Prudential Ride London - start times

[walm]

*24,000

[walm]

I agree.
In fact, if you donate whatever the entrance fee was for non-charity participants then I have absolutely no problem at all - load up on feed and medals too.

I wouldn't do it myself as likewise I tend to be a sucker who follows the rules.
But I would have absolutely no problem with someone else coming along if they put a little charity money direct.

Finally - I could not agree more about charity fatigue.

There is simply no way I would ask anyone to sponsor me to do this (I was lucky enough to get a ballot place).

I WANT to do this ride. It will be fun.
If people want charity money from me then they have to suffer at least a little.

It would be like asking for money for a charity bungee jump or something.

[Type R Tom]

I've got a place and looking forward to it, though I'm rather nervous about it. Did the London to Brighton night ride on Saturday and really enjoyed it, was in a group of 4 but with massively varied speeds I was on my own for 90% of the time (we agreed to wait for each other at the stops, was a mistake as I ended up waiting 40 mins for one lad and I got really stiff). So I wouldn’t worry too much about cycling with mates and just chat to ransoms along the way. I’m Blue, Wave P, and Start 07:40, hoped for earlier than that to give me more time but there you go

Don’t know what I’m wearing as I need to buy some new clothes but I will be on a white 2013 Giant Defy 1 probably looking rather red!

[Daveyraveygravey]

Did it last year on a charity place, managed to raise over 600 quid for Alzheimers AND had the best day on a bike in my almost-50 years. I'd prefer not to ask friends family and colleagues to help me get in to one of the best cycling events in the world but hey I didn't get a ballot place.

[scubadude]

SR7492 said:

Funny, we were talking about this in the office and how easy/hard it would be 'pirate' the ride.

I guess you'd turn up and join somewhere at the start; I wouldn't be surprised if more did it this year.

Do people gate crash the London Marathon? (I understand the RideLondon is organised by the same people?) either way its a similar, popular mass participation event... if so what happens to rouge runners?

[Mr Will]

yellowjack said:

Right you lot.

Home truths time.

[snip]

So, to the grumps out there, get off the 'Charideee' high horse, live and let live, eh?

A few home truths for you then.

There were 80,000 applicants for the limited number of ballot places. Even if every single charity entry was scrapped, your odds of getting in would have been roughly the same.

They will be hurt far more by the fact that it is not a straight ballot. They want a mix of young and old, fast and slow, men and women, experienced and inexperienced and some of those "boxes" are far more over-subscribed than others. Taking a wild guess, you likely belong to the typical MAMIL box and I think you can imagine what the competition for that one is like.

Now, you claim that it isn't fair because some people who aren't you might drop out. Yes, yes they will but do you really think the organisers are so stupid that they don't expect that? They allocate a greater number of places than the number of riders that they want to account for this wastage.

As for your bug-bear about charities, yes I agree that charity fatigue is real but nobody is forcing you to go begging to your friends. If this is something you'd do for pleasure (rather than a big challenge) then raise the money another way. I've got a friend who's a keen cyclist so he's raising the money by organising a charity poker night. No begging required and people are more than happy to get involved. I think that the amount of charity money raised is likely instrumental in getting permission to close the roads. Without it we may have no event at all.

If you really can't stomach raising anything for charity then you have plenty of other options. You can ride 90+% of the route any time you like, including all the interesting bits. You can't "set a time" but it's not a race anyway! You can sign up for any of the other closed-roads sportives happening here or abroad. Finally (and this one is revolutionary!) - Join a cycling club! Yes, cycling clubs get allocated spaces on the RideLondon as a way of getting a large number of keen and competent cyclists on board. Really want a place then get involved with your local cycling club and one will be handed to you on a plate next year!

As for safety, yes one or two extra riders won't make a difference but what about the other 70,000 who didn't get places? Should they just join in too? It might not be sneaking in to an endurance race but I bet you'd pretty irate if someone snuck in to your next track-day without paying.

But of course, YOU deserve a place more than those who got them, don't you? It's so unfair...

[upsidedownmark]

^^ times a lot.

[yellowjack]

Er, Mr Will? Calm down dear.

Absolutely NONE of my post was "Me, Me, Me!" as you seem to have presumed. Mainly because I didn't apply for a place in the ballot this year

And, for the record, regardless of what the organisers say, many entrants very much DO regard it as a race, or at least a timed challenge. Which it is, because if it were not, then the organisers would not have funded timing chips and mats for every 'official' rider. Many posts on this, and related threads, are evidence of that.

It may well also be true that I fall into the 'MAMIL' category. This pisses me off greatly, because I have cycled my entire life, on all manner of low cost bikes, in everything from jeans and a t-shirt, through full No 8 dress with helmet and webbing, to a lycra PH jersey and bib shorts. I'm certainly not the 'merchant banker' who just spunked his bonus on a Dogma and a full Rapha 'suit' because "cycling's cool again".

I may wear Lycra, carry a little extra weight, and be in my forties, but that, I'm afraid is where any similarity ends.

Once again. For the hard of learning. Not once in my post did I wail, nor moan, about ME, and MY not getting a place on the RideLondon. It was a riposte to those who are very quick to use the hand-wringing "but you're not GIVING!" when someone else even mentions the remote possibility of gatecrashing the party. How do you presume to tell the selfish gatecrasher who never donated a penny in his life from another 'unofficial' rider who may well be the greatest living philanthropist in the country?

As far as "if it weren't for the money raised, there'd be no event" goes? Plenty of cities around the world have dabbled with the concept of 'car free days' in major city centres. Hell, some local councils even permit (residential) road closures to allow kids to play in them, and for neighbours to feel free to mingle. Maybe it's about time that those in authority stopped pissing about, and got serious about promoting cycling with a lot more 'car free' (and cost free) days in major urban centres...


...at the end of the day, I don't come on here for an argument. I presented a differing opinion to a debate, you disagree with me, and because that's what forums and debates are supposed to be about, that's cool with me. Quite often I type st into forums, and read it back thinking "that sounds a bit harsh - I'm gonna get flamed here" and then I get a number of other posters agreeing with the point. Sometimes I'm just the one with the thickest skin, the point man, if you like, for a different view. Other times I get rightly roasted, but that's OK too. I can assure you, the internet doesn't have weapons of sufficient calibre to even register on a hide this thick, and I don't tend to alter my opinion to fit in with what's fashionable, I like to ask questions, and make up my own mind...

[SR7492]

scubadude said:

Do people gate crash the London Marathon? (I understand the RideLondon is organised by the same people?) either way its a similar, popular mass participation event... if so what happens to rouge runners?

For the record, the conversation wasn't about us 'pirating' the event, more so how it can/can't be done generally.

I or my cycling buddies have no desire to unofficially travel 230 miles into London, stay the night and then 'jump on' the sportive as freeloaders!

I did the Stage 1 of the TdF route last month through a charity, I got chatting to a couple of blokes who joined in from Harewood House - these guys weren't registered etc. Did it bother me? No and to be honest, I couldn't care less. I know this isn't the same for everyone and I'm sure someone else in the same situation might not have been to kind to these guys with words.

[SR7492]

yellowjack said:

...at the end of the day, I don't come on here for an argument. I presented a differing opinion to a debate, you disagree with me, and because that's what forums and debates are supposed to be about, that's cool with me. Quite often I type st into forums, and read it back thinking "that sounds a bit harsh - I'm gonna get flamed here" and then I get a number of other posters agreeing with the point. Sometimes I'm just the one with the thickest skin, the point man, if you like, for a different view. Other times I get rightly roasted, but that's OK too. I can assure you, the internet doesn't have weapons of sufficient calibre to even register on a hide this thick, and I don't tend to alter my opinion to fit in with what's fashionable, I like to ask questions, and make up my own mind...

Well, I found your angle on the issue interesting :-)

[yellowjack]

I just don't see it as being all that different to 'hooking up' with a 'normal' sportive. The only difference being the road closures. And the only reason for the road closures is the pro race (Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic) that takes place on as near as makes no odds the same course. The amateur event is just taking advantage of the existing closure. I would suggest that some chancers tagging along with the 'Classic' would a) soon be dropped, and b) be dealt with appropriately by members of the local Constabulary. Those who jump onto the route while the amateurs are on it, not such a biggy.

If I were to be out and about when a Wiggle event was in progress, there'd be no authority for the organisers to marshal me, nor to permit me to ride the course or not. Public roads, open to the public. Like I say, that's the ONLY difference between a local event and the RideLondon - the road closures - and they are not put in place solely for assorted MAMILS, nodders, Doris the Parish Clerk and a few nutters on Boris Bikes to have a nice day out round the Surrey lanes.

I've ridden along with a couple of charity rides in the past. Not registered, not 'invading' their event, just happened to be on the same road at the same time. For the most part the riders I joined were happy to have a change in the company, and the extra encouragement fresh legs can provide. Those that weren't happy to have company were largely indifferent, and either dropped me, or were dropped. I took a load of photos of a charity event (mainstream charity) about 18 months ago, when they happened to ride up a hill in South Wales as I was trying to practice my landscape photography. I then tried to find the event to offer up my (average) pictures for free to the participants. Google didn't help, nor did an appeal on here, but I tried my best to find them and offer the pictures. Charity isn't always about raising cash, and smug 'cheque handover' photos for the MBE portfolio. Sometimes getting ones hands dirty can be as useful as a hatful of cash

[Mr Will]

yellowjack said:

Once again. For the hard of learning. Not once in my post did I wail, nor moan, about ME, and MY not getting a place on the RideLondon. It was a riposte to those who are very quick to use the hand-wringing "but you're not GIVING!" when someone else even mentions the remote possibility of gatecrashing the party.

Show me a "but you're not GIVING!" post anywhere in this thread?

Would you say that it's okay to gatecrash the London Marathon as well?

[walm]

Mr Will said:

Show me a "but you're not GIVING!" post anywhere in this thread?

Would you say that it's okay to gatecrash the London Marathon as well?

Rob_T said:

Not sure that's the spirit or the attitude really...

[Mr Will]

walm said:

Mr Will said:

Show me a "but you're not GIVING!" post anywhere in this thread?

Would you say that it's okay to gatecrash the London Marathon as well?

Rob_T said:

Not sure that's the spirit or the attitude really...

Says nothing about giving. Try again.

[walm]

Mr Will said:

walm said:

Mr Will said:

Show me a "but you're not GIVING!" post anywhere in this thread?

Would you say that it's okay to gatecrash the London Marathon as well?

Rob_T said:

Not sure that's the spirit or the attitude really...

Says nothing about giving. Try again.

Not explicitly but what do you think he means?

I inferred from it that "the spirit" is some sort of "we all raised money or paid through the nose to do this" type camaraderie.

That is the only difference between a gatecrasher and a regular rider.

[Mr Will]

walm said:

Not explicitly but what do you think he means?

I inferred from it that "the spirit" is some sort of "we all raised money or paid through the nose to do this" type camaraderie.

That is the only difference between a gatecrasher and a regular rider.

Showing your own prejudice there. This is supposed to be a closed roads sportive for a limited number of riders. If an extra 10,000 riders turned up, don't you think it would spoil the day for those who are supposed to be there?

As for "Paid through the nose" I don't know what you're getting at. It's slightly more expensive than the average sportive but not much and it's cheaper than a lot of equivalent events.

Returning to an earlier analogy - is it "against the spirit" if I turn up at the next brands-hatch trackday and sneak on to the track without paying? For that matter, would it be "against the spirit" if I turned up to this: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and met the rest of the PH guys just outside the circuit and then rode the full distance with them without paying? I think so.

[walm]

Mr Will said:

Returning to an earlier analogy - is it "against the spirit" if I turn up at the next brands-hatch trackday and sneak on to the track without paying? For that matter, would it be "against the spirit" if I turned up to this: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and met the rest of the PH guys just outside the circuit and then rode the full distance with them without paying? I think so.

Exactly - you haven't paid (£100 is a lot more than £ZERO) or you haven't raised enough money to get a free spot.

So - "the spirit" is all to do with paying your dues as it were. For the vast majority that would be dues to a charity (i.e. "giving") - no?

[yellowjack]

Mr Will said:

Show me a "but you're not GIVING!" post anywhere in this thread?

Would you say that it's okay to gatecrash the London Marathon as well?

Walm has dealt with the first point admirably, despite your attempts at being 'difficult'.

The London Marathon point? I'm not sure really. It would definitely be out of order to 'infiltrate' the 'elite' RACE element of the marathon, and I'm pretty sure the 'amateur' followers-on are billed as participating in a 'race' too. However, given the number of kooky costumed entries and people appearing to take it all not very seriously at all, I don't think that much harm would be caused by some chancers tagging along at the back of the field. Especially since the event doesn't have a 'broom wagon' what's purpose is to clear the route for the professional athletes (because, of course, they went first ). So long as the chancers are clear of the course by the time the roads re-open, what possible harm are they likely to cause?

As another poster put it, somewhere above, a lot of people asking this sort of question are doing no more than 'thinking aloud'. I wouldn't travel to London to 'gatecrash' the marathon any more than I'd go to ride the cycle event 'unofficially'. Some folk might, but I'd hazard a guess that they'd be fairly local to it, or have local 'support' and accommodation. I'd similarly wager that few, if any, 'chancers' would travel far, or at any significant expense "on the off chance" of getting away with it. I also think that this thread hijack has run it's course now, and it should get back to the original subject of start times, etc, in order that those lucky PHers who got places on the event might conspire to meet up and 'make beautiful pelotons' together.

Best of luck to all those lucky PHers, and in fact all riders in the event. I very much look forward to the inevitable "how fast did you ride it" and "what time did you get" type threads that this "non-race" will surely spawn before the pro race even finishes

I'll also keep a close eye on the media for the numbers/percentages of no-shows and DNFs, but I'll promise to try to hide my bitterness

[Mr Will]

walm said:

Exactly - you haven't paid (£100 is a lot more than £ZERO) or you haven't raised enough money to get a free spot.

So - "the spirit" is all to do with paying your dues as it were. For the vast majority that would be dues to a charity (i.e. "giving") - no?

Where is the £100 figure coming from? The vast majority are ballot places, not charity.

The spirit being a legitimate part of something, not gatecrashing and potentially spoiling someone elses day. How much you've paid to be there doesn't come in to it. Dan from PH has been invited by Skoda so isn't paying a penny but he's as much a legitimate part of the day as any of the other riders.

Is it okay for me to gatecrash the London Marathon?
Is it okay for me to sneak in to a trackday?
Is it okay for me to attend a sportive and ride the full route without paying?
Is it okay for me to bring 20 uninvited mates to your barbecue as long as we don't eat your food?

If not, why is the RideLondon different?

[upsidedownmark]

yellowjack said:

I just don't see it as being all that different to 'hooking up' with a 'normal' sportive. The only difference being the road closures. And the only reason for the road closures is the pro race (Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic) that takes place on as near as makes no odds the same course. The amateur event is just taking advantage of the existing closure. I would suggest that some chancers tagging along with the 'Classic' would a) soon be dropped, and b) be dealt with appropriately by members of the local Constabulary. Those who jump onto the route while the amateurs are on it, not such a biggy.

If I were to be out and about when a Wiggle event was in progress, there'd be no authority for the organisers to marshal me, nor to permit me to ride the course or not. Public roads, open to the public. Like I say, that's the ONLY difference between a local event and the RideLondon - the road closures - and they are not put in place solely for assorted MAMILS, nodders, Doris the Parish Clerk and a few nutters on Boris Bikes to have a nice day out round the Surrey lanes.

I've ridden along with a couple of charity rides in the past. Not registered, not 'invading' their event, just happened to be on the same road at the same time. For the most part the riders I joined were happy to have a change in the company, and the extra encouragement fresh legs can provide. Those that weren't happy to have company were largely indifferent, and either dropped me, or were dropped. I took a load of photos of a charity event (mainstream charity) about 18 months ago, when they happened to ride up a hill in South Wales as I was trying to practice my landscape photography. I then tried to find the event to offer up my (average) pictures for free to the participants. Google didn't help, nor did an appeal on here, but I tried my best to find them and offer the pictures. Charity isn't always about raising cash, and smug 'cheque handover' photos for the MBE portfolio. Sometimes getting ones hands dirty can be as useful as a hatful of cash

FWIW yellowjack, I interpreted 'you' as a general identification of a third party who would 'gatecrash', rather than a specific 'yellowjack'...

That said, I believe you're mistaken on a few points. RL is very different to the average sportif in both scale and road closures. The road closures are made for both events; you simply could not run that many participants safely on open roads, even for the sportif. If it was just for the race, the roads would be closed for a few hours in the afternoon, not a full day.

Also the sportif start is scheduled by anticipated completion time; perfect it is not, but it does attempt to separate the fast riders from the nodders. The ends of those scales are very different events I'm quite sure.

Last year I didn't get in, certainly didn't think to gatecrash. This year I missed out in the ballot again - fortunately I did get a 'team' place through my club, so I will be riding, but I still wouldn't have gatecrashed. Nothing to do with rules, just basic respect.

I don't have a particular opinion on the charity side (other than I wouldn't go that route), but at the end of the day you'll have a hard time convincing me that gatecrashing is anything less than pure selfishness.