Have we become a nation of cycle haters?
Discussion
I think people are idiots, regardless of the transport they choose, I can see why cycling gets a bad rep due the people seeing a couple of knobs in lycra then tarring everyone with the same brush. There are some impatient cyclists who need to follow the rules of the road, as there are car drivers the same . Some people just go out looking for confrontation I think
Pablos point was correct, I think people are too self absorbing and impatient, drivers go nuts if they are slightly delayed or held up, often blaming everyone but themselves for running late!
Its not just cyclists, my misses who is heavily pregnant, kids and dogs hate been driven fast. Therefore I'm usually just cruising along at the speed limit with them in the car. The amount of aggressiveness and impatienceness you see from other drivers near me when you do 30 through a 30 is unreal. One guy followed me home just to scream abuse at me for doing 30 through a 30 ( I did no brake testing or anything like that). As soon as I walked over to his car to question his points he wheelspan off almost taking a granny crossing the road out!!
Managed to do 150 miles on Saturday on a variety of roads , and 99% of the drivers were great. One guy passed me deliberately close on Greenham common in Newbury, 5 miles later I caught up with him at the level crossing in Thatcham, so it was hardly worth the gamble! Riding back through the same road later, a car sat patently behind me whilst I did a short climb right to the top, he then passed , I gave him a thank you wave, he beeped and waved back. So for every knob theres usually 10 or so really good drivers.
OP - Having lived near WIndsor/Ascot & Surrey, I did find you got some aggressive drivers and the hatred towards cyclists was probably the most I had ever experienced, the rest of the country is more chilled
As for pensioners, they are either lovely and positive or complete miserable b
ds!! To give a balanced view a couple stopped me in the street and said how nice it was to see cyclists about, they were about 70 ish
Pablos point was correct, I think people are too self absorbing and impatient, drivers go nuts if they are slightly delayed or held up, often blaming everyone but themselves for running late!
Its not just cyclists, my misses who is heavily pregnant, kids and dogs hate been driven fast. Therefore I'm usually just cruising along at the speed limit with them in the car. The amount of aggressiveness and impatienceness you see from other drivers near me when you do 30 through a 30 is unreal. One guy followed me home just to scream abuse at me for doing 30 through a 30 ( I did no brake testing or anything like that). As soon as I walked over to his car to question his points he wheelspan off almost taking a granny crossing the road out!!
Managed to do 150 miles on Saturday on a variety of roads , and 99% of the drivers were great. One guy passed me deliberately close on Greenham common in Newbury, 5 miles later I caught up with him at the level crossing in Thatcham, so it was hardly worth the gamble! Riding back through the same road later, a car sat patently behind me whilst I did a short climb right to the top, he then passed , I gave him a thank you wave, he beeped and waved back. So for every knob theres usually 10 or so really good drivers.
OP - Having lived near WIndsor/Ascot & Surrey, I did find you got some aggressive drivers and the hatred towards cyclists was probably the most I had ever experienced, the rest of the country is more chilled
As for pensioners, they are either lovely and positive or complete miserable b
ds!! To give a balanced view a couple stopped me in the street and said how nice it was to see cyclists about, they were about 70 ish Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Monday 16th June 10:31
IroningMan said:
e21Mark said:
Were I the only car being held up, it wouldn't be a problem. I have no need to get anywhere that quickly. The problem occurs when there is a back up of traffic due to some cyclists (not all) choosing to ignore the fact they're on a narrow, busy road and cycle 2 abreast. It can appear that this might be deliberate or that they're not paying attention to other road users, as opposed to their being out to get me and frustrate my progress.
If you can't overtake cyclists two abreast because there's something coming the other way - THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OVERTAKE THEM SAFELY IN SINGLE FILE EITHER.FFS.
e21Mark said:
IroningMan said:
e21Mark said:
Were I the only car being held up, it wouldn't be a problem. I have no need to get anywhere that quickly. The problem occurs when there is a back up of traffic due to some cyclists (not all) choosing to ignore the fact they're on a narrow, busy road and cycle 2 abreast. It can appear that this might be deliberate or that they're not paying attention to other road users, as opposed to their being out to get me and frustrate my progress.
If you can't overtake cyclists two abreast because there's something coming the other way - THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OVERTAKE THEM SAFELY IN SINGLE FILE EITHER.FFS.
pablo said:
And yes, county councils are full of non cyclists who insist on ballsing up every road we have trying to help cyclists without seemingly consulting anyone.... there is a major balls up being built on the A4174 Bristol ring road just off the M32 now, another set of lights just to let cyclists cross the road despite a far better crossing 100 yards up the road... it will piss of motorists because no cyclist will use it and that just increases the resentment.
Oh they consult people alright.They consult the national association for nervous cyclists and the royal society of shopping bike users. They don't consult the other 99% of cyclists though.
Biker's Nemesis said:
They're getting right on my tits with their 2 or 3 abreast riding at 10mph on country roads, epically the slow ones at the back of a group of 20 or 30.
I am talking about Scott's Gap and Pigdon in Northumberland
Funny I feel the same about all the Sunday hero's on motorcycles. I already have a fairly decent knowledge of how modern superbikes sound and don't really need some prat giving it the big one when I am out minding my own business. I am talking about Scott's Gap and Pigdon in Northumberland
Some inconsiderate assholes on all sides.
Biker's Nemesis said:
They're getting right on my tits with their 2 or 3 abreast riding at 10mph on country roads, epically the slow ones at the back of a group of 20 or 30.
...
Its easier for a car to overtake a bunch of cyclists riding 2 or 3 abreast than it is for a car to overtake many cyclists travelling in a single row....
Imagine the bunch (2 or 3 abreast) is like one truck and the single file cyclists are like lots of nissan micras travelling closely together with hardly any gap between them.
Which would you rather overtake?
egor110 said:
yellowjack said:
Narrow roads are far more suitable for use by narrow vehicles than they are suitable for use by wide vehicles. Debate...
so wide roads like motorways should only be used by wide vehicles ie hgv's?
IroningMan said:
If you can't overtake cyclists two abreast because there's something coming the other way - THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OVERTAKE THEM SAFELY IN SINGLE FILE EITHER.
FFS.
Put more generally, where W is the width of a cyclist:FFS.
nW = (n+1)W
Since we know that W>0, the only other solution is that cyclists are infinitely wide, explaining why they are so hard to pass.
egor110 said:
yellowjack said:
Narrow roads are far more suitable for use by narrow vehicles than they are suitable for use by wide vehicles. Debate...
so wide roads like motorways should only be used by wide vehicles ie hgv's?
Seriously. If that is the sum total of your counter argument, quite frankly I think I'm winning this debate...
e21Mark said:
With regard to speeding, I imagine you're alighting to the fact that cyclists cannot be prosecuted? Trying to pass at all costs and causing other road users to swerve, brake and/or take avoiding action probably brings other laws into play though? Or maybe it simply an attitude that reinforces the belief that some cyclists see the rules of the road as being for other people?
No - there is no speed limit for bicycles in the UK. It's not the case that the rider can't be prosecuted, there is no offence.There is some confusion on the behalf of the Royal Parks Police on this one, which should be handled when a case of speeding finally goes to court, rather than the speeder opting to pay the fine to avoid the cost and inconvenience of getting a solicitor etc etc.
Your second sentence is interesting though - are you referring to motorised vehicles or bicycles here? From your paragraph structure it looks like you are trying to make the point that when a bicycle overtakes a motorised vehicle it causes chaos - can you back this up in anyway? The other way round, with an impatient motorist doing anything that they can to get past often does lead to an expensive accident.
Finally - before shouting "you don't obey the rules" it helps if you understand what the rules are, otherwise you might look like a bit of a wally.
Despite the park signs being out of date with regard to the speed limit and their applying to cycles, I confess I assumed limits applied to all road users. If that makes me a wally, then so be it.
With regard to those cyclists who go overtake cars in an irresponsible manner, no I don't have any proof other than having witnessed it for myself, on several occasions. Just as I have witnessed swarms of cyclists intimidate some drivers by riding in close proximity and on both sides.
With regard to those cyclists who go overtake cars in an irresponsible manner, no I don't have any proof other than having witnessed it for myself, on several occasions. Just as I have witnessed swarms of cyclists intimidate some drivers by riding in close proximity and on both sides.
Hmm... define irresponsible overtaking - is that when someone overtakes you rather than vice versa
TBH, Richmond park is utter anarchy, it's a terrible place to ride or drive. Personally I think it's also a poster child for why the '20 is plenty' brigade have missed the point entirely, all it does is bring cars and bikes into direct conflict.
Cars see a bike and assume it must be overtaken 'cos it's a bike. They then pass and almost always pull in too soon (once past their eyeline) because they can't comprehend the bike is going nearly as fast as they are.. having pulled in they then realise they're exceeding the speed limit and brake, nearly planting you in the back window. Every so often there's a really nasty accident usually caused by someone spotting deer and jamming on the brakes, firing a cyclist through the back window..
On the flipside, the bikes are slow in some places, and considerably faster in others. There's a certain well known club I (personally) think need a damn good talking to about behaving like they own the place and have a right to bully everyone off the road. There's also plenty of numpty cycling going on, presumably because it's seen as a 'safe' place away from the main roads.. and plenty of frustration with 'sunday drivers' wandering all over the place and stopping unpredictably.
Being realistic, if you are to venture in, you should not be doing so as part of an attempt to get somewhere. It's a 20 limit; chill a bit and accept it's a bunfight, toddle to a car-park and go for a walk. If you're actually going somewhere, there are far better options, just go round it.
To the OP's question, I think not. We've just become (particularly in this corner of the country), incredibly intolerant and self obsessed. We simply assign anyone who inconveniences us to a convenient tribe in order to justify our wrath..
TBH, Richmond park is utter anarchy, it's a terrible place to ride or drive. Personally I think it's also a poster child for why the '20 is plenty' brigade have missed the point entirely, all it does is bring cars and bikes into direct conflict.
Cars see a bike and assume it must be overtaken 'cos it's a bike. They then pass and almost always pull in too soon (once past their eyeline) because they can't comprehend the bike is going nearly as fast as they are.. having pulled in they then realise they're exceeding the speed limit and brake, nearly planting you in the back window. Every so often there's a really nasty accident usually caused by someone spotting deer and jamming on the brakes, firing a cyclist through the back window..
On the flipside, the bikes are slow in some places, and considerably faster in others. There's a certain well known club I (personally) think need a damn good talking to about behaving like they own the place and have a right to bully everyone off the road. There's also plenty of numpty cycling going on, presumably because it's seen as a 'safe' place away from the main roads.. and plenty of frustration with 'sunday drivers' wandering all over the place and stopping unpredictably.
Being realistic, if you are to venture in, you should not be doing so as part of an attempt to get somewhere. It's a 20 limit; chill a bit and accept it's a bunfight, toddle to a car-park and go for a walk. If you're actually going somewhere, there are far better options, just go round it.
To the OP's question, I think not. We've just become (particularly in this corner of the country), incredibly intolerant and self obsessed. We simply assign anyone who inconveniences us to a convenient tribe in order to justify our wrath..
otolith said:
vsonix said:
but the number of times that cyclists persist on using the road when there is a separate, protected cycle track running PARALLEL
Does it have priority at side roads? Is it shared with pedestrians? Is it suitable for cycling at 20mph on? If they aren't using it, it's probably because it is inferior to the road.I have noticed that drivers are more aggressive, in the south.
I have also noticed that cyclists are also more aggressive in the south.
Having experience of cycling in Derby and on the surrounding country roads, and experience of cycling in North Miseryside, I've recently brought my "second" bike down to Hemel Hempstead where I'm living 4 nights a week for the next 5 months. After a week, it's clear that people in the south are angry. They would rather die than give way, they'd rather drive over an old infirm pensioner half way across the road, than stop for 20 seconds. This evening I was verbally abused when I attempted to cross a main road, at a give way sign, where a queue of cars were all turning left. Not one driver would leave a space for a pedestrian (me) to cross in front of them.
If there are 2 lanes going onto a roundabout, and I as a cyclist were in the lane marked straight on and left, and I was planning on going straight on, they would overtake me, on the roundabout and turn left in front of me.
This DOES NOT HAPPEN in Derby, or Liverpool, or Southport, or Stoke on Trent. The driver, would wait to see what the cyclist is going to do, watch them go straight on, and then they would turn left.
If they saw some one waiting to cross in front of them, they would let them.
Mind you I've never seen a cyclist go through a red light apart from on Road wars.
I have also noticed that cyclists are also more aggressive in the south.
Having experience of cycling in Derby and on the surrounding country roads, and experience of cycling in North Miseryside, I've recently brought my "second" bike down to Hemel Hempstead where I'm living 4 nights a week for the next 5 months. After a week, it's clear that people in the south are angry. They would rather die than give way, they'd rather drive over an old infirm pensioner half way across the road, than stop for 20 seconds. This evening I was verbally abused when I attempted to cross a main road, at a give way sign, where a queue of cars were all turning left. Not one driver would leave a space for a pedestrian (me) to cross in front of them.
If there are 2 lanes going onto a roundabout, and I as a cyclist were in the lane marked straight on and left, and I was planning on going straight on, they would overtake me, on the roundabout and turn left in front of me.
This DOES NOT HAPPEN in Derby, or Liverpool, or Southport, or Stoke on Trent. The driver, would wait to see what the cyclist is going to do, watch them go straight on, and then they would turn left.
If they saw some one waiting to cross in front of them, they would let them.
Mind you I've never seen a cyclist go through a red light apart from on Road wars.
Biker's Nemesis said:
What in Gods name are you on about.
Please refrain from personal insults as I am sure I have not insulted you.
No memory of what you posted then? You were happily stating that other people should get out of your way, I was simply wondering why- and providing a possible answer.Please refrain from personal insults as I am sure I have not insulted you.
upsidedownmark said:
Hmm... define irresponsible overtaking - is that when someone overtakes you rather than vice versa
TBH, Richmond park is utter anarchy, it's a terrible place to ride or drive. Personally I think it's also a poster child for why the '20 is plenty' brigade have missed the point entirely, all it does is bring cars and bikes into direct conflict.
Cars see a bike and assume it must be overtaken 'cos it's a bike. They then pass and almost always pull in too soon (once past their eyeline) because they can't comprehend the bike is going nearly as fast as they are. having pulled in they then realise they're exceeding the speed limit and brake, nearly planting you in the back window. Every so often there's a really nasty accident usually caused by someone spotting deer and jamming on the brakes, firing a cyclist through the back window..
On the flipside, the bikes are slow in some places, and considerably faster in others. There's a certain well known club I (personally) think need a damn good talking to about behaving like they own the place and have a right to bully everyone off the road. There's also plenty of numpty cycling going on, presumably because it's seen as a 'safe' place away from the main roads.. and plenty of frustration with 'sunday drivers' wandering all over the place and stopping unpredictably.
The bit in bold is one of my biggest gripes when it comes to bad driving. I had it happen to me 3 times over the weekend, where I was overtaken and then the said car was going left or cut in quite sharply in front of me. All 3 times, I predicted it, with one in particular incident being a bit close for comfort.TBH, Richmond park is utter anarchy, it's a terrible place to ride or drive. Personally I think it's also a poster child for why the '20 is plenty' brigade have missed the point entirely, all it does is bring cars and bikes into direct conflict.
Cars see a bike and assume it must be overtaken 'cos it's a bike. They then pass and almost always pull in too soon (once past their eyeline) because they can't comprehend the bike is going nearly as fast as they are. having pulled in they then realise they're exceeding the speed limit and brake, nearly planting you in the back window. Every so often there's a really nasty accident usually caused by someone spotting deer and jamming on the brakes, firing a cyclist through the back window..
On the flipside, the bikes are slow in some places, and considerably faster in others. There's a certain well known club I (personally) think need a damn good talking to about behaving like they own the place and have a right to bully everyone off the road. There's also plenty of numpty cycling going on, presumably because it's seen as a 'safe' place away from the main roads.. and plenty of frustration with 'sunday drivers' wandering all over the place and stopping unpredictably.
Most people look at someone on a bike and think "it's only going slow, I can turn in front of it/get passed it easily", and don't think that a bike can be going at 20mph or even 30.
And as for cars showing a cuclist respect on a roundabout..well, that hardly ever happens, even taking the prime position.
Even afer all of that, I love being out on my bike, and in the whole, the vast majority of drivers go about their business without interfering with me and vice versa. It's just the few that almost kill you, are always the ones that you remember.
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