The Time Trial Thread

[okgo]

Got an event tomorrow on a course I know well, field doesn't look super strong, I'm debating doing it on the road bike with aero wheels to see how the power compares. Be interesting to see, and I might still win I was thinking...!

[Matt_N]

He was on a bike made from bits of an old washing machine now you mention it

Was a chap called Rob Pears, quite well known locally apparently.

[Ponk]

okgo said:

Got an event tomorrow on a course I know well, field doesn't look super strong, I'm debating doing it on the road bike with aero wheels to see how the power compares. Be interesting to see, and I might still win I was thinking...!

Try it! 400w 10?

[okgo]

Matt_N said:

He was on a bike made from bits of an old washing machine now you mention it

Was a chap called Rob Pears, quite well known locally apparently.

Rob is pretty fast indeed. Considering he is 50, too!!

[okgo]

Ponk said:

Try it! 400w 10?

Quite possibly but it's quite up and down. Not ideally suited to best output. See how I feel In the morning.

[yellowjack]

I feel like a bit of a fraud posting in this thread, as it wasn't a proper event, but I had a crack at a '10' last night.

First time in about 4 years that I've (knowingly) done a TT course of any description, so be gentle with me!

It was HCC216, one of the Farnborough & Camberley Cycling Club regular courses. Obviously not 'organised event' conditions and no standing start, but I rode it only to find out where I stood fitness-wise, and to set a bit of a benchmark to see if I can find any improvements over the coming months. I may even be tempted to enter a couple of 'proper' TTs before the season is out...

Anyway, 33:59 was my time (on the 9.9 mile Strava segment for the course https://www.strava.com/segments/1693312 ). Sub 23:37 would be needed for a top ten (set by a good club Trialist on a Trek Speed Concept 9), the KOM recorded 21:42.

All entirely 'normal' bike and kit, no extensions or pointy hats, and a fairly loose fitting jersey. It's quite a lumpy course, or at least I thought so, and too many times I allowed myself to get bogged down on the uphill bits. With a bit more discipline to keep working when the going gets tough, and better gear selection to allow snappier acceleration on the downhill bits, well I know I should be able ride it faster than that. 17.6mph average speed for ten miles was pretty good going for me, though. I normally struggle to maintain anything above 15mph on an average ride, and I didn't go "all out" on the course as I was going to ride straight through the finish line without a rest, and tag on another ten or so miles home to finish the ride off, which I did, and at a pretty similar pace to the TT course to be fair... https://www.strava.com/activities/319059390/

Any comments, or, more especially, advice on how to go faster without buying any fancy new aero kit, would be most welcome.

Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 6th June 12:23

[SixPotBelly]

yellowjack said:

Any comments, or, more especially, advice on how to go faster without buying any fancy new aero kit, would be most welcome.

I'm not saying I'm in any way an expert, as you know I'm not, but the thing that strikes me on your Strava is the inconsistency of your heart rate. You and I are unlikely to ever buy power meters unless their prices fall off a cliff, so heart rate is the best indication of effort we have.

Compare yours:



To mine from last month when I rode a local club 10:

|http://thumbsnap.com/DOjxyhrC[/url]

I approached it my TT the same way I do a 5K running race, they being of almost the same duration. I know through experiment my max heart rate, and I know through further experiment what percentage of that I can (just) sustain for the required duration (approx 95%). I give myself a +/-5 bpm band around that percentage, set my computer to show HR, and I ride/run to stay within it. If it goes up too high I back the pace off just a tad, too low and I pick it up a touch. As I get close to the line I start ramping it up until I'm about 20 seconds out when I go 100%. My aim being to finish with absolutely nothing left.

Heart rate lags behind changes in effort, so be aware of that. And you'll have to accept it will go up in the climbs, but I think it could be one way of increasing your performance at your current levels of fitness/strength without spending on equipment.

Be interesting to hear if the experienced testers on here agree.

[yellowjack]

Cheers for that. I haven't really looked at anyone else's HR data to compare mine to, and it's quite an obvious difference. So basically, then, I'm just a lazy so-and-so, hiding in too low a HR zone for too much of the route? It figures, I suppose, as I do get 'bogged down' when the gradient increases, and do take my time about getting up to pace again down the other side.

Although I have had a Garmin for 18 months or more, I've never really paid too much attention during a ride to the figures it's showing, other than my Av Sp and trying to stay above it. I don't even now what my Max HR or any of the other 'baseline' figures are, so I suppose I'd better do some research if I want to get faster. But to put it at it's most basic, I just need to raise my heart rate quickly, and keep it higher (and more consistent) for the duration of the TT effort.

I've got a couple of bike-free days coming up (my brother's wedding) so I hope to come back rested from that and have a crack at some climbing-focussed rides next week. Hopefully I can throw in a few shorter loops that I can use to experiment with HR as well.

Cheers, SPB!

[SixPotBelly]

I wouldn't say lazy, just erratic. It's as if you give it the berries for a few seconds, then coast for a few secsonds, then berries again, then coast, etc. Your 30 minute sustainable level may well be somewhere in between these two extremes. At the moment you might be overdoing it, recovering, overdoing it, recovering.

[yellowjack]

Well, I tried to concentrate less on 'speed' and more on HR and cadence. Trying to smooth out the HR graph...

https://www.strava.com/activities/319870039/analys...

...I didn't go any faster than last night, a gnat's knacker slower if anything, but I think the line is less erratic than it was. C255A was the course, an 8.5 miler. Terrible road surface, and quite 'lumpy' again. Very nearly dead last this time, so I'm going to have to have another crack at it. I think I may need to tweak the display options on my Garmin to show HR data more clearly on every screen it cycles through, as that should help me to nail down this consistency. When that's under control I can work on my cadence, and increasing the HR level, to see if I can eke out some extra speed.

[okgo]

Sadly I could not keep my string of 19's going, was a bit windy on the lumpy G10/42 course yesterday, I did do it on the TT bike in the end. Think Im going much better than last year as I'd not have been able to get close to 20 in that wind last year.

If I had done my best power which was yesterday to date, on the day I did my best time I'd have gone pretty quickly I think!

https://www.strava.com/activities/319608412

[upsidedownmark]

yellowjack said:

Well, I tried to concentrate less on 'speed' and more on HR and cadence. Trying to smooth out the HR graph...

https://www.strava.com/activities/319870039/analys...

...I didn't go any faster than last night, a gnat's knacker slower if anything, but I think the line is less erratic than it was. C255A was the course, an 8.5 miler. Terrible road surface, and quite 'lumpy' again. Very nearly dead last this time, so I'm going to have to have another crack at it. I think I may need to tweak the display options on my Garmin to show HR data more clearly on every screen it cycles through, as that should help me to nail down this consistency. When that's under control I can work on my cadence, and increasing the HR level, to see if I can eke out some extra speed.

I'm far from a great time trialist, so take this with a pinch of salt, but being brutal I'd suggest if you have that much variation then you're not going hard enough, and you're probably being a bit lazy/late with gear changes.

HR is a bit of a slow reactor - with the luxury of power I see as much as a 3 minute lag in HR response, I'm listening to my legs more than anything; more about how much it hurts rather than whether (if you see what I mean). You'll struggle to nail down a particular HR number; I have a general idea what my 'flat out' rate is and keep an eye early on for going OTT.

Might be worth doing an absolutely kamikaze run. Accept you'll fade, stay at it and use it to establish a baseline for just how much you can hurt yourself / average heart rate (have a little break before, and a 10 min sit down after)

For my part I find the cadence and effort achieveable come down into a very narrow band quite quickly - -5rpm and my legs start to die, +5 and I just can't spin it/keep any power on, the gears are changing all the time to keep me in that band.

[Steve vRS]

I'll be doing my third ever TT on Wednesday. It will be a repeat of the course I did my first on a few weeks ago. Feed here ==> https://www.strava.com/activities/308400388

That ride was done with a strong (15mph ish) wind blowing west to east, so half of the ride was head wind, the other half tail wind. Hopefully Wednesday will be a bit stiller so hoping to beat my time.

I may or may not go and look at the nice TT bike in the local bike shop as well.....

Without spending £1500 on a bike, what can I do to improve? I've bought a nice tight jersey - my Club colours to replace my PH top

I'm planning on some hill intervals this afternoon but that will be my last ride till the event. Not that one training ride will make much difference of course!

Steve

[S10GTA]

Steve vRS said:

I'll be doing my third ever TT on Wednesday. It will be a repeat of the course I did my first on a few weeks ago. Feed here ==> https://www.strava.com/activities/308400388

That ride was done with a strong (15mph ish) wind blowing west to east, so half of the ride was head wind, the other half tail wind. Hopefully Wednesday will be a bit stiller so hoping to beat my time.

I may or may not go and look at the nice TT bike in the local bike shop as well.....

Without spending £1500 on a bike, what can I do to improve? I've bought a nice tight jersey - my Club colours to replace my PH top

I'm planning on some hill intervals this afternoon but that will be my last ride till the event. Not that one training ride will make much difference of course!

Steve

Not much except ride more. You could adjust your profile a bit to make you more aero but that's about it.

[Steve vRS]

S10GTA said:

Not much except ride more. You could adjust your profile a bit to make you more aero but that's about it.

Cheers, I can't physically do any more hours on a bike. I may need to ride smarter though, something I've been trying to do this year....

My saddle is right back and set at the right height for my pedal stroke (bike fit a couple of years ago) and my bars as low as they will go. The geometry on my Defy 1 is not very aggressive.

I'm half serious about buying a TT bike but I fancy a new road bike as well. My Defy has served me well from a beginner but now I feel I've earnt a new ride. Decisions, decisions....

Steve

[S10GTA]

Steve vRS said:

Cheers, I can't physically do any more hours on a bike. I may need to ride smarter though, something I've been trying to do this year....

My saddle is right back and set at the right height for my pedal stroke (bike fit a couple of years ago) and my bars as low as they will go. The geometry on my Defy 1 is not very aggressive.

I'm half serious about buying a TT bike but I fancy a new road bike as well. My Defy has served me well from a beginner but now I feel I've earnt a new ride. Decisions, decisions....

Steve

If you can only have one TT vs Road bike then get the road bike everytime would be my advise.

[Steve vRS]

Quite right, my next road bike will be a nice aero one. This one is pressing a lot of buttons at the moment.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/pr...

No idea if it will fit me yet though! Also, I can't afford it

Steve

[upsidedownmark]

If you can only have one - yes.

If you can only have one MORE, get the TT bike..

[SoliD]

25 mile TT on the A3 yesterday morning (P881/25), and hit one of my aims for the year of breaking the hour mark, completed in 59:18, so very happy, but had huge pain in my hip flexors after, think my saddle is slightly too high after changing it.

https://www.strava.com/activities/320045593

So dropped down a few mm, and ready to go again as I've got another 25 this Sunday, hopefully be able to go even quicker, club aiming for a new 3 man record on the day, as we've got a few of our faster guys out who can run a 54ish time, so with my sub hour, should see us bettering the record!

[okgo]

SoliD said:

25 mile TT on the A3 yesterday morning (P881/25), and hit one of my aims for the year of breaking the hour mark, completed in 59:18, so very happy, but had huge pain in my hip flexors after, think my saddle is slightly too high after changing it.

https://www.strava.com/activities/320045593

So dropped down a few mm, and ready to go again as I've got another 25 this Sunday, hopefully be able to go even quicker, club aiming for a new 3 man record on the day, as we've got a few of our faster guys out who can run a 54ish time, so with my sub hour, should see us bettering the record!

Good work, are you doing the P885/25 even this Sunday then? I am too.

Also doing the F11/10 course on the Saturday and will be hoping to try and better my 18.46 PB, but will depend on conditions as ever