Switching from Compact to Standard
Discussion
okgo said:
What I was getting at is that 39 on the front and a long way down the block at the back is just silly. When you can have a straight chai line using the Bigger ring.
Its not great in theory , but its works in practice for me. Plus there are lots of bumps here and short sharp hills around me, I can drop down a few gears and up the cadence to spin up them quickly. Everyone else I ride with on the bigger ring gets left behind or is labouring away.
I only really started riding like this to force me to up my cadence, as otherwise I will naturally labour away.
Plus my commuter now only has a 39 ring with a 12-25 cassette as well so I'm just used to those ratios
[EFA - okgo beat me to it, perhaps more succinctly]
Really don't get why folks seem to regard staying in one (either) ring as a badge of honour - it's just another way of changing the gearing, and there's substantial overlap between big ring, big sprocket and small ring, small sprocket. It is also the work of seconds to decide that upcoming hill will probably need the small ring and drop there before you get to it..
Here's some science if you can be bothered to read
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/frictio...
As for the compact/std debate; sure if you're strong enough, ride std. Whatever, gear for the worst case climbs. In terms of overall ride time, you loose very little freewheeling because you're spun out at 45mph, and a lot if you have to stand all the way up that 20 minute climb, or worse still have to get off and walk..
Really don't get why folks seem to regard staying in one (either) ring as a badge of honour - it's just another way of changing the gearing, and there's substantial overlap between big ring, big sprocket and small ring, small sprocket. It is also the work of seconds to decide that upcoming hill will probably need the small ring and drop there before you get to it..
Here's some science if you can be bothered to read
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/frictio...
As for the compact/std debate; sure if you're strong enough, ride std. Whatever, gear for the worst case climbs. In terms of overall ride time, you loose very little freewheeling because you're spun out at 45mph, and a lot if you have to stand all the way up that 20 minute climb, or worse still have to get off and walk..
Edited by upsidedownmark on Wednesday 22 April 10:07
TwistingMyMelon said:
Its not great in theory , but its works in practice for me.
Plus there are lots of bumps here and short sharp hills around me, I can drop down a few gears and up the cadence to spin up them quickly. Everyone else I ride with on the bigger ring gets left behind or is labouring away.
I only really started riding like this to force me to up my cadence, as otherwise I will naturally labour away.
Plus my commuter now only has a 39 ring with a 12-25 cassette as well so I'm just used to those ratios
You should ride the cadence that allows you to comfortably produce the most power for long periods of time. Plus there are lots of bumps here and short sharp hills around me, I can drop down a few gears and up the cadence to spin up them quickly. Everyone else I ride with on the bigger ring gets left behind or is labouring away.
I only really started riding like this to force me to up my cadence, as otherwise I will naturally labour away.
Plus my commuter now only has a 39 ring with a 12-25 cassette as well so I'm just used to those ratios
The reason they get left behind up the climbs is absolutely nothing to do with what chainring they're in. They are just less fit/powerful than you.
Just think some clarity on these threads is useful. The fitter you are the bigger the gear you can turn over at a comfortable rate. Buy the gearing that suits your fitness (and terrain to an extent), if you're strong then 55/42 will likely suit you just as well as someone who is not on a compact.
TwistingMyMelon said:
once did 180 mile ride @ 17mph av on my own and never left the small ring !
I've found exactly the same on long rides - using just the small ring helps you moderate your effort better. Turn a 39-12 over at 90 rpm and you're doing about 23mph. Very little point pedalling to go faster than that downhill as you get rapidly diminishing returns for the effort you put in; you're better off taking the rest and saving your effort for the flat/climbs. Racing's a different thing, obviously.It doesn't make any odds whether you're in the big or small ring. 39-11 not only is massively cross chaining but it also has the same gear inch as a perfectly straight line in the middle of the block using the big ring. So I am afraid that is just not logical.
As for not going above 23mph downhill, well, I don't know. 23mph on the flat is pretty trivial if the wind isn't blowing in your face, I've never seen someone start freewheeling when they hit 23mph. Ever.
As for not going above 23mph downhill, well, I don't know. 23mph on the flat is pretty trivial if the wind isn't blowing in your face, I've never seen someone start freewheeling when they hit 23mph. Ever.
I'm sticking to my 50/34 x 11-28 compact Ultegra for now, thanks all the same.
I was quite taken with the idea of the 52/36 semi (or 'pro') compact when I was buying my bike, but when I worked out the gain ratios involved, I realised that I would only really "gain" higher gears that I seldom use, and, for the same cassette range, lose some of the lower gears that I'm always in need of when the reality of a climb kicks in.
There's often a presumption that 53/39 is a 'faster' package, but again, when I boiled down the figures, my traditional steel framed bike was running a 53 x 13 as it's highest gear, which I was surprised to discover was actually lower than the 50 x 11 on my new bike. The 34 x 28 lowest gear is also far more 'knee-friendly' and easier to turn over on a steep climb than the 39 x 25 on the old bike.
I really don't get why you would struggle on up a climb in a higher gear than absolutely necessary. If I'm struggling, or I know that I will struggle, then I reach for a lower gear. If this means climbing at the very bottom of the range, then so be it. There's rarely anyone about to witness any "heroic struggle" with the big ring, and even if there were, they probably wouldn't give a stuff about what gear I'm climbing in anyway. There's absolutely no benefit (to me personally) to be had in making climbing any harder than it already is.
I'm not saying that anyone else is right or wrong, but before you consider putting "manly big gears" onto a bike, ask yourself, as others have already suggested, whether you truly want or need what they'll add, and more importantly, whether you can afford to lose what they'll take away.
I was quite taken with the idea of the 52/36 semi (or 'pro') compact when I was buying my bike, but when I worked out the gain ratios involved, I realised that I would only really "gain" higher gears that I seldom use, and, for the same cassette range, lose some of the lower gears that I'm always in need of when the reality of a climb kicks in.
There's often a presumption that 53/39 is a 'faster' package, but again, when I boiled down the figures, my traditional steel framed bike was running a 53 x 13 as it's highest gear, which I was surprised to discover was actually lower than the 50 x 11 on my new bike. The 34 x 28 lowest gear is also far more 'knee-friendly' and easier to turn over on a steep climb than the 39 x 25 on the old bike.
I really don't get why you would struggle on up a climb in a higher gear than absolutely necessary. If I'm struggling, or I know that I will struggle, then I reach for a lower gear. If this means climbing at the very bottom of the range, then so be it. There's rarely anyone about to witness any "heroic struggle" with the big ring, and even if there were, they probably wouldn't give a stuff about what gear I'm climbing in anyway. There's absolutely no benefit (to me personally) to be had in making climbing any harder than it already is.
I'm not saying that anyone else is right or wrong, but before you consider putting "manly big gears" onto a bike, ask yourself, as others have already suggested, whether you truly want or need what they'll add, and more importantly, whether you can afford to lose what they'll take away.
Bang on yellowjack. Having to stand and spike your power output will cost far more time and pain over the entirety of your ride than 'spinning out' at 40 odd mph. While Roger Irrelevant is trying to prove another point at a crazily low speed, there is truth in the assertion that you ought to put in less effort at the higher end of your speed range.
50/34 with 11/28 or 11-30 makes such a massive amount of sense for the recreational rider, particular with the newer 11-speed drivetrains.
With an 8-speed cassette the ration jumps may upset some (not me) but you'll still have enough low range to get up anything when tired, and enough top not to spin out in a tailwind.
With an 8-speed cassette the ration jumps may upset some (not me) but you'll still have enough low range to get up anything when tired, and enough top not to spin out in a tailwind.
Makes me laugh 53/39, 12-23/25 is now considered 'big geared' just because pros started using compacts on mountain stages. When I bought my first racer that was all that was on offer and probably considered small gearing!
Saying that I did struggle up a quite long steep hill on 39/23 recently (I was ashamed)
Saying that I did struggle up a quite long steep hill on 39/23 recently (I was ashamed)
I've got to say, while talking gears, that the shift on my new 11 speed Ultegra is really annoying.
Seriously, it's so damned silky-smooth that I sometimes need to look down to see it move to believe that it has actually shifted to the new gear. And this is "straight out of the box", too! I never achieved that level of smoothness in four years of adjusting and tweaking my old 10 speed Ultegra, despite lavishing top quality cables on it. Maybe it's just that the gaps between gears are smaller on the new kit, so I notice them less? I bloomin'-well love it!
Seriously, it's so damned silky-smooth that I sometimes need to look down to see it move to believe that it has actually shifted to the new gear. And this is "straight out of the box", too! I never achieved that level of smoothness in four years of adjusting and tweaking my old 10 speed Ultegra, despite lavishing top quality cables on it. Maybe it's just that the gaps between gears are smaller on the new kit, so I notice them less? I bloomin'-well love it!
yellowjack said:
I've got to say, while talking gears, that the shift on my new 11 speed Ultegra is really annoying.
Seriously, it's so damned silky-smooth that I sometimes need to look down to see it move to believe that it has actually shifted to the new gear. And this is "straight out of the box", too! I never achieved that level of smoothness in four years of adjusting and tweaking my old 10 speed Ultegra, despite lavishing top quality cables on it. Maybe it's just that the gaps between gears are smaller on the new kit, so I notice them less? I bloomin'-well love it!
I think the shift ratio is different on the 11 speed shimano which means the lever needs less movement to shift. Seriously, it's so damned silky-smooth that I sometimes need to look down to see it move to believe that it has actually shifted to the new gear. And this is "straight out of the box", too! I never achieved that level of smoothness in four years of adjusting and tweaking my old 10 speed Ultegra, despite lavishing top quality cables on it. Maybe it's just that the gaps between gears are smaller on the new kit, so I notice them less? I bloomin'-well love it!
Just to update the opening post,
Made the swtich to 53x39 and I'm really liking it. Climbing may have taken a bit of a hit but not much slower and I find myself switching between the big & small ring more often, where as before I would climb near everything in the big ring on the compact. However on the flats & downhill I feel a bit faster (new best average speed over my 45mile training route on Sunday) and more in control of my cadence. Strangely I'm also finding it easier to control my heart rate as well.
One of the main reasons I made the change was during my club race I felt like I was spinning out and no gears left to sprint
Made the swtich to 53x39 and I'm really liking it. Climbing may have taken a bit of a hit but not much slower and I find myself switching between the big & small ring more often, where as before I would climb near everything in the big ring on the compact. However on the flats & downhill I feel a bit faster (new best average speed over my 45mile training route on Sunday) and more in control of my cadence. Strangely I'm also finding it easier to control my heart rate as well.
One of the main reasons I made the change was during my club race I felt like I was spinning out and no gears left to sprint
madzo14 said:
Just to update the opening post,
Made the swtich to 53x39 and I'm really liking it. Climbing may have taken a bit of a hit but not much slower and I find myself switching between the big & small ring more often, where as before I would climb near everything in the big ring on the compact. However on the flats & downhill I feel a bit faster (new best average speed over my 45mile training route on Sunday) and more in control of my cadence. Strangely I'm also finding it easier to control my heart rate as well.
One of the main reasons I made the change was during my club race I felt like I was spinning out and no gears left to sprint
The fans of compacts point out its better to spin out downhill but be able to climb seated, which is probably true if you are a beginner, but once you have got your fitness up, it is quite easy to find yourself on a slight downhill or with a following wind and you've no gears left.Made the swtich to 53x39 and I'm really liking it. Climbing may have taken a bit of a hit but not much slower and I find myself switching between the big & small ring more often, where as before I would climb near everything in the big ring on the compact. However on the flats & downhill I feel a bit faster (new best average speed over my 45mile training route on Sunday) and more in control of my cadence. Strangely I'm also finding it easier to control my heart rate as well.
One of the main reasons I made the change was during my club race I felt like I was spinning out and no gears left to sprint
My point was I prefer a standard because I think I get the benefit more of the time; even if the difference is minimal there is still a difference.
Using this site - http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed
At 50 mph with a 50/11 you are doing 140 rpm and with a 53/11 it would be 133 rpm.
Using this site - http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed
At 50 mph with a 50/11 you are doing 140 rpm and with a 53/11 it would be 133 rpm.
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