Expensive bikes - hard to sell 2nd hand

[okgo]

scherzkeks said:

It's poor frame building, and done to save on manufacturing costs. Crack open a CONI manual and learn why geometry is important and how all this stuff was figured out (in Italy) decades ago.

But nearly all of the major bike races in this world have been won on these 'poor' frames.

[Birdthom]

I can only imagine how much faster and more comfortable I would be with a bespoke Italian seat tube angle

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Birdthom said:

I can only imagine how much faster and more comfortable I would be with a bespoke Italian seat tube angle

Measured using the protractor of Galileo himself.

[anonymous-user]

Its a well known fact they use some building in Pisa as a reference for the seat tube geo...

[Rocksteadyeddie]

pablo said:

Its a well known fact they use some building in Pisa as a reference for the seat tube geo...

[Birdthom]

As a heathen, I googled the holy CONI manuscript out of idle curiosity. It does indeed offer wise words for us all:

"In days of blazing sun, the head should be further protected with a cabbage leaf placed under the cap.—Italian Central Sports School, C.O.N.I. Manual"

I can't wait to get to the frame-building chapter.

[HereBeMonsters]

Birdthom said:

As a heathen, I googled the holy CONI manuscript out of idle curiosity. It does indeed offer wise words for us all:

"In days of blazing sun, the head should be further protected with a cabbage leaf placed under the cap.—Italian Central Sports School, C.O.N.I. Manual"

I can't wait to get to the frame-building chapter.

[scherzkeks]

okgo said:

But nearly all of the major bike races in this world have been won on these 'poor' frames.

Indeed, typically with custom geometry in line with CONI geo. -- not one of five off-the-shelf sizes, all with the same seat tube geo.

You know that bike companies used to offer sizes in 1cm increments with proper corresponding ST and HT angles to us avg. joes for a reason?

[Rocksteadyeddie]

scherzkeks said:

okgo said:

But nearly all of the major bike races in this world have been won on these 'poor' frames.

Indeed, typically with custom geometry in line with CONI geo. -- not one of five off-the-shelf sizes, all with the same seat tube geo.

You know that bike companies used to offer sizes in 1cm increments with proper corresponding ST and HT angles to us avg. joes for a reason?

They were less automated in those days?

There is loads of adjustment to a frame with stem length/height, seat position and crank length that can fit a frame top a reasonable range of sized person. The notion that your average cyclist has a frame that ever fitted that well is somewhat fanciful. I can recall going into a VERY well known master framemaker as a young rider and the artisan taking one look at me and "knowing" what frame would fit. Compare and contrast with the uber-science that goes into bike fitting today. I am the first to acknowledge that a bike "should" fit as well as possible, but also acknowledge that the ultra-marginal gains to be had for most people in a super-science retul fit are as nothing compared to the huge leaps forward in their riding that could be made elsewhere with less expense (but possibly more effort).

[TKF]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty gutted to find out my Ultegra is not just heavy but also obsolete.

People don't half talk some uninformed st.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

TKF said:

I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty gutted to find out my Ultegra is not just heavy but also obsolete.

People don't half talk some uninformed st.

I'll give you £200 for the whole groupset if you'd be so kind as to remove and clean it for me. TVM

[TKF]

I'm swapping it onto my winter snotter. Not worth £200 and wouldn't want to rob you.

[okgo]

TKF said:

I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty gutted to find out my Ultegra is not just heavy but also obsolete.

People don't half talk some uninformed st.

To be slightly fair, it won't be THAT long before 10 speed is gone. 11 has taken over the top 3 gruppos in shimano now, so won't be too long before getting hold of the other stuff will be slightly more tricky.

Its amazing how many people have already upgraded tbh.

[TKF]

I wouldn't buy a new bike with 10spd but I'd have no problem getting one 2nd hand.

There is going to be plenty of 10spd parts kicking around for a while yet.

[stongle]

TKF said:

I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty gutted to find out my Ultegra is not just heavy but also obsolete.

People don't half talk some uninformed st.

Calm down treacle, it's the internet. I had 6700 before, still have 6770 and also 9070 (also ridden RED 22) for comparative purposes, so I'm very well informed. If you followed the thread, no one said it was heavy, but for 1800 quid on a 2nd hand bike and caveat emptor I'd say it was poor value and it also an old platform (ok maybe a tad harsh but I've gone electric and love it for shifting even if powered by pixie dust), that will have part and compatibility issues (wheel sets being my personal bug bare). Anyway, before you have any more afront I'm hardly singing the quality virtues of the latest iteration either (however I do commute on it and I killed the mech at about 7k so whom knows, and running Q rings won't help either).

It illustrates a point, for the dreamers on bay of thieves and alike, it's poor value comparative to what you could buy new from a retailer. At that price point on the Pinarello, I'd expect 6800 minimum and a set of DA wheels (at least).

And still, we're not talking about boutique bikes!

[Rocksteadyeddie]

TKF said:

I wouldn't buy a new bike with 10spd but I'd have no problem getting one 2nd hand.

There is going to be plenty of 10spd parts kicking around for a while yet.

It's not like it's a struggle getting 9 and even 8 speed parts at the moment. 10 speed will be readily available for ages yet.

[tobinen]

stongle said:

still, we're not talking about boutique bikes!

Indeed and I am intrigued to know what is or makes a boutique bike.

[paulmon]

tobinen said:

Indeed and I am intrigued to know what is or makes a boutique bike.

Me 2. I'd like to know what differentiates a hand made "mass produced" bike from a boutique bike.

P

[Loudy McFatass]

TheLemming said:

It does look overpriced for the spec. £500 of gruppo, £150 of wheels, struggling to see where the rest of the money is...

I recently spent a lot of time looking at a £4k new Boardman Air 9.4. Full Dura Ace inc deep section wheels etc, current model under 12 months old.

It was being advertised at £2200 and eventually sold for £1800 after about 6 weeks for sale.
I'd spoken to the seller, seen the ads on facebook, Ebay etc etc and eventually bumped into the guy who bought it.
The only reason I didn't go for it in the end was just not that much of an upgrade over my current bike.

The higher the price, the harder the sale - and the depreciation is staggering...
Ironically if you bought a £1k bike in the sales at about £700 ish you'd likely get most of your money back a year later.

Is there a Facebook group for second hand road bikes for sale then?

[aea730]

We'll I never imagined my little post making 5 pages, some very interesting points of view on here though. The bottom line still seems to be that most sellers seem wildly optimistic about the value of their bike. I just wonder though what happens after a few weeks of trying to sell, do they just live with it ?