Have we become a nation of cycle haters?
Discussion
Gizmoish said:
NoNeed said:
I haven't tried to change any discussion, not at all. And an involuntary natural act that you are powerless to stop could well be the actual cause of an accident.
But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not generally need to be in fear of their lives due to other people's negligence.But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
NoNeed said:
Gizmoish said:
NoNeed said:
I haven't tried to change any discussion, not at all. And an involuntary natural act that you are powerless to stop could well be the actual cause of an accident.
But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not generally need to be in fear of their lives due to other people's negligence.But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
Riding a bike on the road, I hate to remind you, is only dangerous due to the incompetence, negligence or malice of others.
Gizmoish said:
NoNeed said:
Gizmoish said:
NoNeed said:
I haven't tried to change any discussion, not at all. And an involuntary natural act that you are powerless to stop could well be the actual cause of an accident.
But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not generally need to be in fear of their lives due to other people's negligence.But like I was saying, there is a responsibility on cyclists to make themselves seen, a failure to use lights at night is one I come across quite often. Then there are the other distraction I mentioned such as radio tuning that even you admit to.
Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge, that is just daft.
Riding a bike on the road, I hate to remind you, is only dangerous due to the incompetence, negligence or malice of others.
Luckily for these negligent cyclists I was wide awake and not distracted from driving by anything but the sight of them.
It could have been different though, a scenario that springs to mind which happened recently to me as well would be a police officer signalling to me to pull over thus drawing my eyesight to the other side of the road and there lie the seeds of an accident as I may not have noticed them.
It will not always be the drivers fault, even when it is the drivers fault it may have been a situation that got out of his control, a situation that only a superhuman like dammit can deal with.
Not everybody takes advanced driving courses, drivers will themselves have vastly differing standards limited by their own brain power and hand eye co-ordination. Sometimes accidents will happen and luckily most judges (well from the headlines I read) agree that destroying somebody elses life for an accident no matter how sad and tragic isn't warranted and judges are far more clever than I.
NoNeed said:
I have just got back from fetching a takeaway where on the way coming in the other direct were three young lads riding three abreast in dark clothing with no lights. If somebody was with me I would have a photo for the thread as it was the first thing I though of.
Luckily for these negligent cyclists I was wide awake and not distracted from driving by anything but the sight of them.
How convenient for you, the negligent cyclists appearing (or not, depending on your point of view) just in time to justify your drivel.Luckily for these negligent cyclists I was wide awake and not distracted from driving by anything but the sight of them.
These are the equivalent of the uninsured motorist and should be discounted as idiots, much like yourself.
NoNeed said:
I have just got back from fetching a takeaway where on the way coming in the other direct were three young lads riding three abreast in dark clothing with no lights. If somebody was with me I would have a photo for the thread as it was the first thing I though of.
Luckily for these negligent cyclists I was wide awake and not distracted from driving by anything but the sight of them.
It could have been different though, a scenario that springs to mind which happened recently to me as well would be a police officer signalling to me to pull over thus drawing my eyesight to the other side of the road and there lie the seeds of an accident as I may not have noticed them.
It will not always be the drivers fault, even when it is the drivers fault it may have been a situation that got out of his control, a situation that only a superhuman like dammit can deal with.
Not everybody takes advanced driving courses, drivers will themselves have vastly differing standards limited by their own brain power and hand eye co-ordination. Sometimes accidents will happen and luckily most judges (well from the headlines I read) agree that destroying somebody elses life for an accident no matter how sad and tragic isn't warranted and judges are far more clever than I.
Not this old cobblers again. Look, this business of no lights has been shown to feature in just 2% of cyclist ksi's. 80% happen in broad daylight, most caused by a driver failing to look properly. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/1...Luckily for these negligent cyclists I was wide awake and not distracted from driving by anything but the sight of them.
It could have been different though, a scenario that springs to mind which happened recently to me as well would be a police officer signalling to me to pull over thus drawing my eyesight to the other side of the road and there lie the seeds of an accident as I may not have noticed them.
It will not always be the drivers fault, even when it is the drivers fault it may have been a situation that got out of his control, a situation that only a superhuman like dammit can deal with.
Not everybody takes advanced driving courses, drivers will themselves have vastly differing standards limited by their own brain power and hand eye co-ordination. Sometimes accidents will happen and luckily most judges (well from the headlines I read) agree that destroying somebody elses life for an accident no matter how sad and tragic isn't warranted and judges are far more clever than I.
So stop blathering on about the myth of cyclists with no lights and just make sure you're not one of the drivers who fails to see the cyclist in front of him in broad daylight.
And if you know you cant drive and sneeze at the same time then just be aware that you'll go to prison if you kill somebody.
I think "hater" is too strong a word, its more a failure to appreciate the vulnerability of cyclists. People are just accustomed to only sharing the road with other tin boxes and fail to appreciate that there are other forms of transport out there.
I was almost taken out twice within the space of a few miles on the A4 towards Corsham on Friday, once by a car who thought there was space to cut up the inside of a van which was turning right and had forgotten he had just overtaken me twenty seconds ago thus surprised I came up his inside, the second by a t
t in a van who backed out of squeezing past me and a traffic island at the last minute. The van incident was the result of a random traffic island which does nothing other than create a pinch point on the road but doesnt redeem his stupidity.
Neither incident was as a result, I believe, of the driver being a "hater", more a case of them being incompetent and not paying attention though the van driver, having better visibility, had no excuse.
I was almost taken out twice within the space of a few miles on the A4 towards Corsham on Friday, once by a car who thought there was space to cut up the inside of a van which was turning right and had forgotten he had just overtaken me twenty seconds ago thus surprised I came up his inside, the second by a t
t in a van who backed out of squeezing past me and a traffic island at the last minute. The van incident was the result of a random traffic island which does nothing other than create a pinch point on the road but doesnt redeem his stupidity.Neither incident was as a result, I believe, of the driver being a "hater", more a case of them being incompetent and not paying attention though the van driver, having better visibility, had no excuse.
heebeegeetee said:
Not this old cobblers again. Look, this business of no lights has been shown to feature in just 2% of cyclist ksi's. 80% happen in broad daylight, most caused by a driver failing to look properly. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/1...
So stop blathering on about the myth of cyclists with no lights and just make sure you're not one of the drivers who fails to see the cyclist in front of him in broad daylight.
And if you know you cant drive and sneeze at the same time then just be aware that you'll go to prison if you kill somebody.
You twisted those outdated statistics a little didn't you?So stop blathering on about the myth of cyclists with no lights and just make sure you're not one of the drivers who fails to see the cyclist in front of him in broad daylight.
And if you know you cant drive and sneeze at the same time then just be aware that you'll go to prison if you kill somebody.
from that report 17-25% of all fatal accidents were SOLELY the cyclists fault, and riding into the back in broad daylight was only 25 % rising to 33% in rural areas. More interestingly 15% involved cyclists alone, I take that to mean no cars.
So whether no lights, glare from the sun or some other distraction it does seem to me from that report that drivers are only found responsible by police in 60-75% of incidents. We don't have a breakdown of how many of those were prosecuted nor what reasons the driver gave.
Twas a poor choice of wordsNoNeed- here's a question for you:
Should you drive in a manner in which you know you can maintain control, despite well known issues such as, but not limited to, sneezing, changing channels on the stereo, cresting a hill into low-angle sun, having an argument with the DJ on the radio etc etc, or are these all perfectly legitimate excuses to lose control of your vehicle and kill someone?
I'll give you a clue- if you think that you don't have to allow for these common distractions, and that if they occur then you are not in anyway responsible for the consequences then for the love of God, sell your car now.
And stop bringing in all the victim-blaming nonsense- it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, it is, in every possible sense, you shouting "LOOK A MOUNTAIN LION!" when you (in some subconscious way) realise that your position is indefensible and morally outrageous.
For the sake of us all, never, ever drive a car again.
Should you drive in a manner in which you know you can maintain control, despite well known issues such as, but not limited to, sneezing, changing channels on the stereo, cresting a hill into low-angle sun, having an argument with the DJ on the radio etc etc, or are these all perfectly legitimate excuses to lose control of your vehicle and kill someone?
I'll give you a clue- if you think that you don't have to allow for these common distractions, and that if they occur then you are not in anyway responsible for the consequences then for the love of God, sell your car now.
And stop bringing in all the victim-blaming nonsense- it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, it is, in every possible sense, you shouting "LOOK A MOUNTAIN LION!" when you (in some subconscious way) realise that your position is indefensible and morally outrageous.
For the sake of us all, never, ever drive a car again.
Dammit said:
For the sake of us all, never, ever drive a car again.
I have never hurt or killed anybody. It could happen, it could happen to anybody that gets in a car and sometimes it will be their fault, sometimes it would be a tragic and unforeseeable chain of events that was started by doing something perfectly normal like changing a CD, sneezing or looking in your rear view mirror for blue lights after you've heard the siren while at the same time that van in front that was not only blocking your view of the cyclist but the glare of the sun has moved to overtake it just as you turn back into the glare completely unaware.s
t just happens sometimes, revenge doesn't make it not happen, it doesn't make the pain go away.You are a lost cause, and a dangerous one at that.
Do you take this approach in other areas of your life?
i.e. distracted by an oddly proportioned carrot, you stab your wife with the peeling knife - not your fault though!
Walking through the park you become distracted by a low-flying pigeon, and push a toddler into an ornamental pool - not your fault though!
Crossing Waterloo bridge you check your phone for texts, and push a fellow commuter under a bus - not your fault though!
Do you take this approach in other areas of your life?
i.e. distracted by an oddly proportioned carrot, you stab your wife with the peeling knife - not your fault though!
Walking through the park you become distracted by a low-flying pigeon, and push a toddler into an ornamental pool - not your fault though!
Crossing Waterloo bridge you check your phone for texts, and push a fellow commuter under a bus - not your fault though!
Dammit said:
You are a lost cause, and a dangerous one at that.
Do you take this approach in other areas of your life?
i.e. distracted by an oddly proportioned carrot, you stab your wife with the peeling knife - not your fault though!
Walking through the park you become distracted by a low-flying pigeon, and push a toddler into an ornamental pool - not your fault though!
Crossing Waterloo bridge you check your phone for texts, and push a fellow commuter under a bus - not your fault though!
An accident by it's very definition is an unforeseeable event, why suffer legal sanction for doing something perfectly legal that just happens to have a tragic consequence?Do you take this approach in other areas of your life?
i.e. distracted by an oddly proportioned carrot, you stab your wife with the peeling knife - not your fault though!
Walking through the park you become distracted by a low-flying pigeon, and push a toddler into an ornamental pool - not your fault though!
Crossing Waterloo bridge you check your phone for texts, and push a fellow commuter under a bus - not your fault though!
If you bumped into somebody in a crowded shopping area do you surrender yourself at the police station? seriously? now imagine you knocked somebody who was already "wrong footed" as they were trying to get out of your way and they fell bumped their head and died. How many years do you expect to serve?
NoNeed said:
An accident by it's very definition is an unforeseeable event, why suffer legal sanction for doing something perfectly legal that just happens to have a tragic consequence?
If you bumped into somebody in a crowded shopping area do you surrender yourself at the police station? seriously? now imagine you knocked somebody who was already "wrong footed" as they were trying to get out of your way and they fell bumped their head and died. How many years do you expect to serve?
Walking does not constitute a significant threat to others. Driving does. Which is why it should not EVER be accepted that "not paying attention" is OK. If you bumped into somebody in a crowded shopping area do you surrender yourself at the police station? seriously? now imagine you knocked somebody who was already "wrong footed" as they were trying to get out of your way and they fell bumped their head and died. How many years do you expect to serve?
Get a grip.
NoNeed said:
An accident by it's very definition is an unforeseeable event, why suffer legal sanction for doing something perfectly legal that just happens to have a tragic consequence?
If you bumped into somebody in a crowded shopping area do you surrender yourself at the police station? seriously? now imagine you knocked somebody who was already "wrong footed" as they were trying to get out of your way and they fell bumped their head and died. How many years do you expect to serve?
You've got no idea here have you?If you bumped into somebody in a crowded shopping area do you surrender yourself at the police station? seriously? now imagine you knocked somebody who was already "wrong footed" as they were trying to get out of your way and they fell bumped their head and died. How many years do you expect to serve?
Sneezing is not unforeseeable - it's a common occurrence. As such, you should be prepared for it to happen.
Likewise, driving is an activity that occurs in a dynamic environment- things happen, all the time, and sometimes they are not expected.
Therefore you drive in a manner which takes into account that something might happen- this is why most people (I'm guessing this doesn't include you) leave a gap between their car and the one ahead, in case it brakes or takes evading action and you also need to do so.
In conclusion, you need to drive in a fashion that take into account the foreseeable and - yes, you moron- the unforeseeable.
An example - foreseeable would be a car pulling out of a side street even though you have priority. Make eye contact, look at their road positioning etc.
Unforeseeable would be a child running out between parked cars - leave a large gap between you and the cars, if that isn't possible reduce your speed to a) to reduce impact energy and b) give you the best chance of avoiding the accident.
Dammit said:
You've got no idea here have you?
Ok then what should the van driver involved in a collision at 39 seconds be charged with? unsafe load? not using his mirrors? and was the cyclist riding with foreseeable events in mind?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tINaMUG1Nxs
Oh and a sneeze is not a voluntary act, from this wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneeze
A sneeze expels air forcibly from the mouth and nose in an explosive, spasmodic involuntary action
I said earlier that sometimes s
t just happens.well sometimes cyclist help it to happen, maybe we should have a compulsory training and licencing scheme for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5GbPxoYQ_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUftM2SAIus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnRNoGbKCZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA1e11EdzQs
Maybe you should watch silly cyclists, this is episode 29 I have no idea how many episodes there are but each contains some very daft manouvres that I would want an unfortunate car driver prosecuted for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PxKdspjJQ
Sometimes s
t just happens and you wanting revenge wont stop it,change it nor will it make anybody feel better about their loss. Accidents are unforeseeable event by their very definition and despite you saying you can foresee everything, you can't, sometimes st just happens.Edited by NoNeed on Sunday 27th July 11:50
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