Eventually went for Mavic Kyserium Elites but seem hard work

Eventually went for Mavic Kyserium Elites but seem hard work

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aea730

Original Poster:

366 posts

194 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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After a posting on here and looking at various forums I splashed £460 on the Mav K E wheel set . I've ridden the bike twice on them and compared to previous set they just seem to take more effort to spin along.

Admittedly both my rides (70 milers) have been in breezy conditions and in the recent high temperatures but I seem to have to put in more effort to travel at my usual travelling speed.

Downhill they are tremendous. I think I need to put a few more miles in yet and perhaps swap back to my originals to compare my perceptions.

The tyres are the mavic ones which although 23's they look a little more fatty than my Vitoria rubinos

I was running Campagnolo Vento G3 's so I would like to think I have "upgraded"

Any comments?

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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You should have bought them from wiggle.
That way, if you felt tired there woukd be haribo smile

aea730

Original Poster:

366 posts

194 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Some Gump said:
You should have bought them from wiggle.
That way, if you felt tired there woukd be haribo smile

jrb43

793 posts

254 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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Oh, I think you've definitely upgraded smile

I think you're observing a couple of different effects:

1) Aero spokes are never good in wind that isn't travelling directly front to back and if it's blustery, you really will be "churning" air. I can't quite tell but I think you're on a deeper rim as well which compounds the problem. A deep rim at an angle to the airflow is like riding through soup. Wait until a nice calm day, or indeed a group ride when you spend time in the wheels and you will find yourself flying.

2) I don't recognise those tyres but I'd hazard a guess that Mavic didn't spend more than 5p on them. They're probably not only wide but heavy and stiff too. When you've forgotten how much you've just lashed out on wheels, get some decent tyres. The Rubbinos are definitely a good start, or think about some conti GP 4000s or Michelin Pro Race. With rotational weight, the further it is from the fulcrum, the bigger the difference so you really can feel the difference with a heavy tyre.

Andy OH

1,903 posts

249 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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The Mavic tyres that are on the Ksyriums are probably useless. Get some GP 4000s II's on them and you'll see a difference.

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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^ maybe, but mavic tyres on mavic wheels always look quite cool, the way the logos line up. I tried to create the same effect by writing vittoria zafiro on my rims in biro, but my wheels still outshone the tyres.

aea730

Original Poster:

366 posts

194 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
I see what you mean. Certainly the winds have been quartering most of the time. And yes they are a slightly deeper section rim

In terms of the tyres they are a mavic grip link which seem to retail at over £30 each so I was hoping I was getting something of a reasonable quality. Anyway I'm persevering with the wheels and swapping my vittorias onto them

RGambo

847 posts

168 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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I'll agree, the mavic tyres that come on those wheels are not good. I wasn't a huge subscriber to the benefits of 'good' tyres, but I was not massively happy with my mavic cosmic SLE , then I put vittoria open corse tyres on, BIG improvement!

okgo

37,860 posts

197 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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The tyres are good tyres - they're not the culprit, they're far better than Rubinos which are an ok training tyre.

nammynake

2,587 posts

172 months

Monday 21st July 2014
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Mavic Yksion Pro tyres? They're good tyres and comparable with GP4000s (I use both). The spokes are quite wide so could be just catching the wind on a blustery day - stick with them...unless you have bought a defective set. I really rate my Ksyriums.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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Ye gods. Ksyriums aren't a deep section wheel, there's some proper nonsense about aero going on here. If bladed spokes churned so much and only worked at 0 deg of yaw, then they wouldn't be on most high end wheelsets - when was the last time you rode any significant percentage of a ride at 0 yaw?

To the OP: Frankly it's been pretty damn hot, and wind is hard to quantify. Unless they're installed badly and rubbing (brakes, frame), or the bearings are shot, it's in your head.. Even if all of what's been suggested here is true, it would hardly add up to anything noticeable.

To the person with the vision 30's - they're barely a deep wheel either. What you're seeing is almost certainly the difference in a bike with a racier geometry (less trail) and half a ton less weight. It's more agile, but equally more reactive - there's no reason for it to cause a fall, just pay attention & steer.

okgo

37,860 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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I agree with all that.

Your brakes are probably rubbing, OP.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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aea730 said:
After a posting on here and looking at various forums I splashed £460 on the Mav K E wheel set . I've ridden the bike twice on them and compared to previous set they just seem to take more effort to spin along.

Admittedly both my rides (70 milers) have been in breezy conditions and in the recent high temperatures but I seem to have to put in more effort to travel at my usual travelling speed.
Have you got any comparable data or is it your perception of effort that you're going on? Can you compare same routes with the different wheels?

Most people on here say the opposite to you, that's if they have bought something better they are much faster (without any actual evidence). You seem to be some kind of cycling heretic who is suggesting you've bought better wheels but aren't a actually going any quicker. hehe


ndg

560 posts

236 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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My steel roadie has bucket loads of rake on the forks, so yes probably geometry.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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Hora,

Without knowing the figures, I would suggest yes.

1) Typically the 'racier' the bike, the less 'trail' in the steering. I would expect a modern carbon 'racer' (and IIRC the pro-carbon is quite a racy geo) to have a lot less trail. Trail is the distance between the axis the wheel steers on, and where the contact patch is - it leads to the steering centering. Imagine a vertical fork with entirely straight legs - zero trail. Zero inclination for the steering to center, no weight to the steering and a very twitchy ride.. Now incline the head tube 20 degrees. The steering axis is way forward - continue that to the ground and it's a long way in front of the contact patch which is vertically below the wheel hub. That will center the steering and make the bike want to go in a straight line - importantly for your case it makes it stable and self correcting.

2) Mass. As newton decided, Force = mass x acceleration. Your pro-carbon has a fair bit more side area than the steel roadbike, so gets a bit more F from the wind. It also weighs quite a bit less, so that increased force and reduced mass will lead to a bit more acceleration. Not sure how significant, probably negligible compared to the weight of the body sitting on top of it.. but more significant than the wheels.

Vision 30's are a pretty safe/mild wheel. I don't think spending money on another set is going to be worth your while. You'll probably get used to them I think - FWIW I ride 45mm carbon wheels day in day out. (not a brag, just a data point).


TwistingMyMelon

6,385 posts

204 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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My steel bike (modern) rides beautifully, it inspires so much confidence, feels rock solid and absorbs bumps well. It also has some cheap 30+ spoked wheels which are soft and absorb bumps at the expense of power transfer, the bike has a very long "wheelbase"

My alu bike with stiff more expensive wheels feels twitchy and all over the shop after riding the above bike, its fine, you just have to adjust your riding style

Its not just the material, but the geo and setup make a huge difference

JEA1K

2,485 posts

222 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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They're a great set of wheels, really can't see them being hard work. 99% its all in your head ... either that or they're defective.

Tyres are ok, wouldn't choose them over GP4000's but I ran them for a while, we'll until they wore out. I'd say they're pretty prone to punctures but they're decent enough.

ccr32

1,968 posts

217 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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Andy OH said:
The Mavic tyres that are on the Ksyriums are probably useless. Get some GP 4000s II's on them and you'll see a difference.
I'd say this.

Though I can't speak for the Mavic tyres, when running the old Vittoria's on the Campag Zonda's when I bought them, I thought exactly the same thing. Bought the GP4000s's and the difference (to me) was like night and day...

No real comparative data though, so I acknowledge it was probably all in my head! smile That said, it's as good excuse as any to go out and buy yet more shiny things for your P&J... thumbup

okgo

37,860 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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The tyres are decent, he isn't coming from some £10 set of ste. They're not bad tyres.


ChrisMCoupe

927 posts

211 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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As people have said, the tyres aren't bad and the aero argument is laughable. My guess is that the engine is to blame in the current hot humid conditions we have been having, its been hard work at times lately and defintiely suffering from fatigue sooner.