Expensive bikes - hard to sell 2nd hand
Discussion
stongle said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
£500 for a front mech?????
Sorry my bad £399. But check Wiggle DA 7970 (MRRP) £399 DA 9070 (MRRP) £269, even after their discounts the "obsolete" version is over £100 dearer...... Maybe 9070 is a lot cheaper as it appears to be light, but made of cheese (well the attrition rate appears to be pretty high).
I think that's definitely the case.
I'm spending about £1.5k on my new bike, and would much rather get a lower spec new bike, where I know everything will be working, brand new and not damaged, than take a risk on a getting a better one for the same money.
Buy a secondhand bike with a cracked frame, and there's your money wasted.
I'm spending about £1.5k on my new bike, and would much rather get a lower spec new bike, where I know everything will be working, brand new and not damaged, than take a risk on a getting a better one for the same money.
Buy a secondhand bike with a cracked frame, and there's your money wasted.
HereBeMonsters said:
I think that's definitely the case.
I'm spending about £1.5k on my new bike, and would much rather get a lower spec new bike, where I know everything will be working, brand new and not damaged, than take a risk on a getting a better one for the same money.
Buy a secondhand bike with a cracked frame, and there's your money wasted.
True. That said, serious frame damage is very rare. Still you pays your money and takes your chance. I'm spending about £1.5k on my new bike, and would much rather get a lower spec new bike, where I know everything will be working, brand new and not damaged, than take a risk on a getting a better one for the same money.
Buy a secondhand bike with a cracked frame, and there's your money wasted.
stongle said:
The parts probably won't be cheaper though. I had to replace the front mech on my main bike which is 9070, when the bike shop quoted me for the replacement part they quoted me for 7970 which is 200 quid dearer (or £499 at full MRRP). Fair enough if you have time to shoip around, and that might be your experience I don't - 60hr+ work a week and 2 young kids mean riding time is a premium let alone maintenance.
You're bang on the money with the wheelset value though, I sold a set unused (from the Boardmann funny enough) to club mate for about 220; but subjective branding aside the frame is very; very average.
Unfortunately you've picked an edge case there; 7970 electric dura ace was not far off a prototype. It's wired, with multiple dedicated wiring paths (connections), and relatively little in the way of brains (most of which are in the mech its self). It's also very 'custom' hardware. All the ultegra, and later 9070 stuff uses a much simpler wiring plan based on CAN bus signalling, and much more 'production' scale hardware. Hence your price difference.You're bang on the money with the wheelset value though, I sold a set unused (from the Boardmann funny enough) to club mate for about 220; but subjective branding aside the frame is very; very average.
Your bike shop is evidently smoking crack as you simply can't plug first gen dura ace electric shifters into the later stuff. Maybe they're aware you work too many hours, and can be taken for a ride..
Realistically it takes 10 minutes to bang '6700 front mech' into google shopping. For the purposes of this comparison: Mechanical 6800 - 25 quid, mechanical 6700 - 22 quid.
scherzkeks said:
Buying a decent brand is still a safe bet. Colnago still makes "boutique" frames that are handmade on-site in Italy (the C59/60 is lovely). Most Italian brands have outsourced almost all prod. to Asia, but the quality is still excellent. The sad fact is that many high-end makers simply can't produce in Italy anymore. This even affects Campagnolo, who has managed to hang on and keep producing in Italy at the same quality level, despite losing market share to (largely) cheapo component makers like SRAM and Shimano.
A bike from any decent Italian make that listed at 3k or up is going to make a lovely ride for the average rider. Weight is not a big issue, as a super-light bike will not ride as well as one with a tick more heft, particularly on descents (which is why Colnago has bucked the SL trend for years) High-end wheels are also overrated -- for fitness riding, you want a set that is, above all, durable and moderately light.
All the bikes you have chosen so far are nice rides, but I would not pay more than 12-1300 for one, as these bikes simply don't hold value due to the "advances" in technology every year (read: marketing).
Totally agree with this post.A bike from any decent Italian make that listed at 3k or up is going to make a lovely ride for the average rider. Weight is not a big issue, as a super-light bike will not ride as well as one with a tick more heft, particularly on descents (which is why Colnago has bucked the SL trend for years) High-end wheels are also overrated -- for fitness riding, you want a set that is, above all, durable and moderately light.
All the bikes you have chosen so far are nice rides, but I would not pay more than 12-1300 for one, as these bikes simply don't hold value due to the "advances" in technology every year (read: marketing).
Edited by scherzkeks on Wednesday 27th August 10:49
There is a lot of crap about Italian bikes on here but the Bianchi Infinitto was bike of the year a couple of years ago and the ride and finish is right up there with far more expensive bikes!
OP haggle hard and you might bag yourself a bargain!
upsidedownmark said:
Unfortunately you've picked an edge case there; 7970 electric dura ace was not far off a prototype. It's wired, with multiple dedicated wiring paths (connections), and relatively little in the way of brains (most of which are in the mech its self). It's also very 'custom' hardware. All the ultegra, and later 9070 stuff uses a much simpler wiring plan based on CAN bus signalling, and much more 'production' scale hardware. Hence your price difference.
Your bike shop is evidently smoking crack as you simply can't plug first gen dura ace electric shifters into the later stuff. Maybe they're aware you work too many hours, and can be taken for a ride..
Realistically it takes 10 minutes to bang '6700 front mech' into google shopping. For the purposes of this comparison: Mechanical 6800 - 25 quid, mechanical 6700 - 22 quid.
Maybe I was unclear or you didnt read my post fully. I run9070 NOT 7970, they priced 7970 in error. I queried it (as I couldnt believe 400 quid either) and they were like oops yep and it turned into 200 and something (I checked Wiggle and some price matching occured).Your bike shop is evidently smoking crack as you simply can't plug first gen dura ace electric shifters into the later stuff. Maybe they're aware you work too many hours, and can be taken for a ride..
Realistically it takes 10 minutes to bang '6700 front mech' into google shopping. For the purposes of this comparison: Mechanical 6800 - 25 quid, mechanical 6700 - 22 quid.
Grandfondo said:
Same could be said of a £3k of the shelf Cervelo or Trek or Spesialized!
Not really - Cervelo/Trek/Spec make some sensible enough bikes for the going rate for new bikes with an established brand and big dealer network etc*. They are all in a similar position when it comes to price (albeit Cervelo still seen as more niche/exotic by many). That Bianchi isn't £3k of bike no matter how much branding/heritage is behind it, it's just plain overpriced for what it is.[*You or I may not want to pay the premium involved in that, so we could go to PX, Canyon, Rose etc if we want the same standard of bike for less money, but that's a different thing as they aren't recognised premium brands for most high street buyers.]
Grandfondo said:
Same could be said of a £3k of the shelf Cervelo or Trek or Spesialized!
Agreed. At least Bianchi is a proper Italian brand, building proper CONI-spec geometries, with high quality materials, and in a proper range of sizes for a proper fit. Their high-end Reparto Corse bikes are also still made in Italy. I wouldn't pay 3k used, but new? Seems in order as far as the rest of the market goes.stongle said:
Maybe I was unclear or you didnt read my post fully. I run9070 NOT 7970, they priced 7970 in error. I queried it (as I couldnt believe 400 quid either) and they were like oops yep and it turned into 200 and something (I checked Wiggle and some price matching occured).
Sure - however, the fact remains that 1st/2nd gen Di2 is not representative of the general pricing trend for older groupsets (for the reasons I outlined)scherzkeks said:
Agreed. At least Bianchi is a proper Italian brand, building proper CONI-spec geometries, with high quality materials, and in a proper range of sizes for a proper fit. Their high-end Reparto Corse bikes are also still made in Italy. I wouldn't pay 3k used, but new? Seems in order as far as the rest of the market goes.
"at least" ? Who cares! Cervelo Canadian, Trek American, not important.Birdthom said:
Grandfondo said:
Same could be said of a £3k of the shelf Cervelo or Trek or Spesialized!
Not really - Cervelo/Trek/Spec make some sensible enough bikes for the going rate for new bikes with an established brand and big dealer network etc*. They are all in a similar position when it comes to price (albeit Cervelo still seen as more niche/exotic by many). That Bianchi isn't £3k of bike no matter how much branding/heritage is behind it, it's just plain overpriced for what it is.[*You or I may not want to pay the premium involved in that, so we could go to PX, Canyon, Rose etc if we want the same standard of bike for less money, but that's a different thing as they aren't recognised premium brands for most high street buyers.]
upsidedownmark said:
Sure - however, the fact remains that 1st/2nd gen Di2 is not representative of the general pricing trend for older groupsets (for the reasons I outlined)
But it is representative of Shimano's electronic groupsets though (I'm being facetious). It's PH, surely everyone runs Di2 or EPS these days and has 4w/KG+ ;-) I'm happily educated on the differences; although if you told me it was fairies in 7970 and Pixie dust in 9070 I'd be none the wiser!What is interesting is that the OP asked about "Boutique" bikes and we're arguing mass produced framesets. We seemed to have confused brands trading off heritage and Boutique. If OP wants a 2nd hand reference point for boutique; its going to be difficult. relatively few people will sell these bikes and choose to keep them. Hardly ever see the likes of Independent Fabrication, Passoni, Parlee up for sale 2nd hand. Storck possibly; but they are a bit specific.
scherzkeks said:
okgo said:
What is the issue with that?
How do thousands of people make do?
It's poor frame building, and done to save on manufacturing costs. Crack open a CONI manual and learn why geometry is important and how all this stuff was figured out (in Italy) decades ago.How do thousands of people make do?
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