Cyclists! Why do they ride in the middle of the road?

Cyclists! Why do they ride in the middle of the road?

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Discussion

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
WinstonWolf said:
You haven't answered my question. Which bikes would you have fitted with indicators and brake lights?

Not withstanding the fact that the indicators would be so close together they'd be useless rofl
That's a difficult one really to call, and really is not for me as an individual to determine on my own as someone on the internet but rather a group of people because that's how we do things in 21st century Britain (Apparently anyway). Really we shouldn't be advocating road usage to minors on their own without training, kids are pretty lethal to themselves on bikes. But if was I was to say so, maybe something like all bikes who want to use mains roads need them but you also need something like cycling CBT (which would be overridden by a full driving license) as well.

If you can read a number plate at 20.5 meters away, I think if you'll be able to work out if the light is flashing on the right or left side.
You suggested it, let's hear your ideas...

As for reading a numberplate, there's enough poor drivers out there who can't see a six foot bloke atop a bike, they're bloody unlikely to see a teensy weensy indicator positioned 27.2mm apart...

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
fulham911club said:
Don't twist it around Will.

Being a cyclist and having a driving license doesn't give you the right to use your indicators in a car and totally forget about the need to warn other road users when you want to change direction or turn on a bicycle.

I never said that a lack of basic training was a cycling specific problem but most do not indicate when turning or moving direction. And for this I suggest basic training. Stop turning the thread into your usual rant about "everybody else doing something wrong. It's always somebody else's fault"
I think problem could be solved by making everyone ride a moped before a car. I can't think of anything better to teach you that making lifesaver checks, watching what drivers are doing and using your senses to determine dangers on the road ahead are what makes both a decent driver, and someone who stays in one piece.

There are so many bad things that the average driver does around cyclists that it's easy (for cyclists) to get the hump, especially when blanket statements are made with a solution that is a little bit ridiculous to be honest. London is probably the worst place to ride, I avoid the place like a plague tbh and couldn't think of a less suitable place to train.

Tomalawk

61 posts

132 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
otolith said:
Surely it is up to the person proposing adding cost, complexity and inconvenience to justify it. I think people suspect that the only real justification on offer is "because I have to have them on my car".

If I felt that hand signals weren't obvious enough (and I don't) I'd rather use gloves or wristbands with flashing LEDs embedded in them.

The decelerations and speeds involved with bicycles don't make brake lights worthwhile, IMO. You shouldn't need to see a brake light on the back of a bike to avoid running into it.
Why would you rather wave your arm around then push a button, surely putting your arm out is ruining the drag coefficient you've spend years mastering with the round gut when you could just push a button? Let me know if I'm wrong, but from where everywhere I've read legally I don't need indicators on my car, but I like them so I don't have to wave my fking arm around.

The bike enthusiasts I know spend anything from £800 onwards for a bike, £30-50 for some lights is fk all in. I'm guessing you don't also wear a helmet either because no accidents ever happen in your world ever.

Mr Gear

9,416 posts

189 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
I live in SW London, and if I am heading to the city centre (as I do every weekday), I take my motorcycle or bicycle.

If I am heading out of London, into the cycling hotbed of Surrey, I often take the car.

I utterly fail to understand how anyone with even the most basic driving ability can find it difficult to drive around cyclists. From Wiggo wannabes, chavs on BMXs with no lights through to wobbly old ladies, there isn't a cyclist out there who presents any kind of hazard to a competent driver.

If you can't see a cyclist, you are not looking. If you can't find a suitable space to pass a cyclist, you are an impatient moron. That's it. That's all you need to know.

Tomalawk

61 posts

132 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
You suggested it, let's hear your ideas...

As for reading a numberplate, there's enough poor drivers out there who can't see a six foot bloke atop a bike, they're bloody unlikely to see a teensy weensy indicator positioned 27.2mm apart...
Replying with "but the other drivers can't see this wa wa wa" isn't constructive or based on anything. I don't enforce these rules, nor am I responsible for blind people on the road so it's not a reason not to improve safety on the road.

will_

6,027 posts

202 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
Replying with "but the other drivers can't see this wa wa wa" isn't constructive or based on anything. I don't enforce these rules, nor am I responsible for blind people on the road so it's not a reason not to improve safety on the road.
On what basis would it improve safety though?

That supposes that a small flashing light is more easily seen than an arm. I don't think that supposition is correct.

If you're turning you're probably not going fast enough to worry about the drag co-efficient....

Mr Gear

9,416 posts

189 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
Why would you rather wave your arm around then push a button, surely putting your arm out is ruining the drag coefficient you've spend years mastering with the round gut when you could just push a button? Let me know if I'm wrong, but from where everywhere I've read legally I don't need indicators on my car, but I like them so I don't have to wave my fking arm around.

The bike enthusiasts I know spend anything from £800 onwards for a bike, £30-50 for some lights is fk all in. I'm guessing you don't also wear a helmet either because no accidents ever happen in your world ever.
Perhaps pedestrians can be forced to wear hats with flashing lights on too?

Why not paint trees with glow in the dark paint just so they can compensate for your incompetence?

Badgers in high-viz?

Tomalawk

61 posts

132 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
yonex said:
I think problem could be solved by making everyone ride a moped before a car. I can't think of anything better to teach you that making lifesaver checks, watching what drivers are doing and using your senses to determine dangers on the road ahead are what makes both a decent driver, and someone who stays in one piece.

There are so many bad things that the average driver does around cyclists that it's easy (for cyclists) to get the hump, especially when blanket statements are made with a solution that is a little bit ridiculous to be honest. London is probably the worst place to ride, I avoid the place like a plague tbh and couldn't think of a less suitable place to train.
It's no less ridiculous then wearing lycra but I agree with the idea of a progressed licensing system.

There are st drivers in London everyone knows, but there are also st cyclists there too.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
otolith said:
Surely it is up to the person proposing adding cost, complexity and inconvenience to justify it. I think people suspect that the only real justification on offer is "because I have to have them on my car".

If I felt that hand signals weren't obvious enough (and I don't) I'd rather use gloves or wristbands with flashing LEDs embedded in them.

The decelerations and speeds involved with bicycles don't make brake lights worthwhile, IMO. You shouldn't need to see a brake light on the back of a bike to avoid running into it.
Why would you rather wave your arm around then push a button, surely putting your arm out is ruining the drag coefficient you've spend years mastering with the round gut when you could just push a button?
Why would I rather use an arm signal? Because it's easier for motorists to see and understand than a little blinking light a few inches either side of the centreline of the bike.


Tomalawk said:
Let me know if I'm wrong, but from where everywhere I've read legally I don't need indicators on my car, but I like them so I don't have to wave my fking arm around.
Your car was built before 1936? Or you have a daylight only MOT? Or you are talking out of your arse?

Tomalawk said:
The bike enthusiasts I know spend anything from £800 onwards for a bike, £30-50 for some lights is fk all in. I'm guessing you don't also wear a helmet either because no accidents ever happen in your world ever.
My bike cost more than that, my lights cost more than that, I wear a helmet. You are the master of being wrong, congratulations.

I spent more than that on lights because they are, you know, useful. I don't want to spend any money at all on indicators because they would be useless. Pointless. Worse than arm signals.

I don't want to buy indicators for my bike for much the same reason that you don't have a horn fitted to your head to save you the trouble of saying "excuse me".

fulham911club

2,046 posts

241 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
will_ said:
Don't turn this into your usual position of it all being the cyclists' fault, when you already know that you can't support it.
Bye bye Will - can't be bothered with this or you anymore

graememac

574 posts

203 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Mr Gear said:
I live in SW London, and if I am heading to the city centre (as I do every weekday), I take my motorcycle or bicycle.

If I am heading out of London, into the cycling hotbed of Surrey, I often take the car.

I utterly fail to understand how anyone with even the most basic driving ability can find it difficult to drive around cyclists. From Wiggo wannabes, chavs on BMXs with no lights through to wobbly old ladies, there isn't a cyclist out there who presents any kind of hazard to a competent driver.

If you can't see a cyclist, you are not looking. If you can't find a suitable space to pass a cyclist, you are an impatient moron. That's it. That's all you need to know.
That just about sums it up for me. I had a great commute in this morning purely due to the lack of cars on the road being the school holidays, that was until the last 200 metres when some f*ckwit in a Civic drove past me then immediately slammed his brakes on and turned left in front of me. He was that 'impatient moron'.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
WinstonWolf said:
You suggested it, let's hear your ideas...

As for reading a numberplate, there's enough poor drivers out there who can't see a six foot bloke atop a bike, they're bloody unlikely to see a teensy weensy indicator positioned 27.2mm apart...
Replying with "but the other drivers can't see this wa wa wa" isn't constructive or based on anything. I don't enforce these rules, nor am I responsible for blind people on the road so it's not a reason not to improve safety on the road.
If you can't see an outstretched arm what makes you think someone will see a tiny dim indicator?

will_

6,027 posts

202 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
fulham911club said:
will_ said:
Don't turn this into your usual position of it all being the cyclists' fault, when you already know that you can't support it.
Bye bye Will - can't be bothered with this or you anymore
Yawn. You don't even the strength of your own convictions.

Why do you bother starting in the first place if you can't be bothered to actually enter the debate?

I'm sorry that what you thought I'd said isn't what you wanted me to say. But it's there to see ^.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
yonex said:
I think problem could be solved by making everyone ride a moped before a car. I can't think of anything better to teach you that making lifesaver checks, watching what drivers are doing and using your senses to determine dangers on the road ahead are what makes both a decent driver, and someone who stays in one piece.

There are so many bad things that the average driver does around cyclists that it's easy (for cyclists) to get the hump, especially when blanket statements are made with a solution that is a little bit ridiculous to be honest. London is probably the worst place to ride, I avoid the place like a plague tbh and couldn't think of a less suitable place to train.
It's no less ridiculous then wearing lycra but I agree with the idea of a progressed licensing system.

There are st drivers in London everyone knows, but there are also st cyclists there too.
At what age will you force cyclists to have a licence? Does this mean children won't be allowed to cycle to school?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
It's no less ridiculous then wearing lycra but I agree with the idea of a progressed licensing system.
It doesn't matter what you think

Tomalawk said:
There are st drivers in London everyone knows, but there are also st cyclists there too.
Are we getting somewhere......

Tomalawk said:
Why would you rather wave your arm around then push a button, surely putting your arm out is ruining the drag coefficient you've spend years mastering with the round gut when you could just push a button? Let me know if I'm wrong, but from where everywhere I've read legally I don't need indicators on my car, but I like them so I don't have to wave my fking arm around.

The bike enthusiasts I know spend anything from £800 onwards for a bike, £30-50 for some lights is fk all in. I'm guessing you don't also wear a helmet either because no accidents ever happen in your world ever.
er...no, we aren't.

Read what you have written and ask yourself if it is reasonable for anyone with half a brain to debate the subject with you?

Tomalawk

61 posts

132 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
At what age will you force cyclists to have a licence? Does this mean children won't be allowed to cycle to school?
We'll have to work this out. As powerfully built director i'm sure you'll know this. You come up basis of a plan, you then break down the details delegate and act. This is something that needs to be worked out, I'm not qualified and neither are you to say what age is a safe age. I'm just saying it's something we need to think about as road users, not as a driver vs cyclists.

Tomalawk

61 posts

132 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
yonex said:
er...no, we aren't.

Read what you have written and ask yourself if it is reasonable for anyone with half a brain to debate the subject with you?
Standard constructive response, cheers.

Answered questions with questions and avoided the problem again.

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
It's no less ridiculous then wearing lycra.....
Do you play any sport? Just wondering.
When I play golf I wear spiked shoes to enable me to be more securely footed and therefore swing harder.

When I play football I wear football boots that enabled me to have more traction on wet/muddy pitches.

When I go running I wear cushioned and lightweight running shoes to enable me to place my feet a bit faster.

When I go skiing I wear sunglasses to allow me to see better against the glare of the sun on the snow.

When I go scuba diving I wear a wetsuit to enable me to spend longer in cooler water.

When I go cycling I wear lycra as it allows me to manage body temperature and wick sweat whilst also being aerodynamic enabling me to go faster.

donfisher

793 posts

165 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Never mind that. Will the 4s to 60 Jazz be natural or forced induction?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
Tomalawk said:
Standard constructive response, cheers.

Answered questions with questions and avoided the problem again.
You have labeled cyclists s, made constant reference to lycra wearing, said anyone not agreeing with you is basically a militant or stupid and even tried to question people's sexuality due to their hobby.

I think you are the problem that needs avoiding.