Full carbon road bike for 400 quid. What could go wrong?

[richardxjr]

Ahh, but what about some lighter Elite SLS for half that YJ?

[yellowjack]

richardxjr said:

Ahh, but what about some lighter Elite SLS for half that YJ?

Well that depends...


...exactly how much lighter, and what's your best price on them, guv'nor?

Seriously, though, before I bought my latest bike, I did a lot of research on wheels. I'd fallen for the magazine writers' flannel about "needing" to upgrade the wheels quick-sharp. But I couldn't get much of an improvement without spending silly money, and having dropped £2,300 on the bike I couldn't even consider trying to sneak an upgrade past the wife at that early stage.

I did have a set of lightweight, high-spec Ksyrium wheels in an online 'basket' at one point, and they were far cheaper buying front and rear wheels separately than they were as a set. Unfortunately, I dallied too long on them, and the retailer must have realised their pricing error as the price shot back up to near RRP before I could find out whether they'd have honoured the basket price

If I had the cash lying around, I'd love to buy upgrades. At my level, though, it'd not be for the 'marginal performance gains' often touted in the reviews. For me, it'd probably be purely aesthetic improvements - because #biketart

[johnnyfinlandia]

Hi
Do you know how strong these are when going through the city and specifically pavements ?
Also I want to take abroad - do you know if the wheels are fully removable (or are not on) when you receive the package? Argos local pickup not possible atm.
Does anybody know a good compact case for these (to put on a plane) - that is reasonably priced?
Are the tyres these non-burstable ones and if not has anyone used these kind and if so where do you buy them?
Currently riding on a situpandbag old fashioned 18kg bike and being overtaken by grannies so want something a little lighter and faster
Also a few have changed the seats - any recommendations as I like a comfy saddle.
FInally one comment on HUKD which has this on sale is that someone had theirs stolen - any recommendation on special locks - or is it just location location - dont park it in this location !
Thanks John.

[johnnyfinlandia]

.. ok one final question
There are 2 models Argos is selling 22in and 23in .. I am 5'10" and inside leg of 30-31 inches - which to go for - assume the smaller one and then raise the saddle ?
Thanks

[Mr Will]

A £2300 bike should come with half-decent wheels on it already. it's no surprise that the £500 big name wheels are not a significant jump forwards.

The advice concerning upgrading wheels makes more sense further down the price range, where corners are more likely to be cut to meet a particular price point. It's not unusual to see a £1000 bike with £50 wheels. In these cases upgrading the wheels makes much more sense.

In my particular case, I spent less than £200 on a second hand set of Pro-Lite Bracciano Wheels (Review). They are stiff, smooth and make the bike noticeably more lively. They've also been faultlessly reliable over the 2+ years I've owned them so far.

If you want to play the weight-weenie game, they are under 1500g (according to my kitchen scales!). Between them and tyre upgrade I performed simultaneously, I took a full kilo off the rotating weight on my bike, which wasn't a cheap bike to begin with. They may not make a difference against the clock but you can certainly feel a difference with that kind of weight reduction.

All in all they've been one of the best bang-per-buck upgrades I've ever done. Currently on sale at Wiggle for £269: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/pro-lite-bracciano-a27-bla... I think you'll have to try hard to beat that.

[Fugazi]

johnnyfinlandia said:

Hi
Do you know how strong these are when going through the city and specifically pavements ?
Also I want to take abroad - do you know if the wheels are fully removable (or are not on) when you receive the package? Argos local pickup not possible atm.
Does anybody know a good compact case for these (to put on a plane) - that is reasonably priced?
Are the tyres these non-burstable ones and if not has anyone used these kind and if so where do you buy them?
Currently riding on a situpandbag old fashioned 18kg bike and being overtaken by grannies so want something a little lighter and faster

Had mine for a year now and it's absolutely fine. Put it through a 115km of some of the worst roads we have locally a couple of weekends ago in an attempt to recreate some kind of mini Paris-Roubaix and to explore some new routes (pics below). The bike really took a hammering, passed a few guys on mountain bikes too.... Compared to that, urban riding is a doddle.

You'll probably need to go into a shop and look at seats and find one that caters to your body, but whatever seat you go for you will need padded shorts!

Not sure what you mean by 'non-burstable' some tyres are better than others. The ones that come with the bike, Vittoria Zaffiro's, aren't too bad. I wouldn't bother changing them until you've worn them out, especially now winter's coming up. Generally the trick to not getting flats is getting the correct pressure in the tyres. The wheels are attached with quick release skewers so it's a matter of seconds to remove/fit the wheel. Be careful though, always make sure your quick release is tight before riding or after refitting a wheel!

Edited by Fugazi on Wednesday 26th August 12:51

[LordHaveMurci]

johnnyfinlandia said:

.. ok one final question
There are 2 models Argos is selling 22in and 23in .. I am 5'10" and inside leg of 30-31 inches - which to go for - assume the smaller one and then raise the saddle ?
Thanks

I'm 5'10" & went for the 22, fits me just fine.

As already said, wheels are QR so no issues, no idea what you mean with the tyres. Only done one 25ml ride on mine, with padded shorts the saddle was fine.
The bike is delivered in a sturdy cardboard box, it's a tight squeeze so I'm guessing once assembled you wouldn't be able to get the bike back in, no idea on bags I'm afraid but a bit of Googling should find something suitable.

[johnnyfinlandia]

Fugazi said:

Had mine for a year now and it's absolutely fine. Put it through a 115km of some of the worst roads we have locally a couple of weekends ago in an attempt to recreate some kind of mini Paris-Roubaix and to explore some new routes (pics below). The bike really took a hammering, passed a few guys on mountain bikes too.... Compared to that, urban riding is a doddle.

You'll probably need to go into a shop and look at seats and find one that caters to your body, but whatever seat you go for you will need padded shorts!

Not sure what you mean by 'non-burstable' some tyres are better than others. The ones that come with the bike, Vittoria Zaffiro's, aren't too bad. I wouldn't bother changing them until you've worn them out, especially now winter's coming up. Generally the trick to not getting flats is getting the correct pressure in the tyres. The wheels are attached with quick release skewers so it's a matter of seconds to remove/fit the wheel. Be careful though, always make sure your quick release is tight before riding or after refitting a wheel!

Edited by Fugazi on Wednesday 26th August 12:51

OK I get the drift cool pictures - sounds like it is a very tough bike.

I found this from froogle so might read up some more
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Avenir-Bike-Bag_10607.htm?...

cheap and cheerful but maybe the carbon frame or smaller parts need extra padding when taking on a plane.

and yes I have read from this forum or another that maybe 22 should be OK - thanks for confirming

J

Edited by johnnyfinlandia on Wednesday 26th August 13:53

[richardxjr]

You may just fit the 22. It's just right for me at 5'11.5, and that's after fitting a shorter 90mm stem.
The larger one will defo be too big for you or, imo, anyone under about 6'2.

Out of the 4 frame sizes made, Argos have only ever sold the largest 2 which equate to L and XL.




ETA Bike bag, toolkit to take bike apart and rebuild it, and sunglasses for £70
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BNSUN/get-some-sun---...

Edited by richardxjr on Wednesday 26th August 15:25

[benny.c]

Fugazi said:

Put it through a 115km of some of the worst roads we have locally a couple of weekends ago in an attempt to recreate some kind of mini Paris-Roubaix and to explore some new routes (pics below).

Going off topic, but have you got a link to the route you did? Sounds interesting.

[Some Gump]

One thing I've always wondered about when people compare wheel upgrades is the effect of tyres and tubes. An example - mate I ride with has just gone from whatever comes on 2k's worth of Specialised comfort fit style carbon-ness to Ksyriums plus Yksions (I think, the posher of the 2 unspellable wheels). He reckons t's amazingly different.

So, how much was tit the wheel vs how much the tyre? I never really see people being weight weenies so much on he tyre side, but when I went from Vitorria Zafiros to folding Gatorskins, I saved 100 grammes. It didn't feel any different though (except fewer punctures).

Does the tyre actually affect rolling resistance much? What about 2 way fit wheels and tubeless - would that save weight vs the more expensive wheel and normal tyres?

..None of this matters though. I still want some deep sections for the "woosh" noise out of the saddle. Only reason I don't do it is because I'm too slow as it is, adding bling will only make me look worse!

[TwistingMyMelon]

Does it come with Zafiros? If they did they are good tyre for standard fit bike tyres, as most are a lot worse

I had them on one of my bikes new, they did well, never wore down and never gave a puncture. I replaced them as it was a winter bike, so fancied something that was a bit suppler and gripper on manhole covers, otherwise they were fine for a cheap tyre

As said above, I would keep a high psi and avoid riding in the gutter as nod adhering to this predisposes you to punctures

[Some Gump]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Does it come with Zafiros? If they did they are good tyre for standard fit bike tyres, as most are a lot worse

You can buy worse than £7 tyres that are a bugger to get on and off, and offer the puncture resistance of a fairground baloon? I hope to never meet those tyres!

[LordHaveMurci]

Some Gump said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

Does it come with Zafiros? If they did they are good tyre for standard fit bike tyres, as most are a lot worse

You can buy worse than £7 tyres that are a bugger to get on and off, and offer the puncture resistance of a fairground baloon? I hope to never meet those tyres!

What would be a good replacement? Probably wait until these wear out unless they prove to be hopeless in the wet or something.

[Barchettaman]

Some Gump said:

You can buy worse than £7 tyres that are a bugger to get on and off, and offer the puncture resistance of a fairground baloon? I hope to never meet those tyres!

Absolutely not been my experience with Vittoria Zaffiro tyres, and I have run them in 23,28 and 32mm varieties on a number of rims over the last 5 years. I'm not doubting your post, just giving my experience!

[Mr Will]

Some Gump said:

One thing I've always wondered about when people compare wheel upgrades is the effect of tyres and tubes. An example - mate I ride with has just gone from whatever comes on 2k's worth of Specialised comfort fit style carbon-ness to Ksyriums plus Yksions (I think, the posher of the 2 unspellable wheels). He reckons t's amazingly different.

So, how much was tit the wheel vs how much the tyre? I never really see people being weight weenies so much on he tyre side, but when I went from Vitorria Zafiros to folding Gatorskins, I saved 100 grammes. It didn't feel any different though (except fewer punctures).

Does the tyre actually affect rolling resistance much? What about 2 way fit wheels and tubeless - would that save weight vs the more expensive wheel and normal tyres?

..None of this matters though. I still want some deep sections for the "woosh" noise out of the saddle. Only reason I don't do it is because I'm too slow as it is, adding bling will only make me look worse!

I think most people will acknowledge that tyres make an even bigger difference than wheels. Gatorskins are probably not a very good comparison as they are still very heavy, hard and stiff. Swap them out for something like GP4000S or the Michelin equivalent and you should notice the bike roll better, corner more securely and ride more smoothly. It's not about the weight, it's the compound and construction that make the difference.

[AmiableChimp]

Crikey!

I told my mate about this yesterday and he pulled the trigger mid afternoon.

He's just messaged me to say the bike has just arrived home delivery - how quick?!

[Fugazi]

benny.c said:

Going off topic, but have you got a link to the route you did? Sounds interesting.

Here you go Link.

This was the original route, but at Widnes a 400m section of the Trans-Pennine Trail has been close while the new bridge is built, so you could either follow the short diversion, edit the route or do what I did and get lost while my GPS was constantly trying to get me back on track.

The plan was when I made this was to find some new routes away from my usual roads which have frankly, become boring and a bit of a chore now, so spent some time looking on Google, Google Earth and streetview for some of the more interesting roads less traveled and came up with some out of the way lanes, rough gravel surfaces and cobbles. The cobbled section is only around 300m long but it's hard work and will give your bike a good workout, anything loose and it will fall off. I did it in good weather too but it had rained the day before and some sections it was quite muddy (pic below) but manageable on 25mm tyres.

[Some Gump]

Mr Will said:

I think most people will acknowledge that tyres make an even bigger difference than wheels. Gatorskins are probably not a very good comparison as they are still very heavy, hard and stiff. Swap them out for something like GP4000S or the Michelin equivalent and you should notice the bike roll better, corner more securely and ride more smoothly. It's not about the weight, it's the compound and construction that make the difference.

GP4000S 700x23 205g
Gatorskin folding 700x23 220g

I wish I could have to worry about 30g on my bike, but sadly I weigh 14 stone so maybe that's why I can't tell =(
My summer bike needs it's factory tyres replacing soon ish, so maybe I'll try some 4000's so I can see what the difference is between them and the gators. It's on Luganos so an instant 200g saving (and more importantly I can finally ditch the gay blue stripe bit!)

[benny.c]

Fugazi said:

Here you go Link.

This was the original route, but at Widnes a 400m section of the Trans-Pennine Trail has been close while the new bridge is built, so you could either follow the short diversion, edit the route or do what I did and get lost while my GPS was constantly trying to get me back on track.

The plan was when I made this was to find some new routes away from my usual roads which have frankly, become boring and a bit of a chore now, so spent some time looking on Google, Google Earth and streetview for some of the more interesting roads less traveled and came up with some out of the way lanes, rough gravel surfaces and cobbles. The cobbled section is only around 300m long but it's hard work and will give your bike a good workout, anything loose and it will fall off. I did it in good weather too but it had rained the day before and some sections it was quite muddy (pic below) but manageable on 25mm tyres.

Thanks mate, much appreciated. I do the Wirral Circular a fair bit so may pop over the water for a bit of variation.