Is It Just Me That Thinks This Cycle Highway Is A Joke?

[ZX10R NIN]

Hoofy said:

Who wants something banned?

Someone was saying ban trucks from the rush hour that's not practical nor is it a proper answer to the problem.

[ZX10R NIN]

I wonder why this topic was put into the Pedal Power Forum rather than the General Gassing Forum I posted it on could it be that PH doesn't want this subject debated?

[ZX10R NIN]

Dammit said:

^This is totally untrue, VED is not hypothecated, it goes straight into general taxation.

That your tenner a month goes on the roads is fantasy, a fantasy that is sadly used by bigots to justify their own selfishness.

I'd abolish VED and put 2p on a litre of fuel tomorrow if I was King.

I'd vote for that lets make you king

[ZX10R NIN]

Kermit power said:

I wouldn't argue with your statistics, but speaking anecdotaly, I suspect that this new cycle route - if it slows motorbikes down - is possibly the best thing you could do to improve the safety of motorcyclists in Central London.

I've been commuting fairly regularly into Central London by pushbike for the last three years. In that time, I've seen 5 other cyclists in accidents and 3 motorcyclists.

Three of the cyclists were taken down by motorists turning left across them, actually all in the same place - Clapham Common Southside turning onto Rookery Row - and the other two were caused by other cyclists not looking and pulling out into them.

The motorcyclists, on the other hand, all went down the same way. They floored it (or whatever the equivalent for motorcyclists is! ) when they got a bit of space, only for a motorist to pull out of a side road into them because they've completely underestimated their speed.

Fortunately, none of the people I've seen come off were seriously injured, but one thing was pretty clear. The best way to help cyclists would've been complete segregation, but the best way to help motorcyclists could be perfectly helped by just slowing them down a bit.

Quick acceleration doesn't mean your speeding also I was taken out on a clear piece of road, this is always the common perception that all motorcyclists are speeding.

I was also taken out by a cyclist jumping a red light so does that make it my fault?

[ZX10R NIN]

Kermit power said:

Where did I say that quick acceleration meant speeding? In some cases it does, whilst in others it doesn't. Either way, it tends to surprise motorists in Central London traffic, because they have a tendency to expect other traffic to be moving at their snail's pace, so tend to misjudge the speed of vehicles which are capable of moving faster than them.

Cyclists get it frequently too, because even though we're not moving as fast as a motorbike can, we're still moving much faster than the average witless buffoon expects a cyclist to move, so out they come regardless.

My proposal is that if this Superhighway slows motorcyclists down, it will probably improve their safety. If my assumption is correct, then I would assume you would support the Superhighway? After all, you're not complaining about it because it will slow you down, you're complaining about it because you think it will make you less safe, and I don't believe it will.

Motorcyclists speed isn't an issue with most of the accidents in London, motorists that are frustrated sitting in traffic from badly thought out roadways & junctions means that they aren't taking as much care as they should & by removing a lane from them isn't going to help in fact I think it'll make it worse.

As I've said integration is the key to making ALL traffic flow through London, traffic that's moving normally means that people aren't diving for gaps (you will always get a minority of bad riding/driving) but you lessen this when traffics flowing, the cycle lane doesn't help this.

As a road user all of us should be taking the road planners to task & making them make roads that better reflect today's traffic conditions. All Boris has managed by doing this is play the best game of divide & conquer I've seen in a while.

[ZX10R NIN]

upsidedownmark said:

ZX10R.. I think you must be in an alternate universe - to me at least! (as one who has spent 5 years commuting into london on a motorbike, and has a sportsbike for fun & trackdays).

I also think you're confusing vulnerability with accident rate. Simply looking at the number of deaths is not relevant: I'm pretty sure that more people are killed in cars than on motorbikes - does that make the car driver more vulnerable? No. More numerous - yes. For a worthwhile comparison you need to normalise against miles covered, or some similar measure. Personally I'd be fairly confident that would immediately redress the balance.

I would also suggest that speed is very much an aggravating factor in a large proportion of commuting motorbike accidents - whether speeding or not. Generally we ride centre lane, or filtering. Where do our threats come from? Side roads, SMIDSY U-turns, and so on. Generally everyone who's tried to / nearly taken me out has done so from my field of vision - classic examples: Car out of side road. Car turns left across bus lane.

In all those cases I have had the opportunity to assess what might happen and make my decisions accordingly, to control my environment. Frankly, if I'd been a bit less 'assertive' about making progress, it wouldn't have been close. Yes I had right of way, etc, but backing off a bit would have saved a few skidmarks. Sure it's legal for me to do 30 down a bus lane inside stationary traffic approaching a junction. Is it smart? Probably not. I also regularly see people riding a heap more aggressively and faster than I think sensible. Fair enough, you make those decisions and accept the consequences, but don't bleat about being vulnerable when it goes wrong - it's a big bad world out there, you have to assume other people make mistakes, and give them room to do so, otherwise you're not going to last long.

I also ride a (pedal) bike, though not in the city / commuting. There pretty much all my threats come from behind, mainly close / inappropriate passes, and impatience. There's little I can do about that; I can't control that environment. To me, *that* is vulnerability.

Personally I'd rather not see a proliferation of bike lanes - mainly because they're mostly unsuitable for bikes, but that's another matter. There are just too many vehicles (of all types) with too many egos trying to fit through too small a space.. unfortunately it's already been proven that adding more road space does not ease the problem - there is no easy answer, but IMHO you're banging your head on the wrong wall.

Okay fair point on the vulnerable vs accident rate, I ride (by motorbike) into Central London 3-4 times a week & have ridden into Central London for over Ten years, my point has always been that this scheme is badly thought out & that in order to make the roads a better place & actually get London moving we actual need integration not separation.
Road planning needs to reflect what's happening on the roads not what political stance is flavour of the month.

If you want more people riding Pedal/Motor Bikes depending on your commute raising everyone's awareness levels is a great start designing junctions properly all add up to making the roads better for all.

As I said in my first post I have no ax to grind with cyclists my view would be the same if it was motorcyclists this solution doesn't help.

I agree(to help stop the headaches)the people I'd love to speak to are the actual road planners but you never get to see these faceless wonders.

I also have no problem with cycle lanes but this Super cycle path seems to badly thought out. IMHO

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 2nd February 17:56

[ZX10R NIN]

Mr Gear said:

To the OP:

I have been commuting by motorcycle into (and out of) London for 14 years now. But for the last 2-3 years, I have preferred to take a bicycle. Going via motorbike is just too frustrating! It takes about 40 minutes on a motorbike to cover 15 miles, that's a pathetic 20 miles an hour average. It takes 50 minutes to cover the slightly longer 16.5 mile route I do via bicycle, and because I can ride through Richmond Park, there are no traffic lights and little traffic for that part of the journey.

I love my cycle commute so much that the motorbike stays in the garage unless the weather is really vile or I have lots of stuff to carry.

If only more people got off their fat arses and tried it, London simply wouldn't experience the traffic problems it has now. Plus, you get more me-time, because I haven't needed to go to the gym since I started cycling regularly. Building decent cycle lanes is important for many would-be cyclists, who find them reassuring.

As a motorcyclist, I can honestly say that I have never been delayed for more than a few seconds by a cyclist. The problem that causes such patheticlly slow progress even on a motorbike in London (in case you hadn't noticed) is cars, buses and taxis... and guess what more cyclists would do for the numbers of those?

I have never said push bikes hold me up, I have been saying that should this cycle lane go in that'll make it harder for those commuting by motorised transport. It takes me around 40-50 minutes to ride from near Brands Hatch to St Johns street yes cars etc hold me up & it won't get any better with the cycle lane in

[ZX10R NIN]

Type R Tom said:

Now you’re not going to like this but it needs to be said. Unfortunately I come across attitudes like yours on a daily basis; just because you have “ridden into London for 10 years” you are not an expert on highway engineering! Just because the scheme doesn’t benefit you does not mean they have been “badly thought out”. Also “road planning to reflect what’s happening”? Based on the increase in cycling over the last few years that is exactly what is happening!

Just incase you are wondering, I don’t work for TFL but for your information, TfL board make the final decision on the cycle routes on Wednesday, have a look at all this badly thought out information, sure someone knocked it all up in a couple of hours before they spent the rest of the day counting up their gold plated pensions.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/bo...

So as a self-appointed expert, what do you think the future of London should look like?

I'd have preferred if you were part of the board. I've never said I was an expert, as for my suggestion on what to do instead of taking a lane out go back & you'll see it.