What does the future hold for bike GPS?
Discussion
I've used all of the Garmin Edge range (having started out using my mobile with Strava) and have to say i'm a big fan.
The OP does however raise an interesting question as the 1st thing I thought when I got hands on with the Edge 1000 was how like a mobile phone it was and wouldn't it be good if I could make calls / texts etc on it.
If Garmin were to give the Edge 1000 mobile phone capabilities that would be an interesting proposition (provided the phone wasn't too compromised).
If phones are to succeed in replacing bespoke cycle GPS units then I think their use as a cycle GPS will need to feature highly as a design consideration - much more so than ATM. I also think a bespoke mounting system is essential as after market phone mounts all seem a bit gash IMO (I would have no issue with a 1/4 turn mount on the back of a Garmin Edge Mobile).
For me, the fly in the ointment for your particular setup (which I accept works for you) would be the inability to have turn by turn navigation on my bars without a clunky mount.
I don't think the cycle GPS is in danger anytime soon and it certainly doesn't appear to be dissuading any of the new entrants into the market.
The OP does however raise an interesting question as the 1st thing I thought when I got hands on with the Edge 1000 was how like a mobile phone it was and wouldn't it be good if I could make calls / texts etc on it.
If Garmin were to give the Edge 1000 mobile phone capabilities that would be an interesting proposition (provided the phone wasn't too compromised).
If phones are to succeed in replacing bespoke cycle GPS units then I think their use as a cycle GPS will need to feature highly as a design consideration - much more so than ATM. I also think a bespoke mounting system is essential as after market phone mounts all seem a bit gash IMO (I would have no issue with a 1/4 turn mount on the back of a Garmin Edge Mobile).
For me, the fly in the ointment for your particular setup (which I accept works for you) would be the inability to have turn by turn navigation on my bars without a clunky mount.
I don't think the cycle GPS is in danger anytime soon and it certainly doesn't appear to be dissuading any of the new entrants into the market.
Edited by Pot Odds on Wednesday 15th April 22:43
Pot Odds said:
I've used all of the Garmin Edge range (having started out using my mobile with Strava) and have to say i'm a big fan.
The OP does however raise an interesting question as the 1st thing I thought when I got hands on with the Edge 1000 was how like a mobile phone it was and wouldn't it be good if I could make calls / texts etc on it.
If Garmin were to give the Edge 1000 mobile phone capabilities that would be an interesting proposition (provided the phone wasn't too compromised).
If phones are to succeed in replacing bespoke cycle GPS units then I think their use as a cycle GPS will need to feature highly as a design consideration - much more so than ATM. I also think a bespoke mounting system is essential as after market phone mounts all seem a bit gash IMO (I would have no issue with a 1/4 turn mount on the back of a Garmin Edge Mobile).
For me, the fly in the ointment for your particular setup (which I accept works for you) would be the inability to have turn by turn navigation on my bars without a clunky mount.
I don't think the cycle GPS is in danger anytime soon and it certainly doesn't appear to be dissuading any of the new entrants into the market.
You make a fair point about turn by turn navigation, although I never much liked it on the 800, despite shelling out for the OS maps of the UK, (anyone want to buy the whole UK in 1:25000 on a micro SD card? The OP does however raise an interesting question as the 1st thing I thought when I got hands on with the Edge 1000 was how like a mobile phone it was and wouldn't it be good if I could make calls / texts etc on it.
If Garmin were to give the Edge 1000 mobile phone capabilities that would be an interesting proposition (provided the phone wasn't too compromised).
If phones are to succeed in replacing bespoke cycle GPS units then I think their use as a cycle GPS will need to feature highly as a design consideration - much more so than ATM. I also think a bespoke mounting system is essential as after market phone mounts all seem a bit gash IMO (I would have no issue with a 1/4 turn mount on the back of a Garmin Edge Mobile).
For me, the fly in the ointment for your particular setup (which I accept works for you) would be the inability to have turn by turn navigation on my bars without a clunky mount.
I don't think the cycle GPS is in danger anytime soon and it certainly doesn't appear to be dissuading any of the new entrants into the market.
Edited by Pot Odds on Wednesday 15th April 22:43
) as I found the screen too small to really make much use of when off road. It was OK on road though.My plan for the new setup is to try downloading a GPX file of Pitch Hill and Winterfold (an area of the Surrey Hills I don't know at all well) and then using bluetooth headphones to try riding the trails with turn by turn voice navigation, as I was never keen on the idea of trying to look down at the Edge when it beeped at me whilst I'm riding off road anyway!
I've got a Garmin 910 and an 800 and they're both excellent.
The 800 can leak if you don't close the cover, it's a poor design with a sim card in. Each to their own but id much rather use a robust garmin device than a smartphone with all their screen and case fragility and battery issues. like many people, I use free openstreetmaps on my sim card. Easy to download for anywhere in the world and have a massive memory and turn by turn navigation if needed.
The 800 can leak if you don't close the cover, it's a poor design with a sim card in. Each to their own but id much rather use a robust garmin device than a smartphone with all their screen and case fragility and battery issues. like many people, I use free openstreetmaps on my sim card. Easy to download for anywhere in the world and have a massive memory and turn by turn navigation if needed.
bakerstreet said:
The phone battery maybe good now, but we all know that smart phone batteries deteriorate with use, so it will reach a point when it will drain the battery in 2 hours flat.
I'm sure it will, but the last phone I had with this sort of battery life, even when new, didn't even have a camera or internet access! I took it off charge at 06:30 this morning, and nearly 17 hours of moderate use later, I've still got 59% battery life.
When it eventually does start to shorten, I've got a tiny little external battery pack which will give it a complete extra charge...
The problem with phones is the big bright screen sucking away the battery if you want it on all the time. None of the little paired headunits I've seen have a solution for showing directions if you're following a route, which is how I use my Garmin a lot of the time. They're probably fine if you're just wanting numbers as you plod around the same old training route but the best thing about GPS devices for me is plotting out an interesting route on new roads then riding it without getting lost.
In fairness, in all my banging on about how I'm perfectly happy with my bargain Bryton, I've only been concerned with track logging, and the display/logging of speed, cadence and HR. I've not considered navigation. If that's what you want from a bike GPS then my cheap Bryton solution won't do it.
I've never used one of the big, expensive Garmins so have no opinion on how the moving map experience compares to running a moving map program on a smart phone, but concede that if you have the phone already, and it has an amazing battery that can display a map for 8 hours whilst keeping the GPS, Bluetooth and phone radios active, and you can mount it as neatly as a Garmin then why not. But I only use mapping when riding somewhere new, the rest of the time I just log and display the values mentioned earlier, so I still favour my small, dedicated, cheapo Bryton for that.
I've never used one of the big, expensive Garmins so have no opinion on how the moving map experience compares to running a moving map program on a smart phone, but concede that if you have the phone already, and it has an amazing battery that can display a map for 8 hours whilst keeping the GPS, Bluetooth and phone radios active, and you can mount it as neatly as a Garmin then why not. But I only use mapping when riding somewhere new, the rest of the time I just log and display the values mentioned earlier, so I still favour my small, dedicated, cheapo Bryton for that.
sjg said:
The problem with phones is the big bright screen sucking away the battery if you want it on all the time. None of the little paired headunits I've seen have a solution for showing directions if you're following a route, which is how I use my Garmin a lot of the time. They're probably fine if you're just wanting numbers as you plod around the same old training route but the best thing about GPS devices for me is plotting out an interesting route on new roads then riding it without getting lost.
I'd agree, but I rarely used my Garmin for navigating off road, as it was always pretty rubbish at identifying the right place to turn down a trail! Fine on roads, but poor away from them.Even on roads, however, I only ever used the on screen navigation because it didn't have voice navigation. I'm interested to see how that works out with the phone and Bluetooth headphones.
Kermit power said:
You got a good deal then! The cheapest I can find those anywhere now is £80+.
Just looked up the invoice in case I had misremembered. It cost EUR60 + EUR6 shipping from Bike24 in November last year. = GBP47 at today's rate. And it came with HRM strap and cadence sensor included.If one doesn't need navigation, it's got to be a better way to go than spending the same on a Cateye remote disply and having to use a smart phone on top.
Edit - Just had a look and they no longer stock the package including the sensors, but they do have the unit itself for EUR45 (=GBP32). Cheap ANT+ sensors can be bought from Decathlon or elsewhere, and presumably you needed to buy sensors for your smart phone solution as well.
Edited by SixPotBelly on Thursday 16th April 00:21
It sounds like your phone is well cut out for it but I like android and my phones gps is better than an iphone but not as good as my garmin with speeds varying wildly on the phone and the battery is s
t with the gps on. Sounds like you have a good solution if you want a windows phone but I don't particularly I stick to what I know and it's nice that I never have to worry about my garmin being charged or it running out of charge as it lasts forever I just get on the bike turn it on and go. With my phone I couldn't do that, I'll be upgrading to a 910xt soon though to save me keep counting and loosing count of lengths when swimming that alone is worth the £300 for me.
t with the gps on. Sounds like you have a good solution if you want a windows phone but I don't particularly I stick to what I know and it's nice that I never have to worry about my garmin being charged or it running out of charge as it lasts forever I just get on the bike turn it on and go. With my phone I couldn't do that, I'll be upgrading to a 910xt soon though to save me keep counting and loosing count of lengths when swimming that alone is worth the £300 for me.snowdude2910 said:
It sounds like your phone is well cut out for it but I like android and my phones gps is better than an iphone but not as good as my garmin with speeds varying wildly on the phone and the battery is st with the gps on. Sounds like you have a good solution if you want a windows phone but I don't particularly I stick to what I know and it's nice that I never have to worry about my garmin being charged or it running out of charge as it lasts forever I just get on the bike turn it on and go. With my phone I couldn't do that, I'll be upgrading to a 910xt soon though to save me keep counting and loosing count of lengths when swimming that alone is worth the £300 for me.
t with the gps on. Sounds like you have a good solution if you want a windows phone but I don't particularly I stick to what I know and it's nice that I never have to worry about my garmin being charged or it running out of charge as it lasts forever I just get on the bike turn it on and go. With my phone I couldn't do that, I'll be upgrading to a 910xt soon though to save me keep counting and loosing count of lengths when swimming that alone is worth the £300 for me.
My phone is Android???Kermit power said:
I'd agree, but I rarely used my Garmin for navigating off road, as it was always pretty rubbish at identifying the right place to turn down a trail! Fine on roads, but poor away from them.
I think this is a key point.For someone like yourself, who wants to use GPS to log rides, a phone in your pocket and a little head-unit displaying basic data is probably the way things will continue to go.
For others, myself included, who want to use GPS to provide course navigation, and view 'advanced' metrics on the go, a dedicated GPS head unit, Garmin or otherwise, is still the best option and will be for some time.
SixPotBelly said:
Just looked up the invoice in case I had misremembered. It cost EUR60 + EUR6 shipping from Bike24 in November last year. = GBP47 at today's rate. And it came with HRM strap and cadence sensor included.
If one doesn't need navigation, it's got to be a better way to go than spending the same on a Cateye remote disply and having to use a smart phone on top.
Edit - Just had a look and they no longer stock the package including the sensors, but they do have the unit itself for EUR45 (=GBP32). Cheap ANT+ sensors can be bought from Decathlon or elsewhere, and presumably you needed to buy sensors for your smart phone solution as well.
The sensors are neither here nor there, since as you say both solutions need them, although at that price, it would've been cheaper to buy the Bryton then throw it away than it would've been to buy separate HRM and Cadence sensor!!If one doesn't need navigation, it's got to be a better way to go than spending the same on a Cateye remote disply and having to use a smart phone on top.
Edit - Just had a look and they no longer stock the package including the sensors, but they do have the unit itself for EUR45 (=GBP32). Cheap ANT+ sensors can be bought from Decathlon or elsewhere, and presumably you needed to buy sensors for your smart phone solution as well.
As to not needing navigation, it's nice to know I've got it if I ever do need it, and I'd always take my phone with me - two big offs over the years are enough to ensure that, although sod's law says if I did it again I'd be out of mobile coverage! - so it's not like I'm having to carry anything extra. In fact, when I'm mountain biking, I can carry less, because I have no need for the stats on the bars, but still want to record my ride.
You don't have nav in front of you, your phone doesn't supply metrics in front of you and so you've bought an additional device to supply half of that.
You're just comparing apples with oranges. It's analogous to saying that a TomTom and an iphone will make built in Satnav and entertainment systems redundant - yes they are a reasonable alternative but they're heavily compromised. Like your new solution
You're just comparing apples with oranges. It's analogous to saying that a TomTom and an iphone will make built in Satnav and entertainment systems redundant - yes they are a reasonable alternative but they're heavily compromised. Like your new solution
toohangry said:
You're just comparing apples with oranges. It's analogous to saying that a TomTom and an iphone will make built in Satnav and entertainment systems redundant - yes they are a reasonable alternative but they're heavily compromised. Like your new solution
Yes, I agree with this.I have two smartphones (work and personal), but use my Garmin on my bike and wouldn't change that. Same goes for built in nav in the car - I would rather deal with the odd road that has changed (since the maps were installed a few years ago) than forego the operating convenience of the built-in system. Same goes for music on the hard drive in the car...again I prefer the integration rather than plugging in either of my phones.
toohangry said:
You don't have nav in front of you, your phone doesn't supply metrics in front of you and so you've bought an additional device to supply half of that.
You're just comparing apples with oranges. It's analogous to saying that a TomTom and an iphone will make built in Satnav and entertainment systems redundant - yes they are a reasonable alternative but they're heavily compromised. Like your new solution
I have both nav and metrics in front of me if I want them. I don't particularly want the nav in front of me. What I also have, though, which I didn't have with the Garmin, is the option of having the nav in my ear which, particularly for mountain biking when I'm concentrating on looking as far down the trail as I can, has to be the better option.You're just comparing apples with oranges. It's analogous to saying that a TomTom and an iphone will make built in Satnav and entertainment systems redundant - yes they are a reasonable alternative but they're heavily compromised. Like your new solution
I'm not particularly bothered about having the data in front of me when I'm riding either. I only ordered the Cateye out of interest to see how it works as a result of this thread. I shall let you know...
So is the summary that:
OP makes a purchasing decision to suit him, asks "why does everyone else not do that?"
Several other PHers say "it doesn't suit me, so i did different"
OP responds with "you're doing it wrong". ?
Glad you're happy with your purchases OP, but this is getting into the realms of apple threads where people say an ipads can't replace their business laptop for excel etc
OP makes a purchasing decision to suit him, asks "why does everyone else not do that?"
Several other PHers say "it doesn't suit me, so i did different"
OP responds with "you're doing it wrong". ?
Glad you're happy with your purchases OP, but this is getting into the realms of apple threads where people say an ipads can't replace their business laptop for excel etc
I use my Iphone and strava for rides, I fought it at first, but I now find it great at analysing rides, I love the challenge of Segments when I am in the mood and tracking distance. I also love sharing rides with mates.
I have a 5s now, actually preferred my 4, as it was worth less and I had loads of "battery cases" so I could log 150+ mile rides. The 5s is good, but I'm scared stless of damaging it as they are pricey and I need it everyday.
I would prefer using a Garmin/Byton, but I don't for two main reasons:
1: I'm tight, spent too much recently on bikes ! 3 kids and just me working are bankrupting me!
2: I'm too bad at fiddling with stuff and distractions, I don't have a computer on the handlebars, as I know I would fiddle and get distracted, esp in club runs. So if I did get one I would probably keep it in my pocket, hence what is the point!
I can see the benefits of dedicated GPS over smart phone including, better battery life, more accurate, I don't fancy getting my phone wet/damaged!
I would also love GPS route directions, as I have map reading and would love to plan out a route in advance and be told where to go
I think I will get one when I have a quiet month money wise, otherwise I keep on aping!
I have a 5s now, actually preferred my 4, as it was worth less and I had loads of "battery cases" so I could log 150+ mile rides. The 5s is good, but I'm scared s
tless of damaging it as they are pricey and I need it everyday.I would prefer using a Garmin/Byton, but I don't for two main reasons:
1: I'm tight, spent too much recently on bikes ! 3 kids and just me working are bankrupting me!
2: I'm too bad at fiddling with stuff and distractions, I don't have a computer on the handlebars, as I know I would fiddle and get distracted, esp in club runs. So if I did get one I would probably keep it in my pocket, hence what is the point!
I can see the benefits of dedicated GPS over smart phone including, better battery life, more accurate, I don't fancy getting my phone wet/damaged!
I would also love GPS route directions, as I have map reading and would love to plan out a route in advance and be told where to go
I think I will get one when I have a quiet month money wise, otherwise I keep on aping!
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