Helmets Work!!!!!

[Brother D]

Zigster said:

I thought this one had died a death ...

Hard to follow which bits were which as the quoting got a bit messed up.

But, helmets are an inconvenience. A helmet messes up my hair, makes my head sweaty and itchy, means I have to either carry it around with me at the other end or leave it attached to my bike and hope it's there when I get back. Sure, you might not think these are big deals, but I have to be convinced that the benefit outweighs these inconveniences. And many people will choose not to cycle rather than put up with these inconveniences, probably driving to the shops/station/etc instead.

The overall data doesn't support that helmets make much of a difference - where's the big fall in head injuries since helmets became popular? The problem with relying on anecdotal evidence such as the OP's is that it isn't borne out by the wider data.

But we've all got entrenched positions on this. I remain sceptical until convinced; many will believe regardless.

I'd like to see the data that wearing helmets doesn't make a difference as so oft is quoted. I guess the number of road deaths probably remain broadly the same for cyclist wearing/not wear helmets purely because deaths in cycling usually are down to crush, or high impact injuries which are not really going to be helped by a foam helmet.
However I can't see there being any data on helmets exacerbating injuries? And clearly they do help reduce the instance of concussions/lacerations and the like vs no helmet at all.
I used to only wear helmets when training, and fully understand the issue not wearing them to/from cycling to work due to sweaty head/messed up hair. But now have invested in one of these, as where I live I fully expect to be hit by a driver in the near future (and it solves the hair/sweat issue)...

Appreciate it may be gimicky, but it's potentially better than no helmet at all...

[Hugo a Gogo]

I wonder if there's been much research into what types of bikes are involved in most accidents and/or in which types of accidents?

seems to me that a 'racer' type of bike is inherently more 'unstable' in that the rider is positioned with the head down and forward, it doesn't take much to pitch that head down onto the deck, narrow bars too - less able to swerve quickly?
narrow high pressure tyres, more likely to spill you off as well?

and faster of course

but then big heavy 'boris bikes' and the like, slower to get away from traffic

[timnoyce]

I like to think of a few basic tests when considering the benefit and use of cycle helmets. All of these tests can be performed whilst sat in an arm chair, you just need a friend to perform the 'actions'

Test 1.
Sit still, and get a friend to smack you in the head with a piece of metal bar. Similar to that in size and shape of a lamp post.

Test 2.
Sit still, and get a friend to repeatedly scrape your head with a small piece of ashphalt. The action should be similar to that of grating a piece of cheese.

Test 3.
Sit still, and get a friend to hit you around the top of the head with a tree branch (you know, a really good bit with some nice jaggedy cut off branches)

Test 4... I could go on.

If, given the option, would you rather go bare head or would you rather be wearing a plastic reinforced shock absorbing foam structure on your head when completing these tests?

Tim #helmetwearer

[Hugo a Gogo]

timnoyce said:

I like to think of a few basic tests when considering the benefit and use of cycle helmets. All of these tests can be performed whilst sat in an arm chair, you just need a friend to perform the 'actions'

Test 1.
Sit still, and get a friend to smack you in the head with a piece of metal bar. Similar to that in size and shape of a lamp post.

Test 2.
Sit still, and get a friend to repeatedly scrape your head with a small piece of ashphalt. The action should be similar to that of grating a piece of cheese.

Test 3.
Sit still, and get a friend to hit you around the top of the head with a tree branch (you know, a really good bit with some nice jaggedy cut off branches)

Test 4... I could go on.

If, given the option, would you rather go bare head or would you rather be wearing a plastic reinforced shock absorbing foam structure on your head when completing these tests?

Tim #helmetwearer

do you wear a helmet when running/walking/driving?

[Justin S]

Haters will always hate wearing helmets. I wear a helmet except for cycling to work on cyclepaths (dawdling not going for strava segments), but going for a proper ride, its always there. Risk is all around us and I have used and lost helmets on a few occasions from impacting a tree and head butting the ground on another talent fail moment. Would it have prevented the incident from happening ? totally no . Would it have saved me from worse injuries than I had ? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. Where I impacted the ground, the whole side of the helmet was imbedded in gravel, that wasn't in my face and head.
From seeing and having to deal with my son falling off a football and headbutting the lawn 2 years ago and having a head trauma, massive concussion and still not being 100% well , even after this time, I can honestly say that a head injury is a very unpleasant and can be life changing thing. I know certain people will always pick holes in what I have written and as I stated risk is all around us, from my perspective of dealing with head trauma, it is sensible to wear helmets.

[Hugo a Gogo]

I don't hate helmets, I just don't bother with one. If I was racing down a mountain track, I probably would

you've said the same yourself under certain situations you don't either, and you've the evidence yourself in your son in the danger of head injuries in other situations where you would never dream of wearing a helmet

helmets work, yes

so why don't we all wear them all the time, not just when cycling?

[p1stonhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

I love helmets!

[Hugo a Gogo]

currybum said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

do you wear a helmet when running/walking/driving?

If I could run down a woodland track at 20 mph with my head sticking out in front of me...I probably would.

exactly, so when I'm cycling around town at a lower speed sitting upright on a bike, I don't need one

that's what I thought

[Hugo a Gogo]

like you do when walking across the road

[timnoyce]

Hugo a Gogo said:

do you wear a helmet when running/walking/driving?

I probably should when running to be fair. I was out running last year in the dark with a headtorch on a local Hampshire hill. Tripped, and flung myself down a gully and nearly headbutted a tree.

Walking... probably should when drunk as staying the right way up isn't assured.

Driving normally. No. I am sitting in a big metal box with a seatbelt. Go-karting... yes.

[Hugo a Gogo]

research head injuries in car crashes

I'd bet that far more drivers get head injuries than cyclists over the years

test 1: bang your head as hard as you can off the door frame of your car

etc etc

[Zigster]

oddball1973 said:

Your average doctor or nurse knows no more about head injuries than the average person?


....Speechless to be honest.

That's not what I said. You really are trying hard to misinterpret me to the extent that you'll misquote something written on the same page of this thread. Hard to tell whether you are doing it because you genuinely don't understand or for some other reason.

The point is that your average doctor or nurse has not analysed the statistics around helmet usage. Those medics do know about medical care for people with head injuries; they do not necessarily know about whether or not a cycle helmet was effective in reducing the severity of those head injuries.

[Zigster]

Brother D said:

However I can't see there being any data on helmets exacerbating injuries?

Rotational injuries, apparently. Not claiming to understand this but easy enough to google if you have the time.

[Zigster]

timnoyce said:

I like to think of a few basic tests when considering the benefit and use of cycle helmets. All of these tests can be performed whilst sat in an arm chair, you just need a friend to perform the 'actions'

Test 1.
Sit still, and get a friend to smack you in the head with a piece of metal bar. Similar to that in size and shape of a lamp post.

Test 2.
Sit still, and get a friend to repeatedly scrape your head with a small piece of ashphalt. The action should be similar to that of grating a piece of cheese.

Test 3.
Sit still, and get a friend to hit you around the top of the head with a tree branch (you know, a really good bit with some nice jaggedy cut off branches)

Test 4... I could go on.

If, given the option, would you rather go bare head or would you rather be wearing a plastic reinforced shock absorbing foam structure on your head when completing these tests?

Tim #helmetwearer

Seriously?! Several pages in and someone still thinks that analogy makes any sense?

I'm sat at my desk now, bare-headed and praying that the office psycho doesn't hit me on the head with a tree branch.

[MiseryStreak]

I don't see that there's a problem. They're not mandatory so if you don't want to wear one then don't. I regularly cycle at over 40mph, on and off road, I've hit all manner of things with my head over the years wearing and not wearing a helmet. I've headbutted a car, the road, trees, low branches, rocks, even a seagull. From this experience I have learned that the minor inconvenience, increased drag, reduced ventilation etc. are easily outweighed by the extra confidence I have knowing that I have a fairly effective buffer between my skull and the offending object.

I have been knocked straight off my bike by a low branch wearing a helmet and suffered nothing but a sore butt. Anything that can increase the deceleration time of your brain upon impact is going to be helpful, an inch of expanded polystyrene is significantly more effective than the skull at doing that. With the added bonus that you don't have to tear big chunks out of your scalp or forehead from even a minor scrape.

It's a good point about wearing them as a pedestrian, maybe we should. I'm always hitting my head on things like door frames as I'm 6'7", sometimes I get a welt and a headache for the rest of the day. On the odd occasion that it happens when I'm wearing my helmet I don't even feel it. In fact, fk it, I'm wearing mine the whole time.

[Mr Will]

currybum said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

like you do when walking across the road

If I was planning on walking on the road including roundabouts for my entire trip and not limiting myself using specially designed crossing points....yes I would probably consider a helmet.

Cycling a mile to the shops (on the road) is less dangerous than walking a mile to the shops (using the pavement). If this sort of cycling is dangerous enough to require a helmet, then surely we need pedestrian helmets too?

[Justin S]

Mr Will said:

Cycling a mile to the shops (on the road) is less dangerous than walking a mile to the shops (using the pavement). If this sort of cycling is dangerous enough to require a helmet, then surely we need pedestrian helmets too?

You definitely don't live anywhere near where I do, for the physcotic,texting, eating, smoking, talking and completely disinterested drivers near me , makes you wonder if they actually show any interest in cyclists or other road users.
I have spent many an hour with my friend in Stoke Mandeville Hospital after a bike failure in Brecon Beacons , which rendered him paralysed from the arms down. Was this accident planned or preventable ? Well obviously no for the first bit but the second was a completely unexpected situation. So did that bit of natty polystyrene on his head stop him getting hurt ? Well, yes, in a way. Basically it absorbed the impact of his whole body weight impacting him into solid ground. Yes his back broke, but he wasn't dead and I know he would , without doubt have been under ground now. Its not a situation I would wish on anyone, but without that bit on his head, he wouldn't be here today, albeit in a wheelchair for life. Some situations occur that no one could forsee , so for the sake of a few quid its not a total life saver, but every bit helps. I must admit to seeing more people with helmets these days than not , which is good in most seeing sense. Lets face it, you cant race or do sportives without one.

[Mr Will]

Justin S said:

You definitely don't live anywhere near where I do, for the physcotic,texting, eating, smoking, talking and completely disinterested drivers near me , makes you wonder if they actually show any interest in cyclists or other road users.

I have spent many an hour with my friend in Stoke Mandeville Hospital after a bike failure in Brecon Beacons , which rendered him paralysed from the arms down. Was this accident planned or preventable ? Well obviously no for the first bit but the second was a completely unexpected situation. So did that bit of natty polystyrene on his head stop him getting hurt ? Well, yes, in a way. Basically it absorbed the impact of his whole body weight impacting him into solid ground. Yes his back broke, but he wasn't dead and I know he would , without doubt have been under ground now. Its not a situation I would wish on anyone, but without that bit on his head, he wouldn't be here today, albeit in a wheelchair for life. Some situations occur that no one could forsee , so for the sake of a few quid its not a total life saver, but every bit helps. I must admit to seeing more people with helmets these days than not , which is good in most seeing sense. Lets face it, you cant race or do sportives without one.

Those statistics are based on the national averages. The drivers you mention are just as much of a danger to pedestrians as they are to cyclists.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend, but playing devils advocate here - cycling helmets have been shown to exaggerate the rotational forces that cause spinal injuries. Perhaps he would have been dead without a helmet. Perhaps he would have walked away with nothing but a concussion. The problem with these debates is that there is no way of knowing.

This kind of anecdotal,"evidence" is very emotive, but proves nothing. Every smashed helmet seems to generate an "it saved my/your life" comment. Every fall without one is "you were so lucky". Our heads are vulnerable, but they are not eggshells. Most falls don't result in a significant head-impact and even amongst those that do, the smashed helmet usually saves the wearer from a minor concussion and nothing more.

Are we safer wearing one? Yes, but that applies whether we're cycling, driving, getting in the bath or walking down stairs. Are we safe enough without one when we are cycling? It depends. "Cycling" covers a very broad spectrum of activities with even broader levels of risk.

(Apologies if any of this causes offence, it is not intended. I just have a personal bias in this matter as I cannot wear a helmet for medical reasons. I get very tired of people telling me that I'm crazy to get on a bike without one.)

[Hugo a Gogo]

Justin S said:

Lets face it, you cant race or do sportives without one.

which is fair enough

high risk activities, like hurtling down a track in the Brecon Beacons on a bike, running down a hill, climbing it, whatever

I don't class going to the shops as the same risk

[2volvos]

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/12/bike...

Nicely balanced piece on the topic in the Guardian's Bike Blog section.