Prudential Ride London - start times
Discussion
Mr Will said:
How much you've paid to be there doesn't come in to it...
Yet...Mr Will said:
Is it okay for me to attend a sportive and ride the full route without paying?
I am confused here now!I think I paid £100 for my ballot place. Can't really remember.
For the trackday and BBQ examples - the addition of a couple extra people can make a significant difference to the legitimate participants enjoyment.
To suggest 10k people will turn up and gatecrash the RideLondon is... mad!
A few people will gatecrash - what is the realistic extreme - 1,000?
Given that the number of no-shows will probably be that high - clearly my enjoyment of the event will not be impacted by gatecrashers.
The London Marathon is a good example.
And I have to admit I feel gatecrashers here are far less welcome.
Again though I think that is because the marathon is far more obviously CHARITY.
yellowjack said:
Walm has dealt with the first point admirably, despite your attempts at being 'difficult'.
So your essay was a response to a single line in a single post?yellowjack said:
The London Marathon point? I'm not sure really. It would definitely be out of order to 'infiltrate' the 'elite' RACE element of the marathon, and I'm pretty sure the 'amateur' followers-on are billed as participating in a 'race' too. However, given the number of kooky costumed entries and people appearing to take it all not very seriously at all, I don't think that much harm would be caused by some chancers tagging along at the back of the field. Especially since the event doesn't have a 'broom wagon' what's purpose is to clear the route for the professional athletes (because, of course, they went first 
). So long as the chancers are clear of the course by the time the roads re-open, what possible harm are they likely to cause?
A few wouldn't cause any harm, but would still be anti-social. A large number could cause problems. It's "Against the spirit" in my book either way. ). So long as the chancers are clear of the course by the time the roads re-open, what possible harm are they likely to cause?yellowjack said:
As another poster put it, somewhere above, a lot of people asking this sort of question are doing no more than 'thinking aloud'. I wouldn't travel to London to 'gatecrash' the marathon any more than I'd go to ride the cycle event 'unofficially'. Some folk might, but I'd hazard a guess that they'd be fairly local to it, or have local 'support' and accommodation. I'd similarly wager that few, if any, 'chancers' would travel far, or at any significant expense "on the off chance" of getting away with it. I also think that this thread hijack has run it's course now, and it should get back to the original subject of start times, etc, in order that those lucky PHers who got places on the event might conspire to meet up and 'make beautiful pelotons' together.
Best of luck to all those lucky PHers, and in fact all riders in the event. I very much look forward to the inevitable "how fast did you ride it" and "what time did you get" type threads that this "non-race" will surely spawn before the pro race even finishes
I'll also keep a close eye on the media for the numbers/percentages of no-shows and DNFs, but I'll promise to try to hide my bitterness
Agreed. Let's return this thread to it's roots. I think we've both made our positions clear. Best of luck to all those lucky PHers, and in fact all riders in the event. I very much look forward to the inevitable "how fast did you ride it" and "what time did you get" type threads that this "non-race" will surely spawn before the pro race even finishes
I'll also keep a close eye on the media for the numbers/percentages of no-shows and DNFs, but I'll promise to try to hide my bitterness
oyster said:
It's not morally right to gatecrash the event.
It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
As event organisers I think it is for them to decide who they allow to enter the ride. Your approval or otherwise on grounds of what is moral and what is not is a nonsense and irrelevant.It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
Shame on you if you gatecrash. You're coming across like one of those cycling anarchists that attend these Critical Mass events looking for confrontation. Vile behaviour.
oyster said:
It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
They are much more intelligent about this than you are giving them credit for. They wanted ~15,000 finishers last year so offered 20,000 places. There were about 3500 no-shows, 1500 started but didn't finish and (surprise, surprise) just over 15,000 finishers. The "wastage" was taken in to account from the very start of the planning process. If they wanted 20,000 finishers they'd offer ~26,500 places.oyster said:
It's not morally right to gatecrash the event.
It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
I don't think they do "restrict entry to capable cyclists". The whole point of the event is that "anyone" can do it with a little training, something which Boris made a big deal about before and after last year's event. Sure, they need to explain to people who haven't ridden a bike more than 5 miles or ridden in 30 years that they will have to get out there and do some training, and I think that makes it a better day for all - the stewards, first aiders, organisers as well as participants. In my experience last year, there were fewer no hopers than on London to Brighton; I certainly had no problem getting up any of the hills because of walkers, which will happen on L2B if you leave after 6 am.It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
If they had half a million spaces on the event, they would probably be over-subscribed, such is the current popularity of cycling.
The entry fee via the ballot was £45 (I think, or £50) certainly not £100, and when most other sportives are £35+, it isn't "paying through the nose" if you are lucky enough to get a ballot place.
If you get a charity place, you also pay the £45 entry fee and are asked to raise a minimum of £500 (there are a couple of smaller charites that ask less, but the vast majority are £500 or more). You could choose to pay that yourself (or a percentage of it) or you can try and raise money through whatever channels are open to you.
If you get a charity place, you also pay the £45 entry fee and are asked to raise a minimum of £500 (there are a couple of smaller charites that ask less, but the vast majority are £500 or more). You could choose to pay that yourself (or a percentage of it) or you can try and raise money through whatever channels are open to you.
Daveyraveygravey said:
The entry fee via the ballot was £45 (I think, or £50) certainly not £100, and when most other sportives are £35+, it isn't "paying through the nose" if you are lucky enough to get a ballot place.
In that case the Tough Mudder I did was a complete and utter rip-off.I knew I paid for two events that needed training this year - one cost £100+ and one was much less.
I assumed the one that actually required hundreds of people to run and CLOSING 100 MILES OF ROAD - would be the expensive one. (Rather than the one that appeared to be run by an extended family and constructed about 10 pathetic obstacles on a farm.)
Don't do the Tough Mudder. What a scam.
I still stand by the suggestion that gatecrashers are perfectly fine by me - even more so considering the damn thing was so cheap(-ish).
Rob_T said:
oyster said:
It's not morally right to gatecrash the event.
It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
As event organisers I think it is for them to decide who they allow to enter the ride. Your approval or otherwise on grounds of what is moral and what is not is a nonsense and irrelevant.It's also not morally right for the organisers to restrict entry to capable cyclists in order to reserve spaces for those unlikely to be capable of completing (or even starting) the event.
I am still undecided on whether I'll gatecrash.
Shame on you if you gatecrash. You're coming across like one of those cycling anarchists that attend these Critical Mass events looking for confrontation. Vile behaviour.
I doubt the addition of a few hundred 'extras' will make much difference.
yellowjack said:
Right you lot.
Home truths time.
Charities hoover up too many places on the ride, then desperately try to get riders to fill them. To the extent that they massively reduce 'fundraising targets' to entice people to fill them.
Some people are heartily sick of charity rides. Especially those where there is no 'non-charity' entry option. It's been said many times on this very forum, that cyclists are (rightly) embarrassed by having to press their friends/family/colleagues/strangers for money for charities they've never heard of in order to pursue their hobby. It's an even tougher ask when every third person is asking for donations for this and that, especially when times are hard/funds are tight.
People sign up thinking it'll be a breeze, or promising they'll train for it, or certain they'll get time off work for it. Then they bail, leaving rider slots unfilled on the day, frustrating many riders who would move heaven and earth to have a crack at it. Some can afford the entry, but not the cost/effort of the logistics of riding, especially those from out of town. Hell, some successful entrants have admitted on social media that they don't even OWN a bloody bike. How the hell does that work?
The rider limits are in place for many reasons. Mostly for admin/logistics reasons at the start/finish. Batched starts sort out safety at the start line, and natural variations in ability sort out safety during the course, and at the finish line.
The roads are closed to 'motor vehicles'. The closures affect everyone. If 250,000 'randomly' selected riders are fine to ride on these 'closed roads' then what difference does a few extra make, so long as they don't use the feed stations, or claim 'finishers medals'? There is more than enough space on the roads for everyone, far more, in fact, than on something like the L2B Ride.
Those who have been mugged off for a place will once again be rightly pissed off when the attendance figures are released, and once again a significant percentage will fail to start or DNF. The more often this happens, the more likely riders are to want to join the route 'unofficially'.
None of this makes it 'right' to join the route without being officially accepted as an entrant, but I can see why some folk are happy to chance their arm. And for all those who think that 'marshals' with shepherds' crooks are waiting around every corner to 'hoick' out the unofficial riders, have another think about it. Do you really see men and women in yellow bibs dodging fast moving bicycles and putting themselves, and 'official' riders at risk to weed out a few chancers, even if they do spot them? Not a hope.
I'm not going to ride unofficially (I'm too much of a rule-follower ), but let's face it, the argument that you could "ride it yourself on any ordinary day" doesn't hold water at all. Because of the road closures the route will almost certainly (as TdF and ToB routes have) travel the 'wrong' way down one-way systems and it'll be impossible to 'get a time' due to regular traffic and junctions/traffic signals on an 'ordinary' day.
This is just a case of amateurs joining amateurs, too, so no danger with mis-matched ability either. It's not like some Chav in a Polo joining an endurance race at Brands Hatch
So, to the grumps out there, get off the 'Charideee' high horse, live and let live, eh?
As someone who has entered this and also has run the VLM (and raised £15k for a local charity) 2 years ago, I've got to say that your post is not only uninformed but also pretty disrespectful. There are no actual facts in it, just a lot of your opinions that you're regurgitating as fact.Home truths time.
Charities hoover up too many places on the ride, then desperately try to get riders to fill them. To the extent that they massively reduce 'fundraising targets' to entice people to fill them.
Some people are heartily sick of charity rides. Especially those where there is no 'non-charity' entry option. It's been said many times on this very forum, that cyclists are (rightly) embarrassed by having to press their friends/family/colleagues/strangers for money for charities they've never heard of in order to pursue their hobby. It's an even tougher ask when every third person is asking for donations for this and that, especially when times are hard/funds are tight.
People sign up thinking it'll be a breeze, or promising they'll train for it, or certain they'll get time off work for it. Then they bail, leaving rider slots unfilled on the day, frustrating many riders who would move heaven and earth to have a crack at it. Some can afford the entry, but not the cost/effort of the logistics of riding, especially those from out of town. Hell, some successful entrants have admitted on social media that they don't even OWN a bloody bike. How the hell does that work?
The rider limits are in place for many reasons. Mostly for admin/logistics reasons at the start/finish. Batched starts sort out safety at the start line, and natural variations in ability sort out safety during the course, and at the finish line.
The roads are closed to 'motor vehicles'. The closures affect everyone. If 250,000 'randomly' selected riders are fine to ride on these 'closed roads' then what difference does a few extra make, so long as they don't use the feed stations, or claim 'finishers medals'? There is more than enough space on the roads for everyone, far more, in fact, than on something like the L2B Ride.
Those who have been mugged off for a place will once again be rightly pissed off when the attendance figures are released, and once again a significant percentage will fail to start or DNF. The more often this happens, the more likely riders are to want to join the route 'unofficially'.
None of this makes it 'right' to join the route without being officially accepted as an entrant, but I can see why some folk are happy to chance their arm. And for all those who think that 'marshals' with shepherds' crooks are waiting around every corner to 'hoick' out the unofficial riders, have another think about it. Do you really see men and women in yellow bibs dodging fast moving bicycles and putting themselves, and 'official' riders at risk to weed out a few chancers, even if they do spot them? Not a hope.
I'm not going to ride unofficially (I'm too much of a rule-follower
), but let's face it, the argument that you could "ride it yourself on any ordinary day" doesn't hold water at all. Because of the road closures the route will almost certainly (as TdF and ToB routes have) travel the 'wrong' way down one-way systems and it'll be impossible to 'get a time' due to regular traffic and junctions/traffic signals on an 'ordinary' day.This is just a case of amateurs joining amateurs, too, so no danger with mis-matched ability either. It's not like some Chav in a Polo joining an endurance race at Brands Hatch
So, to the grumps out there, get off the 'Charideee' high horse, live and let live, eh?
It's not really worth setting your straight as I can tell you're fully entrenched but I do seem to remember (from the L2B thread that you jumped in on to criticise depsite not riding it or wanting to) that you've never entered a sportive or any other organised group ride and therefore your opinion on this isn't really required or helpful, thanks.
I detest people who bypass the official entry of runs/rides as if they're the most important people in the world and it's perfectly OK to gatecrash other people's days.
Fotic said:
As someone who has entered this and also has run the VLM (and raised £15k for a local charity) 2 years ago, I've got to say that your post is not only uninformed but also pretty disrespectful. There are no actual facts in it, just a lot of your opinions that you're regurgitating as fact.
It's not really worth setting your straight as I can tell you're fully entrenched but I do seem to remember (from the L2B thread that you jumped in on to criticise depsite not riding it or wanting to) that you've never entered a sportive or any other organised group ride and therefore your opinion on this isn't really required or helpful, thanks.
I detest people who bypass the official entry of runs/rides as if they're the most important people in the world and it's perfectly OK to gatecrash other people's days.
My post may well be uninformed. In YOUR opinion (which isn't fact any more than mine is). Nowhere in my post did I claim to be in possession of facts, nor did I represent my opinion as such. Forums are absolutely the correct place to present opinions for discussion. If you want facts, go edit a Wikipedia entry - the internet is full of facts. It's not really worth setting your straight as I can tell you're fully entrenched but I do seem to remember (from the L2B thread that you jumped in on to criticise depsite not riding it or wanting to) that you've never entered a sportive or any other organised group ride and therefore your opinion on this isn't really required or helpful, thanks.
I detest people who bypass the official entry of runs/rides as if they're the most important people in the world and it's perfectly OK to gatecrash other people's days.
Again. The L2B thread? No criticism intended there, I'm afraid. I read reviews and blogs which informed my opinion, and I 'came clean' and 'fessed up' to the fact that it wasn't first hand knowledge. And again, it's an open forum, so it's entirely appropriate for a person, solicited or not, informed or otherwise, to air their opinion on any subject they choose. Don't like it? Then either don't waste time reading it, or sign up to a 'closed' forum where it's 'members only' and the narrow minded can hide from people who disagree with them.
I'm torn with regard to your last point. Yes, I would find it hard to accept if someone were to gatecrash the elite Marathon, or get in the way of the pro peloton in the RideLondon Surrey Classic RACE, but I have absolutely no problem with non-payers riding on public roads at the same time as an organised event (provided they don't take anything others have paid for). I have shared the roads with a number of sportives and charity rides. Not whole routes, but I just so happened to plan my route, unaware of the organised event, and ended up sharing part of their route. What difference does it make? None whatsoever. If someone gatecrashes a closed road event on a bicycle, no problem. It may not be 'in the spirit' of the event, but it's wholly different to someone doing so in a car or on a motorbike, and causing actual danger. As the whole purpose of the RideLondon is to celebrate and encourage cycling, then if there are gatecrashers, it can be proven to have achieved it's aim, no? At no point did I encourage gatecrashers, nor did I ever suggest I'd actually bother to trek up to London to join in without a 'pass' but hey, I didn't sign up to PH to argue with randoms on t'internet, so I'm not going to start now.
Mr Will and I found ourselves having differing opinions, and we agreed to leave it there, to try not to derail the thread. Congratulations, Fotic. You've successfully continued the derailment, "as if you're the most important person in the world". Stop gatecrashing other people's threads....
As for "(and raised £15k for a local charity)" ?
Congratulations. That's brilliant. Genuinely, I mean that. That's a lot of money, especially, I imagine, if it's a genuinely 'local' charity. I couldn't begin to imagine raising that kind of cash, I wouldn't know where to start. I spent three months in Kenya, lending my skills to a project which in that short time built a doctor's surgery, pharmacy, staff bungalows, classrooms and a tool store for an educational charity which helped remote Masai tribespeople get more out of their land and livestock, and built (from scratch) an airstrip to allow visits by the flying doctor, and also enlarged their waterhole by 50% to help in the dry season. Which is what I meant by lending a hand instead of raising cash. Neither is more 'worthy' than the other, and charities need both kinds of help. It just so happens that you evidently have the talents required to get folk to part with cash, I'm happier grafting as my contribution. Horses for courses.
yellowjack said:
Home truths time.
The roads are closed to 'motor vehicles'.
Are you 100% sure about this? Don't want to p1ss on folks' chips but it might be worth checking out the actual closure order(s). The roads are closed to 'motor vehicles'.
On the Isle of Mull and Berwickshire, the councils close the roads to permit car rallies to take place. The "road closure" applies to motor vehicles, cycles, people, animals etc and in fact in is an offence for any of these to be on the road (or passing places or indeed verges).
I've no idea what the closure order looks like for the Ride London, whether by entering officially you are legally permitted to traverse a closed road. Food for thought?
Aside = concurrently, an act of parliament suspends the road traffic act allowing the competing cars to drive above the speed limit.
@donfisher; @thepawbroon - as ever, I'm more than happy to be corrected, with regard to both facts (I don't always get them right) and opinion (I'm willing to debate a point, and happy to change an opinion based on new evidence). There are few subjects on which my opinion is entrenched to the extent where it becomes immovable.
I expressed an opinion, it was agreed and disagreed with in varying measure. That's it really. I don't come into PedalPowered to argue, so I won't.
Back to discussing "Prudential Ride London - start times" now please. I've said my piece on the subject, and apologise once again for sending things off on a tangent.
I expressed an opinion, it was agreed and disagreed with in varying measure. That's it really. I don't come into PedalPowered to argue, so I won't.
Back to discussing "Prudential Ride London - start times" now please. I've said my piece on the subject, and apologise once again for sending things off on a tangent.
As a minor aside. Somebody from my cycling group has a place that now can't use. He's said I can have it but this can't be done officially through the organisers as has already been pointed out on this post they assume a certain percentage of no shows.
He has sent me all the info and it appears that if a rider can not make to the Excel to register that can send somebody on their behalf with the appropriate paperwork. If were to do this 'for him' and then use use his number etc would I be able to ride without any further checks on the day?
Any experience of this much appreciated, thanks.
He has sent me all the info and it appears that if a rider can not make to the Excel to register that can send somebody on their behalf with the appropriate paperwork. If were to do this 'for him' and then use use his number etc would I be able to ride without any further checks on the day?
Any experience of this much appreciated, thanks.
jcosh said:
As a minor aside. Somebody from my cycling group has a place that now can't use. He's said I can have it but this can't be done officially through the organisers as has already been pointed out on this post they assume a certain percentage of no shows.
He has sent me all the info and it appears that if a rider can not make to the Excel to register that can send somebody on their behalf with the appropriate paperwork. If were to do this 'for him' and then use use his number etc would I be able to ride without any further checks on the day?
Any experience of this much appreciated, thanks.
Last year this loophole was open. No way of knowing whether further ID checks will be in place this year. He has sent me all the info and it appears that if a rider can not make to the Excel to register that can send somebody on their behalf with the appropriate paperwork. If were to do this 'for him' and then use use his number etc would I be able to ride without any further checks on the day?
Any experience of this much appreciated, thanks.
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