Do you 'engage' with motorists?
Discussion
Interested in other people's opinions / experiences on this...
Out for a Sunday morning ride yesterday, a Hyundai i10 affected a particularly close pass on me.
Rather than waiting ~5secs, they decided to overtake parallel with a pedestrian crossing island in the middle of the road. I'd estimate the pass was within one foot of me. Red mist descended, and I managed to tap the rear window of the car with a half-extended arm. Cue gestures from one of the passengers of the car, signalling that I should be 'more to the left'.
This pissed me off a little, and I wondered is there any point in 'engaging' with motorists in situations like this? The downside is (as we see on so many videos online) that you may encounter a nutter who is happy to jump out of the car and use physical violence. Given the passenger's gesture to me afterwards, they clearly believe they are in the right and probably now have a negative opinion of cyclists. Therefore me 'engaging' with them has not had the desired effect.
On the other hand, it was a poor overtake, and I was annoyed to be put in a position which could have been avoided with a minimal amount of patience. Rapping the rear window didn't prevent the overtake happening in the first place, however did highlight to the driver how close they were!
Overall, it certainly tainted the ride. Perhaps a quick shake of the head and a promise to ride more defensively next time is the best approach?
Out for a Sunday morning ride yesterday, a Hyundai i10 affected a particularly close pass on me.
Rather than waiting ~5secs, they decided to overtake parallel with a pedestrian crossing island in the middle of the road. I'd estimate the pass was within one foot of me. Red mist descended, and I managed to tap the rear window of the car with a half-extended arm. Cue gestures from one of the passengers of the car, signalling that I should be 'more to the left'.
This pissed me off a little, and I wondered is there any point in 'engaging' with motorists in situations like this? The downside is (as we see on so many videos online) that you may encounter a nutter who is happy to jump out of the car and use physical violence. Given the passenger's gesture to me afterwards, they clearly believe they are in the right and probably now have a negative opinion of cyclists. Therefore me 'engaging' with them has not had the desired effect.
On the other hand, it was a poor overtake, and I was annoyed to be put in a position which could have been avoided with a minimal amount of patience. Rapping the rear window didn't prevent the overtake happening in the first place, however did highlight to the driver how close they were!
Overall, it certainly tainted the ride. Perhaps a quick shake of the head and a promise to ride more defensively next time is the best approach?
I try not to engage, as above, take control of the situation and move out so they cant get past at pinch points and up your speed, take primary position.
Or wave them through beforehand, if possible and ease off
The trouble is that hitting on the car isn't going to achieve anything, they aren't going to go "oh im ever so sorry" (or occasionally it happens), they will just think they were right and you will get drawn into some stupid argument with an idiot and you can't argue with idiots as they will lower you down to their level and win on experience.
Always remember that they are in a huge 2 tone metal barge, you are on a bike!
I did once have a guy deliberately try and put me under pressure by tailgating with his horn in heavy rain , then brush past me on purpose. I was out with my dogs later and realised he lived in the street next to me and he was out unloading his car, I asked why he was so impatient and took issue with me, but he was just a stuttering wimp and ran inside!
Or wave them through beforehand, if possible and ease off
The trouble is that hitting on the car isn't going to achieve anything, they aren't going to go "oh im ever so sorry" (or occasionally it happens), they will just think they were right and you will get drawn into some stupid argument with an idiot and you can't argue with idiots as they will lower you down to their level and win on experience.
Always remember that they are in a huge 2 tone metal barge, you are on a bike!
I did once have a guy deliberately try and put me under pressure by tailgating with his horn in heavy rain , then brush past me on purpose. I was out with my dogs later and realised he lived in the street next to me and he was out unloading his car, I asked why he was so impatient and took issue with me, but he was just a stuttering wimp and ran inside!
Its a tough call - i dont want to get into a fight with anyone (not when im wearing cleats anyway) but on the other hand, why should bullies get away with (at best) ruining my ride, or (at worst) risking my safety, without receiving my wrath?
Was out a couple of weekends ago - long straight road, lightly traffic'd. Hadnt been overtaken for a while then suddenly theres a long blaring horn (ie, hand kept on the horn). Its enough to startle me but i dont turn around. After a few seconds (horn still on) im overtaken by a Nissan Micra - but thats not the one with the horn - no, thats a BMW X5, who then overtakes me, only releasing the horn so that he can shout out the passenger window "you should be on the cycle path!"
(The fact im doing over 18mph means that in fact i shouldn't be)
As he pulls violently in in front of me i clearly flip him the bird - so he slams his brakes on, meaning i have to slam my brakes on too (and i dont have ABS to avoid a skid). He doesnt stop though, and speeds off - and i give him the bird again.
I wasnt holding traffic up, i wasnt jumping lights, i wasnt harming anyone. Why would someone act like that?
Annoyingly i got a gopro a few days before and had planned to test it out on that ride but couldnt be bothered getting it clamped on the bars. Wish i had - i would have dropped that bit of footage off at the copshop.
Was out a couple of weekends ago - long straight road, lightly traffic'd. Hadnt been overtaken for a while then suddenly theres a long blaring horn (ie, hand kept on the horn). Its enough to startle me but i dont turn around. After a few seconds (horn still on) im overtaken by a Nissan Micra - but thats not the one with the horn - no, thats a BMW X5, who then overtakes me, only releasing the horn so that he can shout out the passenger window "you should be on the cycle path!"
(The fact im doing over 18mph means that in fact i shouldn't be)
As he pulls violently in in front of me i clearly flip him the bird - so he slams his brakes on, meaning i have to slam my brakes on too (and i dont have ABS to avoid a skid). He doesnt stop though, and speeds off - and i give him the bird again.
I wasnt holding traffic up, i wasnt jumping lights, i wasnt harming anyone. Why would someone act like that?
Annoyingly i got a gopro a few days before and had planned to test it out on that ride but couldnt be bothered getting it clamped on the bars. Wish i had - i would have dropped that bit of footage off at the copshop.
daddy cool, that sounds like a nasty experience.
In Germany we legally have to be on the cyclepath, if it´s marked with a blue sign, regardless of our speed or the amount of pedestrians on it. In reality it´s not enforced but the odd motorist will get wound up if you´re on the road and not on the cyclepath, regardless of its condition.
It all gets a bit sketchy in winter if the mini gritter hasn´t been over the CP/pavement, you have the choice of winding up the motorists who think you´re in the wrong part of the road, or skidding to a painful crash on ice.
The joys of cycle commuting in Frankfurt.
In Germany we legally have to be on the cyclepath, if it´s marked with a blue sign, regardless of our speed or the amount of pedestrians on it. In reality it´s not enforced but the odd motorist will get wound up if you´re on the road and not on the cyclepath, regardless of its condition.
It all gets a bit sketchy in winter if the mini gritter hasn´t been over the CP/pavement, you have the choice of winding up the motorists who think you´re in the wrong part of the road, or skidding to a painful crash on ice.
The joys of cycle commuting in Frankfurt.
I witnessed a confrontation at the weekend as I was finishing my ride. Two guys and I'm guessing their son who was probably 11 - 13 years old were up ahead and we in a village with quite a bit of traffic so I didn't attempt to pass them at this point. I was probably 25m or so behind them when a 5 series estate overtook me and as it did so, pulled right in so I had to stop. The traffic ahead had stopped and he/she had pulled right in to the left almost to the kerb! One foot out, glare (to be honest thats all the energy I could muster after 104 miles and 8000ft!) but when the car set off he caught the riders in front and started using his horn before cutting them up in the same way he/she'd done to me. As the road forked, the driver turned right before pulling up at a second junction ... but the rider gave chase and thumped on the side of the car/window. Cue opened window and a torrent of abuse before they left my sight so not sure what happened next ...
My first thoughts were actually that the thump on the side of the car may have been a little OTT but the driver was clearly being an arse ... plus if it was my child who was being subjected to aggressive driving like that then I'd be having words with the driver too.
My first thoughts were actually that the thump on the side of the car may have been a little OTT but the driver was clearly being an arse ... plus if it was my child who was being subjected to aggressive driving like that then I'd be having words with the driver too.
I used to, but eventually realised it made no difference and just raised my own blood pressure. I will still have words if my life is genuinely put in danger but that's no so frequent. As above I don't give drivers the opportunity at pinch points and will always take a primary position.
Interesting to hear of these experiences, keep them coming guys!
WinstonWolf said:
Use the primary position at pinch points, deny them the opportunity of putting the squeeze on you.
I'd estimate I was somewhere in between primary and secondary. I'd purposefully moved out of my 'regular' position before the pinch point - didn't stop them though! Riding in 'proper' primary would certainly have prevented the situation.TwistingMyMelon said:
The trouble is that hitting on the car isn't going to achieve anything, they aren't going to go "oh im ever so sorry"
This is my line of thought at the moment - given the gesture of the passenger, they clearly thought it was I who was in the wrong - so tapping the back of the car didn't achieve anything but to escalate the situation.daddy cool said:
Its a tough call - i dont want to get into a fight with anyone (not when im wearing cleats anyway) but on the other hand, why should bullies get away with (at best) ruining my ride, or (at worst) risking my safety, without receiving my wrath?
This is the other side of things. Why let others create a dangerous situation without making them aware of the situation?
I kind of agree with the posts above, but for me personally I'm quite shouty and aggressive in real life (not a PH director goatee wearer) but when I get on the bike want to chill out and avoid aggression , hence I prefer trying to channel my energy into avoiding road confrontation in the first place, I just now think "everyone is out to kill me" and act accordingly. There were loads of little things I used to do that would open me up to being passed to close etc
Having said all that I have snapped at people whilst on the bike and some of them actually apologised! Others wanted a fist fight with him and his 12 year old son!
Also the trouble is a mistake from a car gambles your life, plus when cycling the adrenaline is rushing and you might snap/get more aggressive than one would normally because of these two factors combined.
I think most road users are just naïve and don't realise what they are doing.
Having said all that I have snapped at people whilst on the bike and some of them actually apologised! Others wanted a fist fight with him and his 12 year old son!
Also the trouble is a mistake from a car gambles your life, plus when cycling the adrenaline is rushing and you might snap/get more aggressive than one would normally because of these two factors combined.
I think most road users are just naïve and don't realise what they are doing.
I used to quite a few years ago, but it makes no difference so now I just ignore. Even if I'm on the end of a 'punishment pass' I just carry on regardless and ignore. The driver is usually bigger than me or prepared to use physical means so it's just not worth the hassle IMO. Fortunately here in the leafy provinces it's a very rare event.
I always engage with close passers, and pull out in front of yous and turn left across yous. I just can't let it go, and I figure if they change their behaviour, or if the next car behind sees it and thinks "that was close, I'll give him some room" then it is worth the risk of meeting the psycho that wants to fight you. There are plenty of them around.
Not anymore, I can't be arsed. Why let somebody else affect(or should that be effect) your mood? I have in the past and I've ended up having "interesting" conversations with car drivers at the side of the road. The problem is , they are all running on heightened emotion and no sense or reason will get through to them until they calm down, which they aren't going to do whilst a 6'2" bloke clad in lycra is asking ( in a calm voice) why they thought their last manoeuvre was acceptable?
I usually ignore most stuff but did engage last Sunday after this close pass, and an even worse one on the guy in front. It's a 30 limit and I was doing just over 20 according to the GPS data, reckon he must have been going about 45?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoIF5AnfPp8
I stuck my fingers up at him and then when he stopped further up the road had the opportunity to speak to him. Unfortunately the camera is in the waterproof box so misses the exchange. Kinda went..
Him, leaping from his car is a very aggressive manner, What's your f
king problem you fking prick
Me, can you give us a bit more room mate
Him, More swearing and name calling and why were you putting your glasses on and why weren't you in your fking bike lane.. ( that's the token narrow one that stops and starts with cars parked in it )
Me, Just give us a bit more room
Him, More swearing then, Well you need to be more careful, you're the one that will get hurt..
Nice chap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoIF5AnfPp8
I stuck my fingers up at him and then when he stopped further up the road had the opportunity to speak to him. Unfortunately the camera is in the waterproof box so misses the exchange. Kinda went..
Him, leaping from his car is a very aggressive manner, What's your f
king problem you fking prickMe, can you give us a bit more room mate
Him, More swearing and name calling and why were you putting your glasses on and why weren't you in your f
king bike lane.. ( that's the token narrow one that stops and starts with cars parked in it )Me, Just give us a bit more room
Him, More swearing then, Well you need to be more careful, you're the one that will get hurt..
Nice chap.
If I think the manoeuvre was due to the driver not knowing any better, or just being a bit crap and dozy (eg giving aggro because I'm in primary) and I can remain calm, then I might try and explain the problem. Even if they don't seem to have taken it on board there and then, they might think about it later and realise I'm right.
But generally there's not much point. If you do so when angry they are not going to be receptive to your views, and most bad overtakes the driver knows full well they are overtaking too close but choose to do so anyway, because a few seconds of their time is more precious to them than someone else's safety. In which case, as they already don't give a st, confronting them is hardly going to turn them into a better driver.
But generally there's not much point. If you do so when angry they are not going to be receptive to your views, and most bad overtakes the driver knows full well they are overtaking too close but choose to do so anyway, because a few seconds of their time is more precious to them than someone else's safety. In which case, as they already don't give a s
t, confronting them is hardly going to turn them into a better driver.I've had a few close passes at speed I just give a small shake of the head they wont notice it but hopefully the car behind notices so they don't make the same mistake.
What I have noticed a lot recently is pickup drivers in traffic racing past me then pulling as close to the path as possible so I can't filter. To be fair I rarely filter but I find the whole action a very aggressive manoeuvre, today's driver clearly was very happy that he stopped me and I was half tempted to hop onto the pavement and then back onto the road in front of him and pop a quick smile but it would only cause a confrontation.
What I have noticed a lot recently is pickup drivers in traffic racing past me then pulling as close to the path as possible so I can't filter. To be fair I rarely filter but I find the whole action a very aggressive manoeuvre, today's driver clearly was very happy that he stopped me and I was half tempted to hop onto the pavement and then back onto the road in front of him and pop a quick smile but it would only cause a confrontation.
On the flip side, I often make a point of giving a big thumbs up to people who overtake considerately with loads of room, in the hope that not only will they get a warm glow and be more likely to keep that up, but following drivers will think "I want one too"
I know it's a bit of a shame that what ought to be normal considerate driving is so unusual as to elicit ostentatious gestures of gratitude, but there we are.
I know it's a bit of a shame that what ought to be normal considerate driving is so unusual as to elicit ostentatious gestures of gratitude, but there we are.
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