Improving hill climbing
Discussion
I can make it up most hills on my road bike quite well. I do wish to improve though.
My lungs go before my legs so what training on a turbo would help improve this aspect?
If I go out and do some short hill repeats adding weight in the form of say 5 or 10 kg plate in a bag, would this give any real benefits for when im actually out for a cycle?
Also, any endurance training tips for on a turbo?
Cheers
David
My lungs go before my legs so what training on a turbo would help improve this aspect?
If I go out and do some short hill repeats adding weight in the form of say 5 or 10 kg plate in a bag, would this give any real benefits for when im actually out for a cycle?
Also, any endurance training tips for on a turbo?
Cheers
David
Sounds like fitness rather than hill climbing (please don't take that comment offensively!)...
IMHO (and others will be along shortly to disagree);
Interval training is good for improving your overall fitness and ability to produce more power over shorter distances, which should translate into the ability to climb for longer without your lungs poking out the corner of your mouth by mid-climb (depending on the length and % of the climb). But intervals alone won't do you any favors - a balanced training plan which incorporates endurance training, intervals, and recovery is your best bet for an all round balanced improvement.
BC have plenty of easy to follow plans on their web-site, pick the one that it right for you and make a deal with yourself to follow it! (there are no short-cuts);
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/phys...
I can't afford a power-meter so train on a mix of cadence/heart-rate as you need to be able to 'see' your effort while training. It is easy to sit on a turbo and 'feel' as if you are working hard, the best way to 'see' if you are working hard is your heart rate! I have been following a structured training plan since the start of the year, making sure I push myself when I should, and recover when I should (keeping your HR down can be significantly more difficult than raising it!). The results have been great so far, I have been climbing father and faster than before, am able to hold my HR down on longer endurance ride while pushing my average speed up - my sprinting still sucks but you can't have everything eh?
If you feel that is really is just hill climbing technique then there is quite a lot of resources, hints'n'tips here; https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/tech...
As for strapping additional weight to yourself, there is no evidence that it has any true benefit to your training, in actual fact you are more likely to risk injury. Climbing on the big ring will improve power, climbing on the parking ring should improve endurance! On my hill-rep sessions (depending on the size/% of the hill) I alternate between a hard effort on the big ring, then a sprint effort on the parking ring. Also alternate between standing and seating climbing.
Ultimately if you want to get better at climbing, find a challenging hill you hate - and climb it, lots......
IMHO (and others will be along shortly to disagree);
Interval training is good for improving your overall fitness and ability to produce more power over shorter distances, which should translate into the ability to climb for longer without your lungs poking out the corner of your mouth by mid-climb (depending on the length and % of the climb). But intervals alone won't do you any favors - a balanced training plan which incorporates endurance training, intervals, and recovery is your best bet for an all round balanced improvement.
BC have plenty of easy to follow plans on their web-site, pick the one that it right for you and make a deal with yourself to follow it! (there are no short-cuts);
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/phys...
I can't afford a power-meter so train on a mix of cadence/heart-rate as you need to be able to 'see' your effort while training. It is easy to sit on a turbo and 'feel' as if you are working hard, the best way to 'see' if you are working hard is your heart rate! I have been following a structured training plan since the start of the year, making sure I push myself when I should, and recover when I should (keeping your HR down can be significantly more difficult than raising it!). The results have been great so far, I have been climbing father and faster than before, am able to hold my HR down on longer endurance ride while pushing my average speed up - my sprinting still sucks but you can't have everything eh?
If you feel that is really is just hill climbing technique then there is quite a lot of resources, hints'n'tips here; https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/tech...
As for strapping additional weight to yourself, there is no evidence that it has any true benefit to your training, in actual fact you are more likely to risk injury. Climbing on the big ring will improve power, climbing on the parking ring should improve endurance! On my hill-rep sessions (depending on the size/% of the hill) I alternate between a hard effort on the big ring, then a sprint effort on the parking ring. Also alternate between standing and seating climbing.
Ultimately if you want to get better at climbing, find a challenging hill you hate - and climb it, lots......
Forget the cadence, as you've already worked out, your legs are there, but your lungs cannot power you, it will not make any difference whether your ride up there at your max at 90 or 60 rpm. But I'll bet a lot of money you'll get nowhere near the best out of your body riding at 60 rpm, it's not efficient
Just ride as hard as you can on the turbo for 4-5 minutes, have 5 mins rest, do it again, repeat 5 times. That is a classic vo2 workout and will likely help you most. The reason most people never get any good at cycling is because that session hurts and by 3 mins you'll want to stop, but if you can stick it you'll see big gains, for new cyclists there is a huge amount of fitness to be had really quickly by training at vo2 max. Assuming you're also not able to ride 15 hours a week you'll also get good bang for your buck with a shorter intense session.
Just ride as hard as you can on the turbo for 4-5 minutes, have 5 mins rest, do it again, repeat 5 times. That is a classic vo2 workout and will likely help you most. The reason most people never get any good at cycling is because that session hurts and by 3 mins you'll want to stop, but if you can stick it you'll see big gains, for new cyclists there is a huge amount of fitness to be had really quickly by training at vo2 max. Assuming you're also not able to ride 15 hours a week you'll also get good bang for your buck with a shorter intense session.
I think a lot depends on length of the hill and how you feel psychologically. On the first PH ride we had this massive hill on the route where the road just stretched up and into the distance. The scenery was barren, there was little on the roadside to pick as interim progression points and I just crumbled weaving from side to side. On other rides where there are hairpins, corners or even just trees or signposts on the way up, you can use to tick off on the way up and it makes for little victories. You climb better without even realising it. Even better if you spot someone else up ahead and can hunt them down. People who struggle with hills often lose their concentration, start reaching for bottles, weave around etc and you can get a real psychological boost from passing them.
If you know its a short sharp climb, I would attack it and approach it with as much speed as you can carry, if its a longer climb, prepare yourself mentally and do what the others have suggested ref cadence etc.
If you know its a short sharp climb, I would attack it and approach it with as much speed as you can carry, if its a longer climb, prepare yourself mentally and do what the others have suggested ref cadence etc.
pablo said:
...People who struggle with hills often lose their concentration, start reaching for bottles, weave around etc and you can get a real psychological boost from passing them.
If you know its a short sharp climb, I would attack it and approach it with as much speed as you can carry, if its a longer climb, prepare yourself mentally and do what the others have suggested ref cadence etc.
I struggle with climbing. Concentration is my (biggest) issue, definitely. By the time I've realised that my cadence has dropped off the bottom of the graph, I'm usually also dribbling a lot and talking to myself (or my legs). By then the damage is done, and accelerating to a decent pace to finish the climb is "too hard, and hurts too much" so I just settle in, seated, low gear, low cadence, and just grind it out to the top. I have the same concentration/application issue when trying to ride fast on the flats, though, as I often sit up to look around and enjoy the countryside, before realising that my speed has fallen away, and getting back to a 'decent' pace costs a lot of energy and hurts/costs me later in the ride.If you know its a short sharp climb, I would attack it and approach it with as much speed as you can carry, if its a longer climb, prepare yourself mentally and do what the others have suggested ref cadence etc.
Late 2013, early 2014, I did quite a few deliberately hilly routes, and did feel some improvements, but an enforced break from Feb to Jun 2014 meant I lost all those gains, and slid back. I just about feel able to say that I'm getting back to where I was, and putting in PRs regularly on segments locally, and I reckon those gains would come faster if I worked more specifically to a training programme, but I'd rather simply 'ride my bike', and enjoy it. So I have had to accept a slower rate of improvement as a trade-off against not going into "hurt mode" when 'training'. Hills are hard. If they weren't, then the grand tours wouldn't hand out spotty jerseys for the fastest ferrets up them.
I think a lot of cyclists assume one of two things though, the first being that they cant climb (when in reality they are no worse than the vast majority who regularly ride undulating terrain) and thus they immediately default to the granny ring and stay seated and feel rubbish at the top. The second being that hills are hard (which Cat 2/1/HC are but the majority of UK climbs just arent) and even a regular rider thinks they will struggle, thus reaffirming in their mind, the first point. So when they reach a hill, they have already conceded to their fears and think the worse.
To add to the good suggestions above:
Do some hilly mountain biking. Single speed even better.
Practice spinning on the road at high cadence.
Do the Intervals HARD. Some people need encouragement to push themselves.
Add some extra cross-training -swimming, running, XC skiing etc. for more aerobic training.
I've benefited a lot from yoga (I can now get low on the drops) and doing core and glutes strength work in the gym.
Lose weight if you are carrying a bit extra.
I live and ride in a mostly flat area, but my climbing has improved with my improvement in fitness.
Use the big ring for normal riding.
If you have a triple, don't use the smallest ring unless you really, really need to.
ps. Some people appear to have a natural aptitude for biking, running or swimming etc. through biomechanics, upbringing, muscle type etc.
You ( well, I) will always need to work harder than these people to reach the same standard!
Do some hilly mountain biking. Single speed even better.
Practice spinning on the road at high cadence.
Do the Intervals HARD. Some people need encouragement to push themselves.
Add some extra cross-training -swimming, running, XC skiing etc. for more aerobic training.
I've benefited a lot from yoga (I can now get low on the drops) and doing core and glutes strength work in the gym.
Lose weight if you are carrying a bit extra.
I live and ride in a mostly flat area, but my climbing has improved with my improvement in fitness.
Use the big ring for normal riding.
If you have a triple, don't use the smallest ring unless you really, really need to.
ps. Some people appear to have a natural aptitude for biking, running or swimming etc. through biomechanics, upbringing, muscle type etc.
You ( well, I) will always need to work harder than these people to reach the same standard!
Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 26th April 21:11
I suffered from a collapsed lung, once at 16 and once at 20ish. I am 29 now.
I had an operation to fix the lung to the chest cavity which will prevent further collapse.
To be honest I never really thought about that! Bugger.
I don't feel in pain as such just on short sharp climbs I am out of breath at the top but longer climbs are no bother at all.
I had an operation to fix the lung to the chest cavity which will prevent further collapse.
To be honest I never really thought about that! Bugger.
I don't feel in pain as such just on short sharp climbs I am out of breath at the top but longer climbs are no bother at all.
General Madness said:
I suffered from a collapsed lung, once at 16 and once at 20ish. I am 29 now.
I had an operation to fix the lung to the chest cavity which will prevent further collapse.
To be honest I never really thought about that! Bugger.
I don't feel in pain as such just on short sharp climbs I am out of breath at the top but longer climbs are no bother at all.
Well, that puts a different perspective on it...I had an operation to fix the lung to the chest cavity which will prevent further collapse.
To be honest I never really thought about that! Bugger.
I don't feel in pain as such just on short sharp climbs I am out of breath at the top but longer climbs are no bother at all.
I'm signed up for an Everesting in a few weeks which will involve something like 70 repeats of the same climb. It's 6% and about a mile and a half, so not the steepest or longest. Mike Cotty of the Col Collective suggested do intervals to try and mimic that day so I have been doing intervals of 10 on and 3 off. I feel it has made a huge difference to my ability, and I am getting a big kick out of being able to give it my all whenever I want. I just need to be able to do it all day long now!
I've always worked on he theory that if your lungs go before your legs, then you need to use a harder gear.
I'm backwards though. I always lose leg before lung. This is despite having what appears to be Beyonce's arse and thighs, and being able to squat the stack at my local gym. Apparently, strong legs aren't necessarily good cycling legs!
I'm backwards though. I always lose leg before lung. This is despite having what appears to be Beyonce's arse and thighs, and being able to squat the stack at my local gym. Apparently, strong legs aren't necessarily good cycling legs!
pablo said:
I think a lot depends on length of the hill and how you feel psychologically. On the first PH ride we had this massive hill on the route where the road just stretched up and into the distance. The scenery was barren, there was little on the roadside to pick as interim progression points and I just crumbled weaving from side to side.
I need to go back to that hill.My hill climbing has come on by having a lumpy commute, using a pretty heavy old mountain bike for it most of the time and doing it every day. I think it helps that I chase anyone and everything I see ahead on the hills too. It have my colleague, a great runner and definite skinny bean a bit of a surprise the other week. Me too if I'm honest.
I think you get better at his by riding up then aggressively.
I also find weighted rides extremely beneficial. All year round I commute with rucksack into and out of town one way around 30 miles on my winter road bike with laden rucksack. When I get on my carbon bike with no rucksack as I have done for the first time this month I fly and it makes the previous months grind well worth it.
Some Gump said:
I've always worked on he theory that if your lungs go before your legs, then you need to use a harder gear.
I'm backwards though. I always lose leg before lung. This is despite having what appears to be Beyonce's arse and thighs, and being able to squat the stack at my local gym. Apparently, strong legs aren't necessarily good cycling legs!
"Strength" x "speed", and you need endurance. I'm backwards though. I always lose leg before lung. This is despite having what appears to be Beyonce's arse and thighs, and being able to squat the stack at my local gym. Apparently, strong legs aren't necessarily good cycling legs!
Practice spinning at higher cadence.
I have heavy legs, with longer calves and shorter thighs. I suspect this doesn't aid efficient cycling. I should try shorter cranks.
Ps maybe having a women's derrière, assuming you are a man, isn't helping you?
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 28th April 09:08
Just ride more hills is the best starting point, don't over think it, JUST DO IT
Good points above in the thread as well.
I'm asthmatic and ive won hill climbs, in fact hills are my strongest point (im not great on long flat bits)
Some great inhalers available now that keep it right in check
I used to push a big gear up hills, labouring away, blaming my asthma, now I realise my my cardio system wasn't as fit and strong as my legs. Now im spinning away like a hamster!
Good points above in the thread as well.
I'm asthmatic and ive won hill climbs, in fact hills are my strongest point (im not great on long flat bits)
Some great inhalers available now that keep it right in check
I used to push a big gear up hills, labouring away, blaming my asthma, now I realise my my cardio system wasn't as fit and strong as my legs. Now im spinning away like a hamster!
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