If I go to a trail centre, such as Swinley, I push myself to go as fast as I dare on the twisty stuff, but as a result of that nasty experience from the past, I DEFINITELY wuss out when it comes to anything that involves jumping or big drop-offs. I simply no longer have the stomach to try the jumps, and after >15 years of avoiding them, the skills to carry them off have well and truly deserted me.
As for the debate on wearing/not wearing helmets, I'm massively in favour of personal choice. You know how/where you ride, and as an adult you should be capable of weighing the risks for yourself. I try not to judge others for their choices, but can't help but
when I see someone without a lid. The only exception is with my own kids. My youngest is 15, and as I am legally responsible for him, he WILL wear a helmet when he rides with me. What he does when he rides alone/with friends is beyond my control, and my eldest hasn't worn his lid since he turned 16 and I gave him the option to choose his own path. My wife does not own a helmet. She commutes (albeit infrequently) and I worry that she doesn't wear a helmet, but respect her decision not to. As a non-driver she has been a cyclist without a break for her entire adult life, is intelligent, a competent cyclist and more than capable of using her own judgement to assess the risks.Ultimately, I'm pro-choice, and anti-legislation, on the helmet issue. There's no real need for all this debate. Helmets are relatively easy things to buy, and a large enough proportion of cyclists wear them that it is not seen as 'unusual' behaviour. Therefore there is no real discouragement to the wearing of cycle helmets, which would be the only reason I could see to legitimately force people into wearing them. I genuinely believe that any legislation forcing cyclists to wear helmets would be counter-productive and actively discourage cycling for a small, yet significant, section of the public, and that those who would be discouraged are likely to be those that most need the exercise. Fatties don't need any more excuses to not do something about their bulk, they are mostly porkers due to an excess of excuses in the first place. Nannies are for babies. Let grown ups choose for themselves, and let parents decide how to best mitigate risk for their own children.
Or, alternatively, if the Government feel the need to legislate on this issue, let them first debate the problems of the far higher numbers of morons who inflict illness and injury on themselves and consequently overwhelm the NHS every Friday and Saturday night by drinking to excess. Surely a ration card to limit access to a known harmful substance would save more lives/injuries/money than compulsory cycle helmets? Or ban smoking altogether. For everyone. That'll be a huge reduction in the cancer care budget, no? Yet nothing, beyond punitive taxation will be done about these issues, so why pick out a relatively low risk group who are actively trying to improve their health, and 'tax' them by forcing them to purchase safety equipment that in all probability they will never need, and the statistics behind which are confusing, at best, and flawed, at worst.
That's my piece said on the matter. It runs to a whole lot more than my allotted 2 pennies worth, but there it is, for what it's worth.
Ride safe, y'all, helmet or no helmet
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