Discussion
DeuxCentCinq said:
Max_Torque said:
Hate to say this, but if you're coming off the pedals at swinley, then it's poor technique rather than poor pedals / shoes.
Go see Tony here:
UkBikeSkills
and learn to ride like a god! ;-)
Those plastic things bikes come with, the tiniest amount of moisture and even a riding god such as yourself would be slipping off on the tamest of courses... Go see Tony here:
UkBikeSkills
and learn to ride like a god! ;-)
Time after time i see people "leaning back" as they are afraid of being "thrown over the bars" and time after time you see those same people with their arms "locked" and so as soon as the front of the bike enters a dip/drop/hole, their body weight is pulled forwards and, yup, over the bars. Staying more neutral, but low, with bent arms, and actively pushing the bike forward and down into obstacles, although seeming contradictory, means your bodies mass is not yanked forwards or backwards, and you just "flow" down the trails. One of Tony's exercises uses a sharp steep drop, which is rollable by staying neutral but being "active", but if you try to hang your ass off the back it all gets a bit too exciting rather quickly! That is the benefit of proper coaching, in a controlled environment. By being shown the techniques, and then being able to practice them under safe tuition, your confidence is ramped up massively, and you can immediately feel the improvements.
This is especially true for riders like me, who are not "born" riders, but must learn how to ride properly ;-)
;-)
These have done me proud for 18 month:
http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=84&a...
The gold stays gold, £34.00 - great price and importantly the bearings are great and they stay stuck to these extremely well too:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-am41-flat-sole-mou...
http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=84&a...
The gold stays gold, £34.00 - great price and importantly the bearings are great and they stay stuck to these extremely well too:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-am41-flat-sole-mou...
t to a blanket!Max_Torque said:
Hate to say this, but if you're coming off the pedals at swinley, then it's poor technique rather than poor pedals / shoes.
Go see Tony here:
UkBikeSkills
and learn to ride like a god! ;-)
This ^. Coaching with Tony is THE best money you can spend on MTB - turned me from an utter muppet to a half decent rider.Go see Tony here:
UkBikeSkills
and learn to ride like a god! ;-)
But shoes and pedals are important. When you have the right ones it should be reasonably difficult to reposition your foot on the pedal. I have Nukeproof pedals and Teva Link shoes and both are excellent.
i have V12s on two of my bikes and saints on the other one.
Saints look very snazzy and have good grip, but have a fairly small platform area. The V12s are low profile, large platform and all around awesome pedals if you get the new shape ones. the old shape ones are good too but very dated by now
as for shoes it is true that you should never underestimate the importance of decent riding shoes. i use fiveten freeriders and they are every bit as good as people say, though other makes of shoe are available and also good if you don't want to cough up the admittedly high price for the fivetens
Saints look very snazzy and have good grip, but have a fairly small platform area. The V12s are low profile, large platform and all around awesome pedals if you get the new shape ones. the old shape ones are good too but very dated by now
as for shoes it is true that you should never underestimate the importance of decent riding shoes. i use fiveten freeriders and they are every bit as good as people say, though other makes of shoe are available and also good if you don't want to cough up the admittedly high price for the fivetens
I'd completely sold on the placcy Nukes, used them for two years now, (not full time as i alternate with SPD's depending on what i'm riding) but i've used them with 5.10s for two summers in the alps no problems.
They really help being low profile on modern slack/low full sussers, especially when the bike is set up for the "steeps" with a bit more sag and a lower BB than i'd normally run in the UK.
They've shrugged off the worst the Alps can throw at them, and survived my crappy rough landings hucking off stuff so far.
;-)
They really help being low profile on modern slack/low full sussers, especially when the bike is set up for the "steeps" with a bit more sag and a lower BB than i'd normally run in the UK.
They've shrugged off the worst the Alps can throw at them, and survived my crappy rough landings hucking off stuff so far.
;-)
A good set of pedals will last years. Had Easton flat boys for 10 years.
I don't think you can go wrong with v8''s or 12's though if you're just finding your feet. And I think welgo make the dmr pedals and are a lot cheaper if you want to save money
Don't go down the spd route until you're riding confidently and your technique and skill is good.
I don't think you can go wrong with v8''s or 12's though if you're just finding your feet. And I think welgo make the dmr pedals and are a lot cheaper if you want to save money
Don't go down the spd route until you're riding confidently and your technique and skill is good.
To join the debate, I'll say I spent years (6 years) riding my MTB with regular trainers or military issue desert boots on my feet, and just the (cheap, nasty) pedals it had fitted from the factory. I even raced all three rounds of the Merida Brass Monkeys Winter Enduro series this year, using the same rig...
...photographed here on the bin it's about to go into
I never had too much of an issue with slipping off, despite the inherent smoothness of the metal cage, and the comparatively tiny platform area, but foot pain/discomfort was an issue, especially recently, when I started to stretch rides out for 2 to 3 hours. The BIGGEST issue of all was getting cold, wet feet, though, hence why I recently swapped over to these...
...which I've used with, being totally honest, mixed results. They are a more secure bond with the bike, and allow for more efficient pedalling, especially on hills. The downside? Twice, on a visit to Swinley with a small group of fellow PHers, I went down unintentionally. This was due to "chain suck" and the jamming up of the chainset under load, causing a sudden halt. A few rides later, I destroyed the rear mech and snapped the mech hanger as a result. That's got nothing to do with the new shoes though, I just mention it because with flat pedals you're so much less likely to hit the deck at comedy slow speeds. Having said all that, I'm not likely to consider ditching the SPDs any time soon. I'd consider a decent set of flats as an alternative to the SPDs for some rides, but I wouldn't go back to them 'full time'.
...photographed here on the bin it's about to go into
I never had too much of an issue with slipping off, despite the inherent smoothness of the metal cage, and the comparatively tiny platform area, but foot pain/discomfort was an issue, especially recently, when I started to stretch rides out for 2 to 3 hours. The BIGGEST issue of all was getting cold, wet feet, though, hence why I recently swapped over to these...
...which I've used with, being totally honest, mixed results. They are a more secure bond with the bike, and allow for more efficient pedalling, especially on hills. The downside? Twice, on a visit to Swinley with a small group of fellow PHers, I went down unintentionally. This was due to "chain suck" and the jamming up of the chainset under load, causing a sudden halt. A few rides later, I destroyed the rear mech and snapped the mech hanger as a result. That's got nothing to do with the new shoes though, I just mention it because with flat pedals you're so much less likely to hit the deck at comedy slow speeds. Having said all that, I'm not likely to consider ditching the SPDs any time soon. I'd consider a decent set of flats as an alternative to the SPDs for some rides, but I wouldn't go back to them 'full time'.
SPDs all the way for me - means I can use the same shoes (MTB race jobbies), for both road and trail. I've never had any problem with unclipping too late - if you wind the tension right down it doesn't take much of a flick of the heel to get them out, and even when I crash I seemingly manage to come free of them every time. I think they're a brilliant design tbh and a good example of the Japanese attitude of 'if it works, keep using it' - I'm pretty sure they haven't changed the cleats since they first came out, and they don't need to. The cycling equivalent of the Casio F91W watch - dirt cheap and last forever.
SPD's always raise much debate, 100% you climb better with them, they are absolutely more efficient, they can also make you commit so go faster down hill. They will however at some point result in you hitting the deck when you otherwise wouldn't.
I have in years passed raced downhill with SPDs, could happily tackle for example Aston Hill black run with SPDs in the wet, so I'd say quite a proficient user. In recent years I've gone to SPDs only on my road bike (mountain bike ones to annoy the purists ;-) ) and on my XC bike. My trail bike and down hill bike are on flats. I used to think along the lines that clipped in required 100% commitment and that means hitting everything very fast, therefore racing it was the way. Now I'm older and more fragile I'm willing to dab a foot for the sake of giving up half a second. Looking back the really painful SPD induced crashes were always very low speed technical climbing - slip off a rock for example where a fast dab would save the situation would result in throwing my chest into the end of the bar. Broke a heart rate monitor that way. So for me if its technical riding its flats, normal regular bridle ways paths etc SPDs.
Something you should be aware of is SPDs can make for some very poor habits that will ruin technical riding. The simple bunny hop for example you should be able to hop a bike with flats and I've seen people basically forget how after riding with SPDs becoming reliant on pulling up on the pedals, not good.
Equipment, I have DMR V8's that just last forever and some welgo that have a super thin but wide platform - I prefer the DMRs. I use Northwave shoes and just don't cut out the SPD access bit, they work well.
I have in years passed raced downhill with SPDs, could happily tackle for example Aston Hill black run with SPDs in the wet, so I'd say quite a proficient user. In recent years I've gone to SPDs only on my road bike (mountain bike ones to annoy the purists ;-) ) and on my XC bike. My trail bike and down hill bike are on flats. I used to think along the lines that clipped in required 100% commitment and that means hitting everything very fast, therefore racing it was the way. Now I'm older and more fragile I'm willing to dab a foot for the sake of giving up half a second. Looking back the really painful SPD induced crashes were always very low speed technical climbing - slip off a rock for example where a fast dab would save the situation would result in throwing my chest into the end of the bar. Broke a heart rate monitor that way. So for me if its technical riding its flats, normal regular bridle ways paths etc SPDs.
Something you should be aware of is SPDs can make for some very poor habits that will ruin technical riding. The simple bunny hop for example you should be able to hop a bike with flats and I've seen people basically forget how after riding with SPDs becoming reliant on pulling up on the pedals, not good.
Equipment, I have DMR V8's that just last forever and some welgo that have a super thin but wide platform - I prefer the DMRs. I use Northwave shoes and just don't cut out the SPD access bit, they work well.
horses for courses I suppose, I found those plastic Nukeproof ones utter junk. The axle body of the pedal is taller than the pins, so I got no grip from them at all. I use NC-17 Sudpin 3s with 5.10s, and apart from the odd slip and shin smash over shooting table transitions, they are the perfect combo - pedals are very light, very sturdy, well constructed and reasonable price.
Also as said above, learn bike kung fu with regards weight management on the bike - pumping the trail is what it's all about.
Also as said above, learn bike kung fu with regards weight management on the bike - pumping the trail is what it's all about.
I have Mountain bike Spd pedals on all of my bikes and have no problem with technical ground. I am just conditioned to quickly unclip if necessary.
I do very occasionally fit Wellgo V8 replicas R my Hardtail, just to keep my hand in, as it were. I did one of the German national DH courses on a rented bike on flats, which was good, but would Have preferred spds.
I do very occasionally fit Wellgo V8 replicas R my Hardtail, just to keep my hand in, as it were. I did one of the German national DH courses on a rented bike on flats, which was good, but would Have preferred spds.
MC Bodge said:
I have Mountain bike Spd pedals on all of my bikes and have no problem with technical ground. I am just conditioned to quickly unclip if necessary.
I do very occasionally fit Wellgo V8 replicas R my Hardtail, just to keep my hand in, as it were. I did one of the German national DH courses on a rented bike on flats, which was good, but would Have preferred spds.
The problem with SPDs is not getting out of them, but getting back into them quickly, on tricky terrain. I've had an off before where i was hammering down a muddy steep bank, clipped out for a quick dab, then couldn't clip back in (due in some part to mud in the spd cleat from the dab i think) and couldn't slow down for the next drop and had to launch off it with only one foot on one pedal. Which ended badly....... ;-)I do very occasionally fit Wellgo V8 replicas R my Hardtail, just to keep my hand in, as it were. I did one of the German national DH courses on a rented bike on flats, which was good, but would Have preferred spds.
I have used SPDs on mountain bikes, but when I bought a new full susser just before Christmas, I decided to go back to flats and learn how to ride properly. Where I used to be able to bunny hop, I no longer can, but I intend to persevere!
I've now got Five-Ten Freeriders (a definite trend developing here!) and an old pair of DMR V12s on my hardtail, plus sparkly new Nukeproof Neutrons on my full susser. The shoes are amazing, and whilst both pedals do the job, I do intend to replace the V12s with Neutrons at some point as I prefer the platform shape.
I've now got Five-Ten Freeriders (a definite trend developing here!) and an old pair of DMR V12s on my hardtail, plus sparkly new Nukeproof Neutrons on my full susser. The shoes are amazing, and whilst both pedals do the job, I do intend to replace the V12s with Neutrons at some point as I prefer the platform shape.
Kermit power said:
Where I used to be able to bunny hop, I no longer can, but I intend to persevere!
.
Pull up on bars, throw weight forward, bike will take off. Can manual for a bit then throw weight forward to break it down. Bet you will be doing it fine in no time if you approach it the right way. If you are on a FS can even add some compression immediately before throwing weight forward to get the bike to help you. .
It's basically no different to doing a squat jump except you are holding a bike in your hands.
ukbabz said:
Just a pair of walking shoes.. after a bit of reading I reckon my old DC's might be a bit better with a softer sole rather than hard sole?
As for clipless, somehow I've dodged "the moment" on my roadbike... (I've jinxed that now!)
I.started mountain biking last year and use my DC skate shoes with the standard peddles. Had no issues whatsoever with them, grip really well never even slipped slightly As for clipless, somehow I've dodged "the moment" on my roadbike... (I've jinxed that now!)
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