Helmets Work!!!!!
Discussion
Rob_T said:
In all the many threads there have been on this subject I am yet to hear from a cyclist who wasn't wearing a helmet, crashed, banged his head on the pavement/curb/road and then posted how glad they were that they weren't wearing a helmet.
Strange that. Just a casual observation.
Strange that. Just a casual observation.
I wasn't wearing a helmet, crashed, banged my head and was glad I wasn't wearing a helmet. But only because I knocked myself out and then didn't have a clue what was going on so couldn't feel the real injuries.
Don't really want to put a full photo of my face as it's the internets but you get the impression:
But I always wear a helmet now. I didn't ever think about falling off previous to me falling off. Didn't even consider it.
Zigster said:
Okay - I'll bite.
Anecdote is not data, blah, blah, blah. If it makes you feel better, wear a helmet - I tend to when I'm out on a long ride but not when I'm cycling to/from the station, although I accept there are inconsistencies in that approach (I class the helmet as sports kit in the same way as my lycra shorts). But if you claim that a helmet saved your life, you're speculating at best. Cycling isn't that dangerous to start with - no more so than walking.
Various studies have shown that cycling helmets make no noticeable reduction to head injuries. This can be seen from places like Australia which introduced mandatory helmets yet saw no reduction in the rate of head injuries (although they did see a reduction in the number of journeys undertaken by bike - and Australia is now challenging the US for fattest nation on the earth but who knows if that is correlated). Similarly, helmet wearing has become much more common in the UK over the last few decades yet rates of head injuries have not fallen.
And in the safest cycling nation on the earth (the Netherlands), helmets are seen as a bizarre affectation from the English speaking countries and are almost never seen.
Lots of (admittedly not unbiased) analysis here. http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
Just as controversially, skiing helmets also seem to provide little benefit.
Forget mandatory wearing of helmets, that's a separate debate.Anecdote is not data, blah, blah, blah. If it makes you feel better, wear a helmet - I tend to when I'm out on a long ride but not when I'm cycling to/from the station, although I accept there are inconsistencies in that approach (I class the helmet as sports kit in the same way as my lycra shorts). But if you claim that a helmet saved your life, you're speculating at best. Cycling isn't that dangerous to start with - no more so than walking.
Various studies have shown that cycling helmets make no noticeable reduction to head injuries. This can be seen from places like Australia which introduced mandatory helmets yet saw no reduction in the rate of head injuries (although they did see a reduction in the number of journeys undertaken by bike - and Australia is now challenging the US for fattest nation on the earth but who knows if that is correlated). Similarly, helmet wearing has become much more common in the UK over the last few decades yet rates of head injuries have not fallen.
And in the safest cycling nation on the earth (the Netherlands), helmets are seen as a bizarre affectation from the English speaking countries and are almost never seen.
Lots of (admittedly not unbiased) analysis here. http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
Just as controversially, skiing helmets also seem to provide little benefit.
But are you genuinely saying you believe that the piece of plastic-covered polystyrene on your head can have no possible benefit in a crash? None whatsoever? Zero?
Because if you think that there is only a tiny improvement in safety, surely it's worth wearing on the basis that there's no downside. If bicycle helmets weighed 3 kilograms I could understand why people favoured not wearing them. But they don't - they weight virtually nothing.
oyster said:
Because if you think that there is only a tiny improvement in safety, surely it's worth wearing on the basis that there's no downside. If bicycle helmets weighed 3 kilograms I could understand why people favoured not wearing them. But they don't - they weight virtually nothing.
Do you wear a spine protector every ride too? If not, why not?(Oh god, I'm being dragged in to this again...)
Mr Will said:
oyster said:
Because if you think that there is only a tiny improvement in safety, surely it's worth wearing on the basis that there's no downside. If bicycle helmets weighed 3 kilograms I could understand why people favoured not wearing them. But they don't - they weight virtually nothing.
Do you wear a spine protector every ride too? If not, why not?(Oh god, I'm being dragged in to this again...)
ETA - Guy Martin agrees and he races at the IOM TT which is far more dangerous than wobbling Round Richmond Park for an espresso, so I'm going to go ahead and trust his evidence.
Edited by Disastrous on Tuesday 2nd June 10:18
Disastrous said:
To be honest, I think it's pure madness to cycle above 25mph in anything but full motorcycle leathers.
ETA - Guy Martin agrees and he races at the IOM TT which is far more dangerous than wobbling Round Richmond Park for an espresso, so I'm going to go ahead and trust his evidence.
Err, he only agrees when trying to break the speed record. He done many MTB races in just a helmet.ETA - Guy Martin agrees and he races at the IOM TT which is far more dangerous than wobbling Round Richmond Park for an espresso, so I'm going to go ahead and trust his evidence.
Edited by Disastrous on Tuesday 2nd June 10:18
WestyCarl said:
Disastrous said:
To be honest, I think it's pure madness to cycle above 25mph in anything but full motorcycle leathers.
ETA - Guy Martin agrees and he races at the IOM TT which is far more dangerous than wobbling Round Richmond Park for an espresso, so I'm going to go ahead and trust his evidence.
Err, he only agrees when trying to break the speed record. He done many MTB races in just a helmet.ETA - Guy Martin agrees and he races at the IOM TT which is far more dangerous than wobbling Round Richmond Park for an espresso, so I'm going to go ahead and trust his evidence.
Edited by Disastrous on Tuesday 2nd June 10:18
My apologies for posting the OP, didn't realise this was such an emotive subject!
Not advocating the compulsory wearing of helmets or that wearing one will always save your life. Like lots of things in life you make your own decision.
Recovery going well, Hope to be fit for the Tour of Cambridgeshire on Sunday.
Enjoy your cycling, with or without a helmet. (I've got a new one!)
Not advocating the compulsory wearing of helmets or that wearing one will always save your life. Like lots of things in life you make your own decision.
Recovery going well, Hope to be fit for the Tour of Cambridgeshire on Sunday.
Enjoy your cycling, with or without a helmet. (I've got a new one!)
neilbauer said:
Truly shocking. Why the juddering f
k would any competent cyclist ride that far without at least glancing ahead a couple of times? Staring too hard at the tech on his stem, no doubt.Not terribly funny, though. A time trial rider died a few years ago in Dorset after hitting the back of a broken down car. Apparently his helmet didn't work, though?
Rob_T said:
In all the many threads there have been on this subject I am yet to hear from a cyclist who wasn't wearing a helmet, crashed, banged his head on the pavement/curb/road and then posted how glad they were that they weren't wearing a helmet.
Strange that. Just a casual observation.
I take the point about the pavement, etc. Not really the same situation, but many moons ago I was lucky to have not worn a helmet. I crashed my MTB late at night, deep in the woods, after taking a 'short cut' home from work. Upshot was I fractured C6 and C7 vertebrae, my sternum, and was pinned to the floor, barely able to breathe, for more than 45 minutes. So late that no-one was likely to come to my assistance, and in fear of dying from exposure, I managed to drag myself home, draped over the broken and bent bike. The following day (having driven myself to work) I was carted off to A&E by concerned medical staff, where my fractures were diagnosed, and the Consultant asked if I was wearing a helmet. After considering telling a porkie, I 'fessed up and said no. He was quite convinced that wearing a helmet may have caused more significant fractures and possibly spinal injuries too. He felt I was lucky that I hadn't had a lid on. But in virtually the same breathe he said that I ought to consider riding in one in future.Strange that. Just a casual observation.
More recently I was hit on a roundabout by a van whose driver didn't see me. Head/'A' pillar engagement (admittedly at low-ish speed) wasn't pleasant, and had the Air Ambulance stopping by. The damage to my helmet was minimal, but I'm very glad I had a lid on at the time. It may have made little difference in the grand scheme of things, but cuts/bruises to my head, and concussion, were not on the list of injuries I came out of A&E with, and given what else was causing me pain at the time, I'm happy to have done without them
I always wear a lid off road (too many times a helmet has saved me from a poke in the head from a sharp stick), and also when I'm riding a road bike 'for sport'. Whether I 'armour up' when I nip to the local shop, or to take my library books back into town, well that depends on where I'm riding, when, and how likely I am to be tempted into extending the ride into sport/leisure territory.
I'd never presume to know better than someone else, as I make my own decisions based on my own perception of risk. My wife doesn't own a helmet, yet regularly rides to work. My son owns a lid, but won't wear one because "my hair is too long/I don't want to look like a doofus". His riding is also a daily commute (to college). Up until he was 16 I made the decision for him, and forced him to wear a helmet while riding his MTB. Now, he is allowed to decide for himself. Like someone said, though, putting on a helmet is now as natural to me when I ride my bike, as buckling a seatbelt is when I get into a car, because the vast majority of my riding (IMHO) calls for wearing one.
Batfink said:
Theres only so much a helmet can do and only a limited portion of the body it can protect. If he stuck his head through the glass at 40mph he probably had no chance with or without it...
But this is the point that comes up again and again in these threads, and is what causes the entrenched arguing from both sides of the debate. All we can deduce from the OP's photo is that he was involved in an accident, his helmet was damaged, and he's not dead. What we can deduce from time trial riders dying in collisions with stationary traffic is that, despite wearing a helmet, the rider still died. Without exactly replicating either collision, it'll never be possible to definitively state that the wearing, or not, of helmets, in either case, had any direct bearing on the outcome of the collision. Which is why I'm not passing judgement on what the OP claimed (that "Helmets Work!!!!!" ) or on other poster's claims that they make little difference to rates of head injury (serious or otherwise).I choose to wear a helmet to mitigate against minor injuries, mainly in the event of a 'low side' off. I don't want to be sliding down a wet road using the tarmac as a meat grinder when all the scraping can be done by the polystyrene lump I'm wearing (which neither bleeds, nor feels pain). In order to mitigate against more serious injuries, I try to ride with my wits about me, and to use my experience to avoid getting into more serious scrapes, because I sure as s
t don't want to trust my life to a dollop of polystyrene in a plastic shell. yellowjack said:
I always wear a lid off road (too many times a helmet has saved me from a poke in the head from a sharp stick), and also when I'm riding a road bike 'for sport'. Whether I 'armour up' when I nip to the local shop, or to take my library books back into town, well that depends on where I'm riding, when, and how likely I am to be tempted into extending the ride into sport/leisure territory.
This is the correct attitude IMHO. Sport and Transport are very different things with very different risk levels.yellowjack said:
But this is the point that comes up again and again in these threads, and is what causes the entrenched arguing from both sides of the debate. All we can deduce from the OP's photo is that he was involved in an accident, his helmet was damaged, and he's not dead. What we can deduce from time trial riders dying in collisions with stationary traffic is that, despite wearing a helmet, the rider still died. Without exactly replicating either collision, it'll never be possible to definitively state that the wearing, or not, of helmets, in either case, had any direct bearing on the outcome of the collision. Which is why I'm not passing judgement on what the OP claimed (that "Helmets Work!!!!!" ) or on other poster's claims that they make little difference to rates of head injury (serious or otherwise).
I choose to wear a helmet to mitigate against minor injuries, mainly in the event of a 'low side' off. I don't want to be sliding down a wet road using the tarmac as a meat grinder when all the scraping can be done by the polystyrene lump I'm wearing (which neither bleeds, nor feels pain). In order to mitigate against more serious injuries, I try to ride with my wits about me, and to use my experience to avoid getting into more serious scrapes, because I sure as st don't want to trust my life to a dollop of polystyrene in a plastic shell.
Theres no evidence of what injury killed him so theres nothing to prove or disprove any theory whatsoever. Could have been a Martian...any speculation is pointless. My only guess is as a TT racer he was going some. Is hitting a solid stationary object at high speed what a helmet was designed to protect against? I'd say not.. Its just a sad story about someone who died while not looking where they were going.I choose to wear a helmet to mitigate against minor injuries, mainly in the event of a 'low side' off. I don't want to be sliding down a wet road using the tarmac as a meat grinder when all the scraping can be done by the polystyrene lump I'm wearing (which neither bleeds, nor feels pain). In order to mitigate against more serious injuries, I try to ride with my wits about me, and to use my experience to avoid getting into more serious scrapes, because I sure as s
t don't want to trust my life to a dollop of polystyrene in a plastic shell. The other we have a first hand account of an accident where the rider managed to get away with a knockout and concussion despite landing heavily enough on his head to smash his helmet. He believes it was a worthwhile addition to his head and thats all that matters. Is he trying to convince others to wear a helmet or simply happy that its the only part of his body that doesnt hurt right now? I dont think it needs any time wasted analysing what might have been and whether it matches some statistics in Australia.
It doesnt make me feel less safe, nor make me change my mind on my use of helmets, but its certainly stopped me ever attempting to pull arm warmers off when riding..
Mr Will said:
This is the correct attitude IMHO. Sport and Transport are very different things with very different risk levels.
Are you sure? I ride faster on my commute than when I do a sportive, wear the same clothes and use the same bike. On a sportive there can be marshals at risky junctions and signage to warn drivers and you have a greater safety in numbers. Its really not black and white with road cycling as 'sport' is not necessarily 'racing'. I may be an oddity in that I cannot afford two bikes nor live in an inner city environment where a slower and more relaxed cycling ethic can be adopted. I have to use main arterial roads to get to the library or to any shops but a weekend ride will see me avoiding most other road users as I tour the countryside. Edited by Batfink on Tuesday 2nd June 14:45
Edited by Batfink on Tuesday 2nd June 14:49
Rob_T said:
In all the many threads there have been on this subject I am yet to hear from a cyclist who wasn't wearing a helmet, crashed, banged his head on the pavement/curb/road and then posted how glad they were that they weren't wearing a helmet.
Strange that. Just a casual observation.
Quite. Even if the stats say they are next to useless, when it happens to you I bet 100% of people would be glad they had a hat on. I mean even in non-lethal cases, do you want a big of headache or a ruddy huge gash/graze down the side of your head? Strange that. Just a casual observation.
They are only made from Styrofoam, they aren't going to stop your melon splitting if you hit a lorry head on. But they are likely going to stop minor injuries from being worse or needing a trip to A&E for stitches.
Batfink said:
Mr Will said:
This is the correct attitude IMHO. Sport and Transport are very different things with very different risk levels.
Are you sure? I ride faster on my commute than when I do a sportive, wear the same clothes and use the same bike. On a sportive there can be marshals at risky junctions and signage to warn drivers and you have a greater safety in numbers. Its really not black and white with road cycling as 'sport' is not necessarily 'racing'. I may be an oddity in that I cannot afford two bikes nor live in an inner city environment where a slower and more relaxed cycling ethic can be adopted. I have to use main arterial roads to get to the library or to any shops but a weekend ride will see me avoiding most other road users as I tour the countryside. Had my first fall in 5 years this morning, came round a relatively big bend doing 17/18mph and on the apex my front wheel just let go ( not sure if it was mud, diesel but immaterial)
Went down really hard on my right side, my hip looks like an angle grinder has gone over it and my shoulder hurts like a bh. These will be fine in a few days, I was extremely conscious as I went down my head slammed really hard into the road just above the ear.
I got up - without the helmet I know I would have been in a really bad way to the point of not not getting up at all.
Wear a helmet guys, I'm perfectly confident to state for a fact if it didn't save my life this morning it certainly saved me from hospital and serious injury
Went down really hard on my right side, my hip looks like an angle grinder has gone over it and my shoulder hurts like a b
h. These will be fine in a few days, I was extremely conscious as I went down my head slammed really hard into the road just above the ear. I got up - without the helmet I know I would have been in a really bad way to the point of not not getting up at all.
Wear a helmet guys, I'm perfectly confident to state for a fact if it didn't save my life this morning it certainly saved me from hospital and serious injury
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff