Is It Just Me That Thinks This Cycle Highway Is A Joke?

[Type R Tom]

ZX10R NIN said:

Okay fair point on the vulnerable vs accident rate, I ride (by motorbike) into Central London 3-4 times a week & have ridden into Central London for over Ten years, my point has always been that this scheme is badly thought out & that in order to make the roads a better place & actually get London moving we actual need integration not separation.
Road planning needs to reflect what's happening on the roads not what political stance is flavour of the month.

If you want more people riding Pedal/Motor Bikes depending on your commute raising everyone's awareness levels is a great start designing junctions properly all add up to making the roads better for all.

As I said in my first post I have no ax to grind with cyclists my view would be the same if it was motorcyclists this solution doesn't help.

I agree(to help stop the headaches)the people I'd love to speak to are the actual road planners but you never get to see these faceless wonders.

I also have no problem with cycle lanes but this Super cycle path seems to badly thought out. IMHO

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 2nd February 17:56

Now you’re not going to like this but it needs to be said. Unfortunately I come across attitudes like yours on a daily basis; just because you have “ridden into London for 10 years” you are not an expert on highway engineering! Just because the scheme doesn’t benefit you does not mean they have been “badly thought out”. Also “road planning to reflect what’s happening”? Based on the increase in cycling over the last few years that is exactly what is happening!

Just incase you are wondering, I don’t work for TFL but for your information, TfL board make the final decision on the cycle routes on Wednesday, have a look at all this badly thought out information, sure someone knocked it all up in a couple of hours before they spent the rest of the day counting up their gold plated pensions.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/bo...

So as a self-appointed expert, what do you think the future of London should look like?

[Type R Tom]

Kermit power said:

That's a valid point, but I think the flaw in your argument with regards to the Netherlands at least is that commuting distances there are significantly shorter than they are in London. There's nothing I can do to alter the fact that my ride is 15 miles each way. A 3 mile ride would, of course, be perfectly manageable at a pootle in work clothes, but a 15 mile ride isn't, regardless of how well managed junctions are.

This is before you consider the fact that there's a side road probably every 200 yards on the second half of my commute. How on earth can you create a segregated cycle lane in those circumstances, unless you run it above other traffic on a flyover?

I take your point and I've had exactly the same thoughts, 15 miles is a good commute for the UK, let alone on a bike. It is the short journeys we need to do something about though, people driving 3 miles when they could cycle. If segregated lanes is what they need to get them out of their car, then they need to be built.

[Kermit power]

Type R Tom said:

Kermit power said:

That's a valid point, but I think the flaw in your argument with regards to the Netherlands at least is that commuting distances there are significantly shorter than they are in London. There's nothing I can do to alter the fact that my ride is 15 miles each way. A 3 mile ride would, of course, be perfectly manageable at a pootle in work clothes, but a 15 mile ride isn't, regardless of how well managed junctions are.

This is before you consider the fact that there's a side road probably every 200 yards on the second half of my commute. How on earth can you create a segregated cycle lane in those circumstances, unless you run it above other traffic on a flyover?

I take your point and I've had exactly the same thoughts, 15 miles is a good commute for the UK, let alone on a bike. It is the short journeys we need to do something about though, people driving 3 miles when they could cycle. If segregated lanes is what they need to get them out of their car, then they need to be built.

I suspect that rather more important if we want to emulate the Netherlands would be to bulldozer the entire country flat. The notion of masses of middle-aged women on Dutch shopper bikes is all well and good, but chuck in just a couple of hundred yards at 5% gradient and then see how many stick with it.

[Dammit]

London is pretty flat, the fearsome Hors Category climb I face each morning, the Col du Pons Waterloo, is a stern test of anyone however.

[Mr Gear]

To the OP:

I have been commuting by motorcycle into (and out of) London for 14 years now. But for the last 2-3 years, I have preferred to take a bicycle. Going via motorbike is just too frustrating! It takes about 40 minutes on a motorbike to cover 15 miles, that's a pathetic 20 miles an hour average. It takes 50 minutes to cover the slightly longer 16.5 mile route I do via bicycle, and because I can ride through Richmond Park, there are no traffic lights and little traffic for that part of the journey.

I love my cycle commute so much that the motorbike stays in the garage unless the weather is really vile or I have lots of stuff to carry.

If only more people got off their fat arses and tried it, London simply wouldn't experience the traffic problems it has now. Plus, you get more me-time, because I haven't needed to go to the gym since I started cycling regularly. Building decent cycle lanes is important for many would-be cyclists, who find them reassuring.

As a motorcyclist, I can honestly say that I have never been delayed for more than a few seconds by a cyclist. The problem that causes such patheticlly slow progress even on a motorbike in London (in case you hadn't noticed) is cars, buses and taxis... and guess what more cyclists would do for the numbers of those?

[Mr Gear]

ZX10R NIN said:

But the facts are more Motorcyclists died last year on London's Roads than Cyclists by a ratio of nearly 2to1 so by taking away road space do you really think that figure will decrease?

I actually feel a lot safer on my motorcycle than on a bike. For a start, the only people that pull spastic overtakes on me when on my motorbike are other motorcyclists.

I can also wear a full-face helmet, leathers, a back protector, my motorcycle has ABS and 12 volt lights.

The only thing that makes it more dangerous than a bicycle is the throttle and the idiot in charge of it. You can't stop people pulling out in front of you, or changing lanes without looking, but if you ride carefully and within your limits, you have very little to fear on a motorcycle.

I can't help thinking that the danger, as you see it, is speed. On a bike, the maximum speed you can really do is about 30mph. On a motorbike, the maximum speed is wherever you want it to be. More velocity = more momentum = more unpleasant ending.

[Kermit power]

Dammit said:

London is pretty flat, the fearsome Hors Category climb I face each morning, the Col du Pons Waterloo, is a stern test of anyone however.

Much of it is, but if you're an inexperienced cyclist on a lump of pig iron, much of it isn't. I certainly wouldn't bet on too many people doing much Dutch style riding around places like Hampstead or Crystal Palace, no matter how good the infrastructure, and whilst Central London is pretty flat, how many of the people who might be cycling would actually live there, as opposed to riding in from the suburbs?

[anonymous-user]

Dammit said:

London is pretty flat, the fearsome Hors Category climb I face each morning, the Col du Pons Waterloo, is a stern test of anyone however.

I raise you the Col du St Jean in the SW11 department. The locals call it the Giant of Clapham. It stands alone, visible from miles around. Some say it isn't really extinct, just dormant.

[ZX10R NIN]

Mr Gear said:

To the OP:

I have been commuting by motorcycle into (and out of) London for 14 years now. But for the last 2-3 years, I have preferred to take a bicycle. Going via motorbike is just too frustrating! It takes about 40 minutes on a motorbike to cover 15 miles, that's a pathetic 20 miles an hour average. It takes 50 minutes to cover the slightly longer 16.5 mile route I do via bicycle, and because I can ride through Richmond Park, there are no traffic lights and little traffic for that part of the journey.

I love my cycle commute so much that the motorbike stays in the garage unless the weather is really vile or I have lots of stuff to carry.

If only more people got off their fat arses and tried it, London simply wouldn't experience the traffic problems it has now. Plus, you get more me-time, because I haven't needed to go to the gym since I started cycling regularly. Building decent cycle lanes is important for many would-be cyclists, who find them reassuring.

As a motorcyclist, I can honestly say that I have never been delayed for more than a few seconds by a cyclist. The problem that causes such patheticlly slow progress even on a motorbike in London (in case you hadn't noticed) is cars, buses and taxis... and guess what more cyclists would do for the numbers of those?

I have never said push bikes hold me up, I have been saying that should this cycle lane go in that'll make it harder for those commuting by motorised transport. It takes me around 40-50 minutes to ride from near Brands Hatch to St Johns street yes cars etc hold me up & it won't get any better with the cycle lane in

[Mr Gear]

ZX10R NIN said:

I have never said push bikes hold me up, I have been saying that should this cycle lane go in that'll make it harder for those commuting by motorised transport. It takes me around 40-50 minutes to ride from near Brands Hatch to St Johns street yes cars etc hold me up & it won't get any better with the cycle lane in

A few people might move out of their cars and onto bikes, therefore less congestion. You can already see that happening in parts of London.

[ZX10R NIN]

Type R Tom said:

Now you’re not going to like this but it needs to be said. Unfortunately I come across attitudes like yours on a daily basis; just because you have “ridden into London for 10 years” you are not an expert on highway engineering! Just because the scheme doesn’t benefit you does not mean they have been “badly thought out”. Also “road planning to reflect what’s happening”? Based on the increase in cycling over the last few years that is exactly what is happening!

Just incase you are wondering, I don’t work for TFL but for your information, TfL board make the final decision on the cycle routes on Wednesday, have a look at all this badly thought out information, sure someone knocked it all up in a couple of hours before they spent the rest of the day counting up their gold plated pensions.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/bo...

So as a self-appointed expert, what do you think the future of London should look like?

I'd have preferred if you were part of the board. I've never said I was an expert, as for my suggestion on what to do instead of taking a lane out go back & you'll see it.

[okgo]

It will as eventually people throw the towel in regards driving their cars into central London and get on the train, bus, bike, instead.

[Mr Gear]

okgo said:

It will as eventually people throw the towel in regards driving their cars into central London and get on the train, bus, bike, instead.

News just in: http://road.cc/content/news/141828-bikes-make-one-...

[Hoofy]

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

[anonymous-user]

Hoofy said:

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

I get all my expensive bike stuff delivered to work so that Mrs66 doesn't see it. Then I drive in, bring it home in the car, and smuggle it in from the boot once she's out of the house. "No dear, the wheels have always looked like that. You're *so* unobservant..."

Driving in at the weekend would raise suspicions.

[okgo]

Hoofy said:

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

To be fair outside of rush hour and school run (you'd be AMAZED at how much traffic is school run related even in central) it is mostly cabs and buses. But during the peak hours there are a huge number of other people, god knows where they all park and who pays the £££££ they must have to shell on congestion.

[Hoofy]

Greg66 said:

Hoofy said:

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

I get all my expensive bike stuff delivered to work so that Mrs66 doesn't see it. Then I drive in, bring it home in the car, and smuggle it in from the boot once she's out of the house. "No dear, the wheels have always looked like that. You're *so* unobservant..."

Driving in at the weekend would raise suspicions.

Everyday? I think you have a problem.

[Hoofy]

okgo said:

Hoofy said:

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

To be fair outside of rush hour and school run (you'd be AMAZED at how much traffic is school run related even in central) it is mostly cabs and buses. But during the peak hours there are a huge number of other people, god knows where they all park and who pays the £££££ they must have to shell on congestion.

Yeah, well, even if the company paid for my parking and congestion charge, I still wouldn't drive in. The underground system is so convenient.

[anonymous-user]

Hoofy said:

Greg66 said:

Hoofy said:

Dunno why anyone bar delivery drivers and taxis drive in central London during the daytime.

I get all my expensive bike stuff delivered to work so that Mrs66 doesn't see it. Then I drive in, bring it home in the car, and smuggle it in from the boot once she's out of the house. "No dear, the wheels have always looked like that. You're *so* unobservant..."

Driving in at the weekend would raise suspicions.

Everyday? I think you have a problem.

Problem? It's not a problem! I can give it up anytime I want. I just don't want to, that's all, not right now, anyway ...

[heebeegeetee]

Kermit power said:

I suspect that rather more important if we want to emulate the Netherlands would be to bulldozer the entire country flat. The notion of masses of middle-aged women on Dutch shopper bikes is all well and good, but chuck in just a couple of hundred yards at 5% gradient and then see how many stick with it.

If we do well, maybe we'll have as many cyclists as Switzerland.

https://www.spokefly.com/blog/top-10-countries-bic...

http://www.cyclorama.net/viewArticle.php?id=125