Boxhill Original Sportive

[Dizeee]

yellowjack said:

Dizzzee was there. I watch him on Strava, and his feed says he rode the De Rosa. He started a little after 0800hrs and took comfortably less than 5hr 30min to complete 103 miles. I won't be revealing his Strava username, because I seem to be the only one not comfortable with the way he was hounded off this forum. Suffice to say, he is still pretty darned quick, and seems to have plenty of genuine friends on Strava, who share kudos and comment with him on there.

Well done to him, and to everyone on here who got round on Sunday, whatever route/distance they chose to tackle, and how ever long they took to complete.

Very kind words Mr Jack thank you! I still observe the forum, just don't bother to get involved too much.

Sunday was great other than going off course which cost me some time. Its all about winding down now for winter for me. I'm sure I'll see you on Strava soon

[anonymous-user]

okgo said:

I think this will be he first sportive of many to get canned.

A few reports of people not following the route and crossing the busy road by boxhill despite there being an underpass which was apparently meant to be used. While the village of box hill and it's residents are very nimby esque, I can see that there are too many of these sportives in the Surrey region, and I do think that eventually they'll lose the battle and there will not be as many as there are now. Many people/riders now despise riding in Surrey due to the increase in bike traffic, lack of etiquette etc. Sussex and Kent seem to be a little more quiet for big cars and riders.

I think also the only real beneficiary of riders is the NT really. Not sure people tend to stop in many other places up there. That bike shop by the station has always been empty when I've been in there.

Yep, think that's bang on.

My Godson's family lives in Albury. Like many there, when they moved to the village many years ago there was a light smattering of cyclists knocking around on Sunday mornings. It's obviously very different now, and from what they tell me the strength of anti-cycling/cyclist feeling amongst the locals is running high.

[yellowjack]

Dizeee said:

Very kind words Mr Jack thank you! I still observe the forum, just don't bother to get involved too much.

Sunday was great other than going off course which cost me some time. Its all about winding down now for winter for me. I'm sure I'll see you on Strava soon

Hi Dizeee!

okgo said:

I think this will be he first sportive of many to get canned...


...I think also the only real beneficiary of riders is the NT really. Not sure people tend to stop in many other places up there. That bike shop by the station has always been empty when I've been in there.

Pilgrim Cycles at Boxhill and Westhumble Station? It's a bit off the beaten track, I think, and maybe many don't know it's there? It's a lovely little place. OK, the shop itself might not be up to much in terms of stock, but it's a darned good little cafe, in a fantastic (and architecturally interesting) little former ticket office, with an open fire when it's colder too. I stopped there a few times last winter, the toasted tea cakes are a good 'warmer' after the Coombe/Staple/Whitedown/Crocknorth climbs, and it allows a bit of a breather to grab a hot drink before tackling Box Hill and Coldharbour/Leith on the way home. The NT 'serving hatch' at the top of Box doesn't really cut it for me when it's cold out, and it's often excessively busy in good weather.

I see your point on the volume of riders up there, and understand what you say about sportives, but I don't see any legal way of preventing them from happening. They are, after all, just large volumes of people exercising their 'inalienable right' to pass and re-pass over public highways. The entry fees are just a 'cover charge' for signage, food stops, mechanical assistance, and timing equipment. It'd be like trying to ban car owners' clubs from meeting at the pub for a nice drive and some Sunday lunch. The volumes of riders in the area may well harden resistance to 'closed road' events, but the open road stuff isn't legislated for, or against, as far as I'm aware. Maybe the obsession, post Olympics, with having to include Box Hill itself is part of the issue? There are plenty of alternative routes in that area which needn't go anywhere near Box Hill and would still hit a hat full of iconic climbs and achieve challenging distances.

I know some sportives have been cancelled/postponed due to local pressure, in places like the New Forest, but they weren't 'banned' as such, it's just that their traditional venues' owners crumbled under local NIMBYists pressure and wouldn't allow their land to be used as event HQs. I think if events do start to wrap up due to locals driving them out, there might be a response from the cycling community along the lines of the Critical Mass events in cities. I'm not a fan of such things, but I'd be tempted to join in if idiot residents were attempting to deny our right to use the highways which we all pay for.

[okgo]

Yes the shop is nice but nobody uses it.

The nt have built a pretty big indoor cafe next to the hatch. They'll clean up again when it gets cold (though apparently it already is? 29 deg in Cyprus currently )

I am not sure of the process of sportives but I think there is an application process or something? I recall that to run one over box hill you have to pay a lot of money to someone. NT again probably.

[yellowjack]

Ah. I wasn't aware of the new indoor cafe on Box Hill. That could well scupper the independent one at the station.

Now you mention the charge for routing a sportive over Box Hill, I remember something along those lines being mentioned before. But that's a 'commercial enterprise' issue with the landowner (NT) and not a legal/illegal issue. If anything kills these sportives, that'll be it - landowners and facilities providers refusing to work with organisers. But you cannot prevent a couple of thousand 'friends' organising a jolly stroll or a bike ride along public rights of way. If sportives were driven away, then I can see 'informal' events taking their place, like massive club rides, just lacking the feed stops and goody bags of a sportive.

[Daveyraveygravey]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well said! If these moaning nimbyists don't like living somewhere that is beautiful, and therefore attractive to cyclists/hikers/tourists, why don't they move to somewhere less attractive.

[TKF]

The residents were there long before the Olympics made BH ridiculously and, frankly inexplicably, popular.

[okgo]

I know a lot of club riders enter sportives but I do think a lot of people would benefit from joining a club. It can give you the guided tour (which I think is what a lot of people want?) but while getting to know people and learning the roads so you feel confident in going out with a group of freinds each weekend. Surely more enjoyable than riding with thousands of random people.

Even Alex Dowsett said recently that the racing scene could benefit from a lot of the strength in sportives. I.e there are many that could and probably should be racing instead of trying to release their competitive spirit on what should be a fun run. The times awards promote this wrongly I think. There are enough races and time trials on every weekend that sportives should drop the competitive aspect a bit IMO.

[yellowjack]

TKF said:

The residents were there long before the Olympics made BH ridiculously and, frankly inexplicably, popular.

Hmmmm?

I have a copy of a book entitled "The Modern Cyclist, 1923"

It's a facsimile of "The Modern Cyclist - A Handbook for Cyclists and other Roadfarers" publish in 1923 and sold for a shilling.

Part Two, Potted Tours. Section 10 - From London. Route 8 : Mostly in Surrey and Sussex; 400 miles from and to Richmond. It says...

..."Newlands Corner, Merrow, 3 1/2; Leatherhead, 10; Dorking, 5; ascend Box Hill."

How many of the residents have lived on Box Hill since the 1920s? As for "frankly inexplicably popular"? A mildly challenging climb in lovely scenery, to a cafe at the top for a coffee break, with a tremendous, and almost always clear, view over Dorking and the Downs just along the road. Not reasons enough to visit? Quite frankly, even if no-one cycled there, traffic would be a circus. Plenty of NT visitors, along with people "frankly inexplicably" picking the zig zags for a 'Sunday drive' or to roar up and down on motorbikes.

I don't think you can pin this nonsense on cyclists, to be fair. And the simple fact is that the zig zags are probably less suitable for motor vehicles than they are for cyclists/walkers. Box Hill has long been a popular destination for all sorts. Drivers, who cause many issues by slowing, or even stopping, on the double yellow lined section along beside the viewpoint, instead of parking up safely to enjoy the fresh air. Motorcyclists, who congregate at the cafe at the foot of the hill, and quite often stop in large groups at the top. Cyclists, for whom the hill can be a testing challenge, it's certainly not "easy" regardless of what the 'pseudo-pros' will tell you. Walkers, most of whom will drive there to begin a circular walk up, down, and around the woods and chalk meadows in the area. Then add in the families playing football or flying kites, the runners, dog walkers, amateur photographers, wildlife watchers, and the residents are quickly outnumbered by 'recreational users'. Trying to restrict access to any one of those recreational user groups is plain daft, a bit like banning holidaymakers from Bournemouth in the summer season on the grounds that 'it makes the roads too busy for residents commuting to work'.

[okgo]

I think it's because it's easy( it really is, I've never seen anyone walking up it) that it's popular, and has cafe and views at the top. But the key is that it's pretty close to London. I think another 10 miles south and it would be less inundated.

Not sure what can be done. Interestingly Zac Goldsmith has called a public meeting to discuss the growing tension between cyclists and drivers in Richmond Park. I think whatever is happening in Surrey and the park things are coming to a head...

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 8th October 11:52

[Daveyraveygravey]

We're on a forum specifically for cycling, and we are still getting into arguments about "cyclists getting in the way of other road users". Is there any hope for cyclists?!

[okgo]

Maybe.

Probably in London, doubtful elsewhere.

[esuuv]

okgo said:

Not sure what can be done. Interestingly Zac Goldsmith has called a public meeting to discuss the growing tension between cyclists and drivers in Richmond Park. I think whatever is happening in Surrey and the park things are coming to a head...

When / where? i can't see anything on his website and google isn't helping? just references to a survey and a meeting earlier in the year.......

[MadDad]

Daveyraveygravey said:

We're on a forum specifically for cycling, and we are still getting into arguments about "cyclists getting in the way of other road users". Is there any hope for cyclists?!

Most people on this forum can differentiate between a 'cyclist' and someone on a bike - most members of the public can't - so we all get lumped into the same bucket!!

Agree with OKGO's point re joining a club. The majority of people who have been riding for a year or so consider themselves a 'good' cyclist, it is not until you ride in a group with more experienced cyclists you get a measure of your road skills and risk perception - anyone can ride hard but doing it safely in close proximity to others (and anticipating their next move) is something altogether different.

[oyster]

I live on a very popular cycling route for club rides out near the Kent/London border and the locals I speak to have no issues with the cyclists themselves, but do have issues with the litter that's left behind. CO2 cannisters and gel packets seem to be the most common objects dumped. Though it seems some cyclists believe leaving empty inner tubes in the gutter is a normal thing to do.

Indeed I had a very scary moment on my bike a few weeks ago when I hit a discarded CO2 cannister in the middle of a steep descent.

[anonymous-user]

I'm amazed how many of these yellow signs with a black direction arrows are left attached to posts all over the south of England.

It must get confusing if you aren't following a GPS and rely on the signs.

[okgo]

esuuv said:

When / where? i can't see anything on his website and google isn't helping? just references to a survey and a meeting earlier in the year.......

This was th email

Dear Resident,

I wanted to let you know about an important public meeting I am arranging for Wednesday, December 17th, at the Duke St Church in Richmond. The topic will be cycling - and in particular the rising tensions between cyclists, motorists and pedestrians in Richmond Park.

It will be an open forum, and the purpose is simply to explore solutions to a problem that is raised with me by constituents on a near daily basis. I hope that by crowd-sourcing the problem, interesting and valuable solutions will be offered up, and to that end, I warmly invite you to come along and contribute.

I will chair the meeting, and have assembled a panel of representatives from Richmond and Kingston Councils, the Royal parks, and the police.

Event details:

Date: Wednesday 17th December - 7:30pm
Location: Duke Street Church, Quadrant Rd (off the Green), Richmond, TW9 1DH

I very much hope to see you there,

Best wishes,

Zac Goldsmith
MP for Richmond Park and North Kingston

[j00pY]

What tension is there between car drivers and cyclists in the park? I'm pretty new to cycling around there, but haven't noticed any tensions apart from myself wishing cars weren't using it as a short cut.

[Mobile Chicane]

yellowjack said:

Mobile Chicane said:

A recent survey of Box Hill villagers reveals that 94% of residents think that the increased volume of cyclists post Olympics impacts negatively on their lives.

If you can't stay away, be respectful.

Ah, nuts to 'em.

They're just like the NIMBY halfwits in the New Forest, all jabbering on about how cyclists jam up the roads, preventing ambulances and fire engines going about their business, and "won't someone think of the wildlife" when, as reported last week, the vast majority of the 'halfwits' who have accidents involving a collision with livestock/wildlife in the area are locals tearing about the place, well over the 40mph forest speed limit at dusk.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Box Hill and the surrounding area has been a Mecca for cyclists since long before most of these "concerned residents" even thought of moving there. Sometimes life won't bend to your will, that's the nature of it. Besides which, it's a public road, being used by people exercising their inalienable right to pass and re-pass over it. If a small number of those riders are inconsiderate, they are probably only being as inconsiderate as a similar proportion of drivers in that area. If respect isn't willingly given by those who want it returned, it amounts to gross hypocrisy. If 'outraged locals' are allowed to marginalise a sport or recreational pastime that is as benign as cycling, it's only a matter of time before just 'going for a drive' in the area in certain types of car becomes subject to the same sort of restrictions. You see where I'm going with this, as a PHer, right?

Ah. Nuts to 'em indeed.

However, with respect, you're wrong, and moreover disrespectful.

I moved to Box Hill in 2008. There were the odd cyclists and the odd race, two triathlons a year - all accommodated.

However, since the run-up to the Olympics - and everything that has happened since - its just gone crazy.

Cyclist traffic on the Zig Zag has increased by 500%. It's a narrow road, with hairpins.

The scratches on the LHS of my car will attest to the number of times I've had to dive for the hedge, in order to avoid the crazy downhillers coming the other way.

As said previously, 94% of villagers consider their lives negatively impacted by cyclists.

I don't venture out at weekends in my car because it is too much hassle. I am not alone in this. Your sport is not remotely 'benign'. Football, rugby, are 'benign',since they take place away from areas where people live and drive.

We live here, it is our village. You lot - fk off.

Edited by Mobile Chicane on Thursday 9th October 00:10

[yellowjack]

Hmmm?