Have we become a nation of cycle haters?

[Dammit]

Noneed - I have not blamed any victim, Ever.
Me- yes you have, when you tried to assert that riders moving into primary around a bend were the authors of their own misfortune. That is patently false, and is blaming the blameless party.


Noneed- I have not stated nor asserted that a driver that kills through his own negligence should be given no sanction.

What I said was [quote-=NoNeed]Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge.
That doesn't mean no sanction that means life ruined.
Me - you've just contradicted yourself, you do realise that? Losing control of your vehicle due to sneezing IS NEGLIGENT, you should be able to deal with minor issues like hay fever without killing people!


Noneed - You keep stating that I'm say things that i'm not while simultaneously calling me stupid. I have mentioned it a few times now yet you keep doing it.
Me - Which is why I've kept your words (and your contradicting yourself) just as you wrote it this time. No denying it for you, me laddo.


Noneed - The more you do that the more I think my original thoughts about your mental health are correct.
Me - thing what you want, you swivel eyed lunatic.


Noneed - Oh and for all those that have a fixation on the sneeze eliment of my post while ignoring everything else.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ link number one showing that sneezing causes idiots to crash their cars

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ link number two, showing a terrible miscarriage of justice where a cabbie walks free after causing an accident, showing everything wrong with the jury system


Noneed - I eagerly await you to invent something else I have said while throwing insults.


Noneed - I'm starting to think it may have been option one now and not the personality disorder stated in option two.
Me - try worming out of it this time.

[Gruffy]

G0ldfysh said:

Too many people fail to think long enough about their actions and how they will affect others, and think of their own world only.

Is it because we all live too closely together, is this a populated areas only problem?
Are lives too pressured that we cannot unwind on the weekend and give people space and time?

I agree with your entire post and I'm glad somebody finally posted it. Sadly I do think it's largely caused by population density and the cut-throat nature of city life. It seems we regress towards a dog-eat-dog mentality and lose our ability or willingness to empathise.

Take lane-hogging as one example. I doubt very much that it's malicious in intent but rather that perpetrators are simply too self-absorbed to consider the impact it has on other road users. I think this goes far beyond road use and extends into all aspects of life too.

I like to think that we're all basically decent at our core and if we had the capacity to think about how we impact others then we'd behave quite differently. Perhaps that's just naive optimism on my part.

[NoNeed]

NoNeed said:

I have not blamed any victim, Ever.

[quote-Dammit] yes you have, when you tried to assert that riders moving into primary around a bend were the authors of their own misfortune. That is patently false, and is blaming the blameless party.

I have made no such assertion, I did however make the assertion that you are making claims I have not made and again you do it.

NoNeed said:

I have not stated nor asserted that a driver that kills through his own negligence should be given no sanction.

What I said was [quote-=NoNeed]Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge.

That doesn't mean no sanction that means life ruined.

Dammit said:

you've just contradicted yourself, you do realise that? Losing control of your vehicle due to sneezing IS NEGLIGENT, you should be able to deal with minor issues like hay fever without killing people!

You should be able to do many things without killing people but sadly like I said, sometimes st just happens. Besides if that were true the driving test examiner would carry pepper.

You keep stating that I'm say things that i'm not while simultaneously calling me stupid. I have mentioned it a few times now yet you keep doing it.

Dammit said:

Which is why I've kept your words (and your contradicting yourself) just as you wrote it this time. No denying it for you, me laddo.

lies lies and more lies, your first point contains a claim I have not made.

NoNeed said:

The more you do that the more I think my original thoughts about your mental health are correct.

Dammit said:

thing what you want, you swivel eyed lunatic.

More insults I see, You just can't help yourself can you? I think a doctor maybe able to should you want to ride your bike to a local surgery

NoNeed said:

Oh and for all those that have a fixation on the sneeze eliment of my post while ignoring everything else.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ link number one showing that sneezing causes idiots to crash their cars

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/

Dammit said:

link number two, showing a terrible miscarriage of justice where a cabbie walks free after causing an accident, showing everything wrong with the jury system

Actuually it shows that a judge who would be far from an idiot thinks the same way as I do

NoNeed said:

I eagerly await you to invent something else I have said while throwing insults.

Glad you didn't dissapoint

NoNeed said:

I'm starting to think it may have been option one now and not the personality disorder stated in option two.

Dammit said:

try worming out of it this time.

Worming out of what exactly? All I have done is share my opinion on an open discussion forum, it is you that has been openly hostile, insulting and told lies to support you ridiculous position.

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 28th July 20:10

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 28th July 20:11

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 28th July 20:16

[Dammit]

We shall have to disagree - I think that killing someone due to sneezing is negligent as you should be able to sneeze without losing control of your vehicle.

You believe that being able to drive to a standard where you cannot control your vehicle following a sneeze is acceptable.

There's no way we are going to ever agree, I suspect.

I'm shocked, and saddened that you think your position is in anyway acceptable, but there you go.

[NoNeed]

Th

Dammit said:

We shall have to disagree - I think that killing someone due to sneezing is negligent as you should be able to sneeze without losing control of your vehicle.

You believe that being able to drive to a standard where you cannot control your vehicle following a sneeze is acceptable.

There's no way we are going to ever agree, I suspect.

I'm shocked, and saddened that you think your position is in anyway acceptable, but there you go.

It's not about the sneeze is it? like I said you and a couple of others fixated on that part as you thought it a winner.

It's about everyday normal people going about everyday normal things having their lives destroyed for an accident that has probably allready destroyed some poor fkers life. Destroying more does not make it better, and it doesn't heal wounds.

But thank you for your post without insults thank you very very much.

[Dammit]

Please replace sneeze with any other ordinary, every day occurrence which you think justifies losing control of your car.

Just a guess - have you been on a jury and responsible for a verdict of not guilty for causing death by dangerous driving in just this sort of case, or similar?

I can't think of any other reason why you'd stick to your guns when you are clearly in the wrong.

[NoNeed]

I also think it is remarkable there are not more accidents when you think that despite our limited and very differing levels of driving standards and abilities, that fact that sometimes thousands of cars can pass over a piece of tarmac three or four abreast sometimes just inches apart and at vastly differing speeds sometimes up to and exceeding 70mph.

[Dammit]

No answer, then.

[NoNeed]

Dammit said:

I can't think of any other reason why you'd stick to your guns when you are clearly in the wrong.

There is no right or wrong with an opinion, I can't tell somebody that the death sentence they want for killing a cyclist is wrong, but I can explain why I think it is wrong.


Sometimes people differ based on their own life experience and education, it's what make life fun and enjoyable


Anyway an internet beer is in order I think, care to join me.

[Dammit]

I'm assuming that's a yes.

[NoNeed]

Dammit said:

No answer, then.

Sorry I must I have been typing my other post when this was posted.


No I have not sat on a jury.


Besides the jury decide guilt based on evidence. I have not been arguing against guilt as such more the sentence as I have suggested many mitigating factors.

[Dammit]

The only mitigating factor you've suggested is that you don't think people should be considered negligent if they lose control of their car due to a normal, everyday event.

You used that language.

Can't you see how you've perfectly described negligence? Losing control due to an ordinary event?

No?

If I had a stroke whilst driving and crashed then THAT is a mitigating factor.

If I lose concentration due to staring at a poster in a bus stop and crash then that is NOT a mitigating factor - it is negligence, plain and simple.

But, you can't, or won't accept this.

Which is why I suggested you hand in your driving licence earlier in this thread.

[NoNeed]

Dammit said:

But, you can't, or won't accept this.

Yes I did use that language as that is what I believe. For people that drive all the time such as truckers taxi drivers and the like we can expect a higher standard. For normal people just visit your local high rise car park and see how many different colours of paint are on the kerbs and walls where people have misjudged things even at low speed.


Advertising
Oh this is one thing that pusses my personal button. I hate roadside advertising.

I would accept that the advertising board was a contributory factor which Is why they aren't allowed on motorways. That said I have seen many popping up around the midlands as well as the usual vans in fields malarkey that should be illegal and dealt with accordingly.

An advertising executive knows how to get peoples attention, pure and simple, it is what they are paid for and what they spend a fortune researching.

Drivers are human and while we should be able to drive with a level of attention to the road that doesn't cause a problem there will be many distractions not just advertising for a normal person to contend with.


We are not all brilliant professional drivers, some will be 17 years old and fresh out of school with very little experience.


Whether we like it or not, whether we think it's right or wrong, a 70% off Ted Baker handbags is going to get a 17 year old girls attention and while we allow those sort of advertising boards along side our roads it's a fact we have to get used to unless we are prepared to change the normal driving standards up by radical changes to the test.

Advertising people would not pay a fortune for these things if they were not effective. It is an area that I believe need to be addressed.

[gazza285]

NoNeed said:

I think you should read that thread, learn to have fun and enjoy life it's far to short to be filled with hate.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I don't hate you. I don't even know you, but having to read your opinions adds nothing of value to this debate. I do worry that anybody can hold such opinions, and I fear that you are not alone, although you don't seem to be gathering much support on this thread.

[Mr Gear]

NoNeed said:

We are not all brilliant professional drivers, some will be 17 years old and fresh out of school with very little experience.

Yes! And we need to hammer into them, along with any other incompetent drivers, that you need to pay attention and anticipate what you can't see. If you can't see round a corner, slow down! If there are lots of pedestrians on the pavement, slow down! If there is a cyclist up ahead, slow down and give them room! Because you never know if you might sneeze.

[NoNeed]

gazza285 said:

NoNeed said:

I think you should read that thread, learn to have fun and enjoy life it's far to short to be filled with hate.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I don't hate you. I don't even know you, but having to read your opinions adds nothing of value to this debate. I do worry that anybody can hold such opinions, and I fear that you are not alone, although you don't seem to be gathering much support on this thread.

It wasn't said in a serious manner hence the smiley.

And it is a cyclists forum where many car drivers maybe too scared to visit lol.

I on the other hand need to get fit again and am thinking of getting back on a bike but don't want to spend a fortune just in case my new fad doesn't last.

[NoNeed]

Mr Gear said:

NoNeed said:

We are not all brilliant professional drivers, some will be 17 years old and fresh out of school with very little experience.

Yes! And we need to hammer into them, along with any other incompetent drivers, that you need to pay attention and anticipate what you can't see. If you can't see round a corner, slow down! If there are lots of pedestrians on the pavement, slow down! If there is a cyclist up ahead, slow down and give them room! Because you never know if you might sneeze.

I agree, but with the best will in the world even those advanced drivers that get trained in anticipating the movements of others can get it wrong. We should also do something to make sure regular cyclists have a good road sense because what I am seeing more and more recently is a total disregard for any form of traffic regulation from cyclists.

Had one fly past me in a 20 zone in Birmingham city center the other day, fk knows what he had for breakfast but he was certainly shifting well above the speed limit.

[Dammit]

There is no speed limit for bicycles.

[NoNeed]

Dammit said:

There is no speed limit for bicycles.

There should be, We should have rules for all.


You even said "My position is that this is not desirable in a civilised society as we should have a structure of rules which promote personal responsibility"


I have no idea what brakes and tyres are like on modern top spec bikes like the one I saw, but when I was riding some 10 years ago On my £150 halfords weekend special offer, that sort of speed would have got me hurt sooner rather than later lol

[Dammit]

There are rules for all - all motorised vehicles are governed by the same regulations.

Bicycles are not motorised, and are therefore treated as carriages.

As to you being a danger - yes, I am sure you were, and are.