Winter training?

[okgo]

I wouldn't bother with z1 at all. It just isn't enough for people doing modest hours.

Z2 and Z3 yes, Z1 for me would drive me to insanity.

Fwiw my coach has got me doing all sorts, 30 mins at 95% on Saturday, 2 x 2 mins at max effort Sunday, 2 hours zone 2/3 today and 3x30 sec max tomorrow in two hours of z2. Interesting to those who stick to base miles only.

[Grandfondo]

I agree with Okgo about mixing it up if you are already quite fit.
When the weather gets bad up here in the Highlands our club does a couple of very hard spinning classes during the week and club rides at weekends for base miles!

Okgo is that 2x20 mins?

[okgo]

Nope 2 mins max effort under 5 mins rest.

[Ponk]

Depends how you define quite fit really. I'm certainly not race fit but as a club rider I think I'm in pretty good shape.

I have speed over short distances and having spent all summer riding chain gangs (24/25mph+) and fast club runs (21/22mph average over say 60 miles) I have seen improvements but I think my aerobic fitness is what's letting me down.

Basically I think I'm spending too long working anerobically so I'm going to try and bring my aerobic fitness up to better support it. I'm one funny looking pyramid at the moment.

I did think about coaching actually. Russell Hampton has just popped up very locally and I'm tempted to drop him an email.

[okgo]

How do you know that though? anaerobic is very short duration stuff so it's hugely unlikely you've neglected aerobic stuff. And indeed if you can do those rides then I would imagine you have no real worry about that.

Russell may be a good about. But good rider doesn't always mean good coach. But worth a conversation if that's the way you're going to go.

[Grandfondo]

Ponk what are you trying to achieve?
Going by what you have said you are already at a good club level!
How old are you?
Do you have time to increase your training?
Do you race?

[BMWBen]

Ah the two minute max interval - the most painful of the intervals. Only those who have done them will be able to comprehend the mental and physical pain!

[Ponk]

okgo said:

How do you know that though? anaerobic is very short duration stuff so it's hugely unlikely you've neglected aerobic stuff. And indeed if you can do those rides then I would imagine you have no real worry about that.

Russell may be a good about. But good rider doesn't always mean good coach. But worth a conversation if that's the way you're going to go.

Good point, I don't to be honest, but there seemed to be some logic to it. Going slow to go fast etc. I'm well out of my depth here.

[okgo]

BMWBen said:

Ah the two minute max interval - the most painful of the intervals. Only those who have done them will be able to comprehend the mental and physical pain!

I didn't do them as hard as I could really, the hill was a little steep for my gears!

[Ponk]

Grandfondo said:

Ponk what are you trying to achieve?
Going by what you have said you are already at a good club level!
How old are you?
Do you have time to increase your training?
Do you race?

I raced some crits this year and got shelled out the back in each. Despite that I really enjoyed the experience. I'd like to make a proper go of it next year, do some more crits and also try some road races. My goal really is to get round and finish with the bunch. I'm under no illusions of glory but I'd like to see progress through the season and then go from there.

I'm 29 and can spare 4 hours (perhaps 5 at a push) of a weekend and maybe 3 1-2 hour sessions in the week. I might be able to do a little more in the week if I fit in cycling all the home from work (25-40 miles depending on route) once or twice.

[BMWBen]

okgo said:

BMWBen said:

Ah the two minute max interval - the most painful of the intervals. Only those who have done them will be able to comprehend the mental and physical pain!

I didn't do them as hard as I could really, the hill was a little steep for my gears!

I don't think I've ever done them as hard as I physically could - at 1:20 a loud voice in my head starts screaming at me to stop and I can't overrule it for more than 20 seconds. I think the latest I've managed to put off hitting the lap button is probably about 1:55

[okgo]

Ponk said:

I raced some crits this year and got shelled out the back in each. Despite that I really enjoyed the experience. I'd like to make a proper go of it next year, do some more crits and also try some road races. My goal really is to get round and finish with the bunch. I'm under no illusions of glory but I'd like to see progress through the season and then go from there.

I'm 29 and can spare 4 hours (perhaps 5 at a push) of a weekend and maybe 3 1-2 hour sessions in the week. I might be able to do a little more in the week if I fit in cycling all the home from work (25-40 miles depending on route) once or twice.

Doing winter chaingangs at 25 mph, 60 miles at over 20mph and shelled from a 4th cat crit? Something doesn't sound right there chap.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Ponk said:

Grandfondo said:

Ponk what are you trying to achieve?
Going by what you have said you are already at a good club level!
How old are you?
Do you have time to increase your training?
Do you race?

I raced some crits this year and got shelled out the back in each. Despite that I really enjoyed the experience. I'd like to make a proper go of it next year, do some more crits and also try some road races. My goal really is to get round and finish with the bunch. I'm under no illusions of glory but I'd like to see progress through the season and then go from there.

I'm 29 and can spare 4 hours (perhaps 5 at a push) of a weekend and maybe 3 1-2 hour sessions in the week. I might be able to do a little more in the week if I fit in cycling all the home from work (25-40 miles depending on route) once or twice.

You're doing plenty of hours to enable you to get round a crit. As Okgo has said you need to look at the quality of your work particularly as it comes into the race season. If you've raced you'll know that a lot of the time it's pretty sedate interspersed with max efforts. It is the efforts - and repeated efforts - that gets people shelled out, and then of course they're unable to get back on again. So think about structuring your training to reflect race efforts. Even making sure that you absolutely nail it up every climb is a form of basic interval training.

[Dammit]

'Cross is good for this as it's basically an hour of off/on maximum attack riding.

[Vocal Minority]

Wow - you guys may as well be talking Dutch from my point of view!

I am like Gizmoish, just make sure I stay out there, and keep doing more miles than the month before.

[fromage]

After an awful season I'm trying to have a bit of structure for once so doing the following for the next 3-4 weeks:

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - 1 1/2 Hours Z2 Commute + 1 hour ish SST/Threshold Work (though may swap out for a 2 hour Z3 tempo ride occasionally)
Wednesday - 1 1/2 Hours Z2 Commute
Thursday - 1 1/2 Hours Z2 Commute + 1 hour ish SST/Threshold Work (though may swap out for a 2 hour Z3 tempo ride occasionally)
Friday - Rest or even easier commute
Saturday - 4-6 Hours steady Z2 then hills at Z3/4
Saturday - 4-6 Hours steady Z2 then hills at Z3/4

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Dammit said:

'Cross is good for this as it's basically an hour of off/on maximum attack riding.

And running.

[anonymous-user]

After last year I know that z1/z2 riding builds a very strong base. I was doing 3-4 hrs Sat and Sun with a bunch of other stuff in the week. The issue was that despite seeing all the numbers go flying up on the charts I wasn't that much faster as I was always tired. It didn't seem to compute to the coach but there comes a time when you know your own body and listen to it. This year I am going to split the weekends;

Longer z2 (3hr) road rides with the odd effort
Shorter (2hr) road rides with as much elevation as possible, easy on the flat
MTB races (2hr)
MTB rides (2-3hr)
CX races

Then in the week it'll be interval type turbo sessions if the weather is crap or some more off road stuff. Given that all the mtb stuff is on/off rather than steady intervals and that it also gives the core a bit of a pummeling it works great for shorter stuff. I found the z1 rides dull as dishwater but they helped me build fitness, I don't think I need that again as I never really did anything to stress myself all year!

The usual kick start to training is over the Xmas break in Ireland. It can be amazing or hell, depending on the weather. Then I'll plan Tenerife for February.

[Ponk]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Ponk said:

Grandfondo said:

Ponk what are you trying to achieve?
Going by what you have said you are already at a good club level!
How old are you?
Do you have time to increase your training?
Do you race?

I raced some crits this year and got shelled out the back in each. Despite that I really enjoyed the experience. I'd like to make a proper go of it next year, do some more crits and also try some road races. My goal really is to get round and finish with the bunch. I'm under no illusions of glory but I'd like to see progress through the season and then go from there.

I'm 29 and can spare 4 hours (perhaps 5 at a push) of a weekend and maybe 3 1-2 hour sessions in the week. I might be able to do a little more in the week if I fit in cycling all the home from work (25-40 miles depending on route) once or twice.

You're doing plenty of hours to enable you to get round a crit. As Okgo has said you need to look at the quality of your work particularly as it comes into the race season. If you've raced you'll know that a lot of the time it's pretty sedate interspersed with max efforts. It is the efforts - and repeated efforts - that gets people shelled out, and then of course they're unable to get back on again. So think about structuring your training to reflect race efforts. Even making sure that you absolutely nail it up every climb is a form of basic interval training.

The repeated accelerations is exactly what shelled me out. To be clear the chaingangs were in the summer and after the racing so I reckon I peaked too late. Plus, the smallest change in pace could send me out the back of those too! The races were E/1/2/3/4 (handicapped) and full of 90 degree corners.

I had a bike fit at the weekend which highlighted that my pedalling technique isn't great so I think high cadence low heart rate on the rollers should also improve my technique.

I did an hour tonight on the rollers in zone two at around 90 rpm. I think zone one would have put me to sleep!

Edited by Ponk on Tuesday 28th October 21:49

[Silver940]

I've entered a local mountain bike series over Winter. 2 Races so far and currently 3rd overall. Doing OK I'm told riding a 5 year old 26" wheel bike compared to the shiney 29" jobs others are riding. ( One of my excuse cards )

I started looking at Heart Rate Zone training, intervals etc.. then thought about it, I ride for fun and don't want to get over serious and spoil the fun bit. So I shall continue with my 3-4 rides a week, road and off road, turn up to the race and bury myself and see what happens.

Road rides at the moment consist of about 40 miles in my lunch break once or twice a week, start steady and then usually finish fast as that's what I like doing. MTB rides consist of exploring new trails and then having big digs at the strava segments I know and come across, one of these days I'll get one back off Bertie Wooster!

Also, I have no turbo trainer, wife hates the idea so I'll be getting wet and cold at times!