Customer service. Am I being unreasonable?
Discussion
Not a puncture repair, but a similarly simple, and far less time consuming job - fitting a new chain...
I rode to a local cycle shop in Fleet. I selected a new chain (£12.99) and took it to the young lad at the counter. I produced my chain tool, the breaker pin for which is somewhere in the leaf litter in Minley Wood. I asked if they could help source a replacement pin. He checked their supplier's website (the UK Topeak importer) and there was no listing for a replacement pin.
So I tried to buy a new 'take along' chain breaker. No dice there, neither. They only had large 'workshop quality' chain tools. So I asked to borrow their workshop chain tool. "Boss's policy - no tool loans". Health and safety or some such reason.
Next question. Could the workshop remove a few links to make the chain the right length? So the young lad duly nipped to the workshop, and came back with the answer "No. The mechanic is booked solid until the end of the day. We can do it tomorrow afternoon".
Now. Call me unreasonable if you like, but correcting the length of a bicycle chain (one supplied with a quick-link in the box) is simply a case of matching it to the number of links in the old chain (shop lad had already established that my chain was the correct length while he taught me to suck some eggs), and removing a single pin. After that I can snap the quick link together myself. It takes less than two minutes. I'd gone into the shop expecting to spend £30, or perhaps a little more, to buy the chain and the tool.
Having established that there was no way to get the job done before 'tomorrow', I decided to go home and order from t'internet. A Wiggle package is on it's way to me, containing a new chain and a small Park Tools chain breaker at a cost of £16.86 and an additional delay of 24 hours over the bike shop. So for the sake of two minutes "customer satisfaction" time, and a stock management failure, they have...
a) done themselves out of c£30 in the till
b) damaged their reputation (in my eyes at least) due to an inflexible attitude
c) done themselves out of (potentially) £3000+ of spending on whole bicycles before next spring
All that because they couldn't manage to keep a simple tool in stock, and couldn't find two minutes to split a chain for me. So they lost out to the internet, which saved me 50% of the immediate cost, and now I'll have a chain tool again, so I'll not need their services in future. Therefore ALL my new chains (9 bikes in the family
) will be ordered online. So that'll be somewhere between 6 to 8 transactions which would have drawn me into their shop, to be tempted by their 'shiny things' and into the spending of even more money, which will now be made with Wiggle/Merlin/CRC/some other '.com' cycling supplier. I was willing to buy the proverbial 'jar of coffee' if they'd have found those precious two minutes, but hey, at least they stuck to their principles. Their refusal to bend on the shortening of a bicycle chain cost them a sale, and a long term customer. My stubborn refusal to accept their explanation has cost me a day's riding.
The worst part, for me, was this lad's insistence on not being permitted to shorten the chain himself. "It needs to be a Cytech qualified mechanic, I'm afraid". This, despite him having already talked me through the process of shortening the chain myself, which suggested that he was at least 'qualified' to operate a chain breaker. The next worst part was the fact that Topeak do indeed supply replacement pins for their chain tools. But it seems that UK importers/shops would rather sell the whole tool as a replacement. Bikes24 website could supply the pin for £3.05 (EUR 3.95), but shipping from Germany brought the cost up to just under £8, so I bought a Park Tools CT-5 breaker tool for £9.87 from Wiggle, because that should arrive at the same time as the chain.
I'm saddened by their attitude, really. I used to be one of the 'good guys'. If I wanted to buy a bike, I'd spend my money in a bricks'n'mortar shop, not sit on a bike and waste staff time asking all about it only to buy it online. I was the same with spares and accessories. Some stuff I'd buy online, but if I wanted something I could hold, or try on before buying, then I'd spend the money in the shop that had the stuff in stock. Now I'm tempted to be the guy who tries things in the shop before ordering on the web. Especially where this particular shop is concerned.
I've rambled on enough now. Suffice to say, they'd have to have something pretty exclusive on offer for me to bother spending money with them again.
I rode to a local cycle shop in Fleet. I selected a new chain (£12.99) and took it to the young lad at the counter. I produced my chain tool, the breaker pin for which is somewhere in the leaf litter in Minley Wood. I asked if they could help source a replacement pin. He checked their supplier's website (the UK Topeak importer) and there was no listing for a replacement pin.
So I tried to buy a new 'take along' chain breaker. No dice there, neither. They only had large 'workshop quality' chain tools. So I asked to borrow their workshop chain tool. "Boss's policy - no tool loans". Health and safety or some such reason.
Next question. Could the workshop remove a few links to make the chain the right length? So the young lad duly nipped to the workshop, and came back with the answer "No. The mechanic is booked solid until the end of the day. We can do it tomorrow afternoon".
Now. Call me unreasonable if you like, but correcting the length of a bicycle chain (one supplied with a quick-link in the box) is simply a case of matching it to the number of links in the old chain (shop lad had already established that my chain was the correct length while he taught me to suck some eggs), and removing a single pin. After that I can snap the quick link together myself. It takes less than two minutes. I'd gone into the shop expecting to spend £30, or perhaps a little more, to buy the chain and the tool.
Having established that there was no way to get the job done before 'tomorrow', I decided to go home and order from t'internet. A Wiggle package is on it's way to me, containing a new chain and a small Park Tools chain breaker at a cost of £16.86 and an additional delay of 24 hours over the bike shop. So for the sake of two minutes "customer satisfaction" time, and a stock management failure, they have...
a) done themselves out of c£30 in the till
b) damaged their reputation (in my eyes at least) due to an inflexible attitude
c) done themselves out of (potentially) £3000+ of spending on whole bicycles before next spring
All that because they couldn't manage to keep a simple tool in stock, and couldn't find two minutes to split a chain for me. So they lost out to the internet, which saved me 50% of the immediate cost, and now I'll have a chain tool again, so I'll not need their services in future. Therefore ALL my new chains (9 bikes in the family
) will be ordered online. So that'll be somewhere between 6 to 8 transactions which would have drawn me into their shop, to be tempted by their 'shiny things' and into the spending of even more money, which will now be made with Wiggle/Merlin/CRC/some other '.com' cycling supplier. I was willing to buy the proverbial 'jar of coffee' if they'd have found those precious two minutes, but hey, at least they stuck to their principles. Their refusal to bend on the shortening of a bicycle chain cost them a sale, and a long term customer. My stubborn refusal to accept their explanation has cost me a day's riding. The worst part, for me, was this lad's insistence on not being permitted to shorten the chain himself. "It needs to be a Cytech qualified mechanic, I'm afraid". This, despite him having already talked me through the process of shortening the chain myself, which suggested that he was at least 'qualified' to operate a chain breaker. The next worst part was the fact that Topeak do indeed supply replacement pins for their chain tools. But it seems that UK importers/shops would rather sell the whole tool as a replacement. Bikes24 website could supply the pin for £3.05 (EUR 3.95), but shipping from Germany brought the cost up to just under £8, so I bought a Park Tools CT-5 breaker tool for £9.87 from Wiggle, because that should arrive at the same time as the chain.
I'm saddened by their attitude, really. I used to be one of the 'good guys'. If I wanted to buy a bike, I'd spend my money in a bricks'n'mortar shop, not sit on a bike and waste staff time asking all about it only to buy it online. I was the same with spares and accessories. Some stuff I'd buy online, but if I wanted something I could hold, or try on before buying, then I'd spend the money in the shop that had the stuff in stock. Now I'm tempted to be the guy who tries things in the shop before ordering on the web. Especially where this particular shop is concerned.
I've rambled on enough now. Suffice to say, they'd have to have something pretty exclusive on offer for me to bother spending money with them again.
We'll its their shop, so they can do what they want.
However they are fools in the long term, pretty much most things can be brought on the internet cheaper than a brick and mortar shop. The only way local bike shops are going to survive is that personal service, and this, for me, is very much something they should be excelling at - helping out their customers.
I'd be miffed if I was you as well.
However they are fools in the long term, pretty much most things can be brought on the internet cheaper than a brick and mortar shop. The only way local bike shops are going to survive is that personal service, and this, for me, is very much something they should be excelling at - helping out their customers.
I'd be miffed if I was you as well.
I have a very similar attitude. Since moving to High Wycombe, I've tried to support my local LBS.
But the first time I took my bike there for a service, they fitted parts that I hadn't authorised and specifically said up front that I would be fitting myself.
The second time they just didn't do my service, so I went in to pick up my bike and it wasn't ready.
I gave them every opportunity to get it right as they seemed like nice guys and were obviously keen cyclists themselves, but the service was just too poor.
Unsurprisingly, the shop didn't last long.
There is another shop in Wycombe, that's been there for ages, but they're unable to offer any drop off/pick up facilities outside of 9-5 hours during the week (useless for me as I commute to London) and won't take in bikes for servicing on weekends.
NB: I'm not expecting them to make changes just for my sake, but it does amaze me how many bike shops don't offer some form of early opening one day a week (say drop off on a Friday, pick up on a Saturday) to cater for commuters.
I'm left with no option but to use the dreaded Evans.
But the first time I took my bike there for a service, they fitted parts that I hadn't authorised and specifically said up front that I would be fitting myself.
The second time they just didn't do my service, so I went in to pick up my bike and it wasn't ready.
I gave them every opportunity to get it right as they seemed like nice guys and were obviously keen cyclists themselves, but the service was just too poor.
Unsurprisingly, the shop didn't last long.
There is another shop in Wycombe, that's been there for ages, but they're unable to offer any drop off/pick up facilities outside of 9-5 hours during the week (useless for me as I commute to London) and won't take in bikes for servicing on weekends.
NB: I'm not expecting them to make changes just for my sake, but it does amaze me how many bike shops don't offer some form of early opening one day a week (say drop off on a Friday, pick up on a Saturday) to cater for commuters.
I'm left with no option but to use the dreaded Evans.
Tribal Chestnut said:
^^ I'd delete the name of the shop in your text and email them a link to this thread. Daft behaviour, but it's their shop.
I deliberately didn't name the shop in my text, to comply with the 'no name and shame' forum rules. But their identity wouldn't be hard to establish from what facts I have given.I used to work in a bike shop and i can sympathise with them not wanting to interrupt the bike mechanic. Especially at this time of year we used to be struggling to build up all the bikes for Xmas, if we kept adding extra work there was a risk we'd miss our deadlines for people who ordered new bikes or for repairs requested in advance. There used to be several requests a day for little jobs just to be done while people waited, if it was quiet we'd do them, but we had to balance not been able to serve other customers with spending 15 mins fixing someones puncture.
Lending tools out wasn't much of a concern unless they could be broken by someone who wasn't mechanically sympathetic, that said, often lending tools ended up in them running out of skill and asking for help....
I can appreciate the frustration if they appeared to be quiet and just not been helpful though.
Lending tools out wasn't much of a concern unless they could be broken by someone who wasn't mechanically sympathetic, that said, often lending tools ended up in them running out of skill and asking for help....
I can appreciate the frustration if they appeared to be quiet and just not been helpful though.
I think I'd be a little annoyed too.
My experience with my LBS has been excellent; originally bought my bike from them and always gone back if things needed doing; great service and prices alike.
Very recently, I serviced/cleaned my forks/steering tube as it started to grind a bit. Put it all back together but there was movement in the forks under braking/riding over rough surfaces. Re-did the whole thing and again there was movement; really annoyed me.
Convinced the headset was knackered and bearings needing replacing (they were in ok shape), took it in to the LBS with the intention of leaving the bike with them to fix and probably cough up around £40. Got there, explained the problem to one of the guys at the service desk, he took the bike into workshop and started to work on it.
5 mins later, gave me the bike back saying it's fixed and explained that the headset wasn't screwed/aligned 100% hence the movement as the headset/screw cap needed to have a certain gap when tightening. Talked for a few mins and said the bearings could do with changing soon too.
No charge and I was on my way; utterly chuffed. Can't beat that for service.
My experience with my LBS has been excellent; originally bought my bike from them and always gone back if things needed doing; great service and prices alike.
Very recently, I serviced/cleaned my forks/steering tube as it started to grind a bit. Put it all back together but there was movement in the forks under braking/riding over rough surfaces. Re-did the whole thing and again there was movement; really annoyed me.
Convinced the headset was knackered and bearings needing replacing (they were in ok shape), took it in to the LBS with the intention of leaving the bike with them to fix and probably cough up around £40. Got there, explained the problem to one of the guys at the service desk, he took the bike into workshop and started to work on it.
5 mins later, gave me the bike back saying it's fixed and explained that the headset wasn't screwed/aligned 100% hence the movement as the headset/screw cap needed to have a certain gap when tightening. Talked for a few mins and said the bearings could do with changing soon too.
No charge and I was on my way; utterly chuffed. Can't beat that for service.
BoRED S2upid said:
Have you emailed the shop? I recently had a falling out with the service manager of a SEAT dealer he wasn't budging so called head office quick argument and my next service is free. It pays to complain not to us on ph's but to them.
I'm happy with just not spending with them anymore, to be honest. It's not really complaining, I just posted to gauge opinion. I sometimes feel justified in an opinion or an action/reaction, only to find that the majority of people I mention it to don't think the same way. I'm just glad that I'm not the 'odd one out' in this case. If the 'boss' is in the store next time I'm passing, I might pop in to gently question the 'no tool loan' stance directly with him, and maybe suggest a slightly more flexible 'common sense' approach. But I don't want a stand up argument with anyone. I've promised the wife that I won't "making a scene" anymore I get the whole 'no tool loans' thing when it comes to bigger jobs, that require more knowledge or bench space, and certainly I wouldn't expect a shop to let tools out of their sight. It was just the lack of flexibility on the removal of a single chain pin that got me, yet the lad who was 'serving' me still expected me to roll over, buy the chain from them, and book it in for the following day. As it is, there are two independent shops in Farnham, two in Farnborough, and two Halfords branches very local to me. Then there are further shops in Crowthorne, Sunningdale, Windsor and Woking, along with two branches of Evans, and even WyndyMilla off the Hog's Back. That's more than a dozen direct competitors for cycle servicing within riding distance, off the top of my head, without considering the internet alternatives, as I can do most jobs myself.
I just hoped that they'd apply a similar attitude to service as I did. I once managed to shift 275,000 rounds of small arms ammunition in 24 hours. Stated lead time for the order was 6 weeks. The (very) short notice was admitted by the (panicking) 'customer' as being caused by their own oversight. I persuaded the entire supply chain, from the authorising office at the Central Ammunition Depot, to local issuing depots and transport units to play ball, and the training went ahead as planned. My alternative stance could have been to refer the 'customer' to the written policy on the lead time for peacetime training ammo, and to go off to lunch at the appointed time.
Now that requires a hell of a lot more effort than lending a chap a chain breaker for two minutes, yet...
I'd contact the shop, tel lthem what happened and explain that this has cost them £15 in the short run and your future business in the long run. They will shrug their shoulders and say somethign like "ho hum, one less customer" and not worry about it but I guarantee it is happening all the time, at bike shops across the country. The good ones will survive by doing somethign different be it tool loans, ad hoc little jobs like this etc etc, the bad ones cant continue to operate without changing their business models.
I am lucky in that I have good shops to choose from when I have the time and get into te city centre but there are ones I wont go in though due to prices/attitude and annoyingly they are the nearest hence if its Monday and I need something, its default to Wiggle....
I am lucky in that I have good shops to choose from when I have the time and get into te city centre but there are ones I wont go in though due to prices/attitude and annoyingly they are the nearest hence if its Monday and I need something, its default to Wiggle....
Supplier doesn't have spare, not their fault.
Small tool is out of stock, not really their fault.
Won't lend you the tool, I can understand the policy in case someone hurt themselves of damaged their bike or the tool. Not worth the risk, as they can't tell the pros from the novice mechanics that walk in off the street.
Won't do the 5min job for you, as another poster said they have to do the booked work first really else you get situations like other people on this thread have posted: that they went to collect their bike but the service hadn't been done (possibly because the mechanic kept fixing chains for walk ins).
Overall it's not ideal and I can see your frustration, but it's not as bad as you're making out.
Small tool is out of stock, not really their fault.
Won't lend you the tool, I can understand the policy in case someone hurt themselves of damaged their bike or the tool. Not worth the risk, as they can't tell the pros from the novice mechanics that walk in off the street.
Won't do the 5min job for you, as another poster said they have to do the booked work first really else you get situations like other people on this thread have posted: that they went to collect their bike but the service hadn't been done (possibly because the mechanic kept fixing chains for walk ins).
Overall it's not ideal and I can see your frustration, but it's not as bad as you're making out.
I can see it from a shops point of view
Ive built up a relationship with my shop so they would probably lend me tools etc and have broken open packets etc, its taken me 18 months and a bit of spending, along with politeness. If I walked in off the street, I doubt they would be so helpful and I dont blame them.
I stick with them though as I have had 3 x bikes repaired about 10 different repairs and each one has been of a perfect standard , on time and less or to the price we agreed, proper no nonsense .
Ive been in the shop and the amount of bulls
ters/timewasters/view in shop buy on interneters is unreal, so I can understand why shops have "no grey area" and no nonsense, its a bloody minefield dealing with the great unwashed.
On the other hand YellowJack my old local shop were jobsworths, I once tried to book in an urgent wheel repair (I needed it in a day, but was very polite, it just needed 1 x spoke and a true) and the lady there tore me apart "you do realise that my husband has been up until 3am fixing bikes and YOU come in and EXPECT it today ) . Her husband came out and apologised and gave the relevant spoke for free.
Ive built up a relationship with my shop so they would probably lend me tools etc and have broken open packets etc, its taken me 18 months and a bit of spending, along with politeness. If I walked in off the street, I doubt they would be so helpful and I dont blame them.
I stick with them though as I have had 3 x bikes repaired about 10 different repairs and each one has been of a perfect standard , on time and less or to the price we agreed, proper no nonsense .
Ive been in the shop and the amount of bulls
ters/timewasters/view in shop buy on interneters is unreal, so I can understand why shops have "no grey area" and no nonsense, its a bloody minefield dealing with the great unwashed. On the other hand YellowJack my old local shop were jobsworths, I once tried to book in an urgent wheel repair (I needed it in a day, but was very polite, it just needed 1 x spoke and a true) and the lady there tore me apart "you do realise that my husband has been up until 3am fixing bikes and YOU come in and EXPECT it today ) . Her husband came out and apologised and gave the relevant spoke for free.
ilduce said:
Having read the whole post I would imagine that the shop did it on purpose so they would never have to deal with the annoying, pompous, man.
His next purchase should be a head/anus extraction tool.
From the internet of course.
Rubbish, if you don't want to deal with people and provide a service, then don't open a shop. His next purchase should be a head/anus extraction tool.
From the internet of course.
A customer in the shop, wanting stuff... it is the job of the shop to monetise that opportunity. They failed to do so.
Given the various options to fix the machine and make a sale, you would think they could have managed something slightly better than this.
Gargamel said:
ilduce said:
Having read the whole post I would imagine that the shop did it on purpose so they would never have to deal with the annoying, pompous, man.
His next purchase should be a head/anus extraction tool.
From the internet of course.
Rubbish, if you don't want to deal with people and provide a service, then don't open a shop. His next purchase should be a head/anus extraction tool.
From the internet of course.
A customer in the shop, wanting stuff... it is the job of the shop to monetise that opportunity. They failed to do so.
Given the various options to fix the machine and make a sale, you would think they could have managed something slightly better than this.
Boil it down though.
Go into a shop, buy a new bike chain, ask them to split the chain on the spot so you can fit a snap link to get you home
"Sorry mate the workshops full"
Come off it, that sucks as service. There may will be "priority" customers who have already scheduled work, but they could always stay the extra two minutes at the end of the day if they are that busy.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff