Specialized - Are they the be all and end all?
Discussion
scherzkeks said:
Because they don't make even one product that comes near justifying its incredibly inflated price.
BS, ridden a Venge or SL4 lately/ever? It's amusing that people promote Colnago who's glory days are long over yet charge as much, if not more than Specialized
As okgo says the list of Specialized wins are well documented. Most of this strange snobbery comes from people who you don't see on the roads in winter
FWIW both my bikes, Allez Comp and Rockhopper from the very early noughties and still going strong, no frame issues, most components still stock and despite lacking carbon, disc breaks and all manner of new tech I can just about keep up on or off-road so they are all right in my book.
I did look at replacing them but it would cost over £3K like for like and I would "only" gain a couple of extra ratios and loose 2-3kilos between the pair... or I could just MTFU, eat less burgers and pedal harder :-)
I did look at replacing them but it would cost over £3K like for like and I would "only" gain a couple of extra ratios and loose 2-3kilos between the pair... or I could just MTFU, eat less burgers and pedal harder :-)
I think if you look at the mid-price Specialized bikes, e.g. the Venge (not S-Works version); these are just look-e-likey versions / homage to the pro-bikes. At that price point you are not buying the same bike (a bit like the tribute Sky “fan” jerseys that retail for 50 quid). “Most” of the top end pro level bikes would retail starting @ £8.5k (for Red) upwards; whether Specialized, Trek, Colnago, Cervelo etc.
The higher grades of Carbon are more expensive to produce - especially as you cut weight. The old adage Strength, Weight or Cost pick the one you’re not bothered about; is still true today. Cutting 2-300gr of frame weight, does cost a lot; although it’s probably also correct that the accountants can get some “sucker” / weight weenie tax in there.
Over time there should be trickle down tech (the low end Venge frames already get the same “aero”); it can only be a matter of time before production of stronger / lighter Carbon makes it into normal frames (probably). I think people are understating the difficulty of producing a UCI legal 6.8kg race bike that meets the demands of the riders. Looking fast and actually being fast are not necessarily the same thing.
At least, there appears to be some R&D and tech involved in the likes of Specialized and Trek, not just mystical powers attached to certain Italian brands. Yes, I’m looking at you C60, maybe you ride “so” well because the frame is a positive porker in comparison to its peers. If it’s just about fit, how can you explain the pricing premium for certain Italian brands - “Fanboy” tax maybe?
Race winning pedigree, especially the Tarmac and Shiv does say it all (I don’t own a Specialized).
The higher grades of Carbon are more expensive to produce - especially as you cut weight. The old adage Strength, Weight or Cost pick the one you’re not bothered about; is still true today. Cutting 2-300gr of frame weight, does cost a lot; although it’s probably also correct that the accountants can get some “sucker” / weight weenie tax in there.
Over time there should be trickle down tech (the low end Venge frames already get the same “aero”); it can only be a matter of time before production of stronger / lighter Carbon makes it into normal frames (probably). I think people are understating the difficulty of producing a UCI legal 6.8kg race bike that meets the demands of the riders. Looking fast and actually being fast are not necessarily the same thing.
At least, there appears to be some R&D and tech involved in the likes of Specialized and Trek, not just mystical powers attached to certain Italian brands. Yes, I’m looking at you C60, maybe you ride “so” well because the frame is a positive porker in comparison to its peers. If it’s just about fit, how can you explain the pricing premium for certain Italian brands - “Fanboy” tax maybe?
Race winning pedigree, especially the Tarmac and Shiv does say it all (I don’t own a Specialized).
upsidedownmark said:
Neither for nor against specalized, but the cynic in me asks how much of that is down to the bike, and how much down to getting their bike under the guy/girl that was going to win it anyway 
Of course, that was my main point to the other chap. Stick Contador on a c60 or a Emonda he'll still win you a grand tour.Brad and Froome managed to win the TDF on a Dogma that was apparently 15% less stiff than the F8.
scherzkeks said:
Fourmotion said:
Their brand protection team are a bunch of twunts however.
A rant just emphasising my last point without addressing my point about their bikes. They clearly are good enough as other posters have pointed out too.
All the mass market manufacturers are no different and therefore Specialized are no different. I like Trek bikes ... I buy and own Trek bikes ... in reality I know I could like Spec/Giant/Scott in just the same way. So I see most bikes from the mass producers as 'the same as each other' ... they all compete for the same customers and therefore produce bikes with Ultegra/DA/105 and very similar frames. They're all just big marketing machines and those with the best budget and not necessarily the best bikes will lead the market. Thats not to say anyone bikes are bad, they just might not be better than the next.
Enjoy your Specialized. IMO they're not as good as they used to be.
Their MO 10 years ago when I got into cycling for the second time was to offer the best £400-£500 bikes you could get - the Rockhopper HT was genuinely great for the money and I'm told their road bike for the same money was equally good - they attracted loads of customers new to the sport and when the bug inevitably bit and £500 went from an obscene amount of money for a bike to a cheap bike in the minds of customers they were very well placed to sell them that £2000 second bike and to a certain extent they still make great entry level bikes but they've lost their way in recent years on the MTB side.
When the MTB world stopped caring about Nutters 'hucking' off 40ft drops and started caring about Downhillers chasing seconds they were still trying to sell their Demo line of 2 wheels tanks, they tried to fix it with a Demo 9 which was even heavier and slower than the Demo 8 and the Big Hit, but it was really a cut-price Demo and it waded into battle with a 24" rear wheel everyone hated, it took them until 2011 to make an actual Downhill Race Bike - which pretty much coincided with the MTB starting to care more about Enduro Racing.
Which should have be brilliant for Spesh, they actually had a bike called an Endruo and had done for 10 years or so - for years they made pretty much the only big trail bike you could buy off the shelf and it was a belter - shame they balls it all up a few years before by trying to make their own suspension forks and shocks, which everyone hated and failed, a lot.
To add insult to injury just when their Enduro bike was good, in fact great and the choice for 90% of Privateer Enduro Racers they decided that 29" bikes were the way forward, thankfully they sold 26" versions too, but deciding that 650b was a flash in the pan (perhaps wary due to their love with 24" wheels 5 years before) they didn't make a single 650b bike when the rest of the industry make almost nothing but. I wish they were right, but they were wrong and all the privateers left them for 650b wheeled bikes - and race wins sell bikes.
IMO I'm sure they still sell huge numbers, but they're not nearly as cool as they were, the cheaper stuff is good value (or was last I checked) and they sell some very very fancy high end stuff - the 90% in the middle is neither here nor there - it's the 'obvious choice' as someone said the GM of bikes - without that cool halo factor they are very expensive against people like Rose and YT and not nearly as cool as a Santa Cruz or Intense.
Their MO 10 years ago when I got into cycling for the second time was to offer the best £400-£500 bikes you could get - the Rockhopper HT was genuinely great for the money and I'm told their road bike for the same money was equally good - they attracted loads of customers new to the sport and when the bug inevitably bit and £500 went from an obscene amount of money for a bike to a cheap bike in the minds of customers they were very well placed to sell them that £2000 second bike and to a certain extent they still make great entry level bikes but they've lost their way in recent years on the MTB side.
When the MTB world stopped caring about Nutters 'hucking' off 40ft drops and started caring about Downhillers chasing seconds they were still trying to sell their Demo line of 2 wheels tanks, they tried to fix it with a Demo 9 which was even heavier and slower than the Demo 8 and the Big Hit, but it was really a cut-price Demo and it waded into battle with a 24" rear wheel everyone hated, it took them until 2011 to make an actual Downhill Race Bike - which pretty much coincided with the MTB starting to care more about Enduro Racing.
Which should have be brilliant for Spesh, they actually had a bike called an Endruo and had done for 10 years or so - for years they made pretty much the only big trail bike you could buy off the shelf and it was a belter - shame they balls it all up a few years before by trying to make their own suspension forks and shocks, which everyone hated and failed, a lot.
To add insult to injury just when their Enduro bike was good, in fact great and the choice for 90% of Privateer Enduro Racers they decided that 29" bikes were the way forward, thankfully they sold 26" versions too, but deciding that 650b was a flash in the pan (perhaps wary due to their love with 24" wheels 5 years before) they didn't make a single 650b bike when the rest of the industry make almost nothing but. I wish they were right, but they were wrong and all the privateers left them for 650b wheeled bikes - and race wins sell bikes.
IMO I'm sure they still sell huge numbers, but they're not nearly as cool as they were, the cheaper stuff is good value (or was last I checked) and they sell some very very fancy high end stuff - the 90% in the middle is neither here nor there - it's the 'obvious choice' as someone said the GM of bikes - without that cool halo factor they are very expensive against people like Rose and YT and not nearly as cool as a Santa Cruz or Intense.
Edited by P-Jay on Monday 19th January 14:06
k Specialized I say. I don't understand the argument that they have won all the major honours and that Cav etc don't complain about theirs.
They make a massive range of bikes, and away from the pro level, where us mere mortals ride (and shop) I think they have lost their way recently. I was looking at a Tarmac in the local LBS; last year's model, and the price reduction from 1500 to 900 caught my interest. On closer inspection it had a Sora groupset on it. No wonder they didn't sell it at 1500! I'd put up with Sora on a 500 bike, but at three times that?
I own a Specialised Cirrus which I have had for over 20 years, plus a Hard Rock I've had for about 7 years, and bought my son a secondhand Allez a year ago. All good bikes, all vfm compared to the competition at the time when new. I don't think they have many bikes that are competitive now, unless you're right up at the top end.
They make a massive range of bikes, and away from the pro level, where us mere mortals ride (and shop) I think they have lost their way recently. I was looking at a Tarmac in the local LBS; last year's model, and the price reduction from 1500 to 900 caught my interest. On closer inspection it had a Sora groupset on it. No wonder they didn't sell it at 1500! I'd put up with Sora on a 500 bike, but at three times that?
I own a Specialised Cirrus which I have had for over 20 years, plus a Hard Rock I've had for about 7 years, and bought my son a secondhand Allez a year ago. All good bikes, all vfm compared to the competition at the time when new. I don't think they have many bikes that are competitive now, unless you're right up at the top end.
Daveyraveygravey said:
They make a massive range of bikes, and away from the pro level, where us mere mortals ride (and shop) I think they have lost their way recently. I was looking at a Tarmac in the local LBS; last year's model, and the price reduction from 1500 to 900 caught my interest. On closer inspection it had a Sora groupset on it. No wonder they didn't sell it at 1500! I'd put up with Sora on a 500 bike, but at three times that?
Not surprising. At the higher end they have also had a rash of quality issues with their carbon frames over the past few years.
scherzkeks said:
Not surprising.
At the higher end they have also had a rash of quality issues with their carbon frames over the past few years.
AFAIK they have only recalled forks and unlike certain Italian manufacturers not only did Specialized issue a voluntary recall, they also compensated owners. Did someone on a Specialized steal your lollipop?At the higher end they have also had a rash of quality issues with their carbon frames over the past few years.
yonex said:
AFAIK they have only recalled forks and unlike certain Italian manufacturers not only did Specialized issue a voluntary recall, they also compensated owners. Did someone on a Specialized steal your lollipop?
You're still allowed to ride your favorite corporate fred sled. Now run along.P-Jay said:
When the MTB world stopped caring about Nutters 'hucking' off 40ft drops and started caring about Downhillers chasing seconds they were still trying to sell their Demo line of 2 wheels tanks, they tried to fix it with a Demo 9 which was even heavier and slower than the Demo 8 and the Big Hit, but it was really a cut-price Demo and it waded into battle with a 24" rear wheel everyone hated, it took them until 2011 to make an actual Downhill Race Bike - which pretty much coincided with the MTB starting to care more about Enduro Racing.
I agree with your post as a whole, but I'm pretty sure you have a couple of points wrong in that paragraph.Your post implies that the demo series of huck bikes came first, predating the bighit, which they tried to make more respectable with the demo 9 which was a cut price frame with a 24" rear wheel, and that they didnt make a respected DH race bike until 2011
[pedant mode]
The following is entirely from memory and personal experience so I may be off on some details, but I'm pretty sure the history of specialized big travel frames goes something like this:
The bighit first came about in 2002 as a replacement to the FSR downhill frame of 2001 (which was just a longer travel version of the earlier trail frames going back to the early 90's). It was an affordable hucker and general purpose gravity assited riding machine; it had a 24" rear wheel and was a pretty much instant hit. For 2003 they modified the linkage and sold it both full build and as frame only for the bargain basement price of £750, which was just about the cheapest legitimately good long travel frame you could buy (frames like the coyote DH3 and azonic eliminator came close on price, but were a bit crap), and certainly the only one with a horst linkage. To get the same suspension tech from another brand would cost upward of £2000 for stuff like the azonic recoil or the mighty Intense M1
then in 2004 they made the demo 9, which sported a 26" rear wheel, 9 inch travel, lots of weight and a hefty price tag. this was kinda successful and was a bit of a dream bike at the time, but people weren't convinced by paying the sort of money for a specialized that would get you on something from a more exotic brand (santa cruz V10 for example).
2005 they continued the demo 9 and released the new demo 8. demo 8 was same travel and dropout spacing as bighit (8.1" and 135mm qr) but used the same linkage system as the demo 9, and was priced in the middle of the two. demo 8 was popular with privateer DH racers pretty much straight away as it was much lighter and more affordable than the 9
for 2006 they dropped the demo 9 (or maybe '07, im not entirely sure), significantly changed the design of the bighit (it too got a 26" rear wheel, but was made a lot more cheap looking and basically became the bottom of the range gravity bike) and slightly changed the demo 8
since then the bighit changed significantly once more in 2009 or so, and was dropped completely for 2011. it started as a well respected affordable gravity bike with a quirky wheel size but ended as a crappy cheap looking 'my first big bike' thing.
The demo 8 has received small changes every year since its release and has grown in popularity and price from an affordable (but not quite as cheap as the bighit) downhill machine to the mega money super racers bike it is today.
demo 9 was sought after when it was released, but was always too big and fat and was just a little too late for the hucking craze of the early 2000's
sources: owning a 2002 bighit, 2003 bighit, 2006 demo 8 and starting my obsession with downhill around this time
[/pedant]
yonex said:
AFAIK they have only recalled forks and unlike certain Italian manufacturers not only did Specialized issue a voluntary recall, they also compensated owners.
specialized have always been known (at least in MTB circles) for being very good with warranty issues; I've heard stories of them offering replacement frames to people who are not the original owner, and of them offering newer models as replacements rather than strictly like for likeGassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff