6 weeks to prepare for the 2015 Etape du Tour.

[Longers]

PS Let us know what you decide to do and, if you decide to give it a go, how you get on.

[outnumbered]

TheInternet said:

Kawasicki said:

Yes, I have some climbs near me...while steep (I can barely ride a mountain bike up them) they are too short, so I'm going to give the legs two more weeks of mainly flat rides before I start hitting the mountains.

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

I disagree. No amount of making an effort on the flat is really like going up a 20km alpine climb. If you could train for hills on the flat, why do all the top Pros live near mountains ?

[Gruffy]

I have to agree. I'd be finding the longest hill you have that's a slightly steeper gradient than the Glandon, then building up the number repeats you can do, up until the final taper week. This would need to be mixed into a broader training plan but I'd make this the key objective of your weeks. Probably twice a week. Ideally you'd reach the penultimate week and be capable of doing 2/3 of the elevation, hoping to rise to the occasion on the big day.

If you don't have a heart rate monitor then definitely get one and learn how to pace yourself. Figure out what heart rate you can sustain so that you can stay below it on the day. You'll also need to learn your fuelling for a long day in the saddle but the short version is to eat and drink more than you think.

[richardxjr]

Beware the descents too, especially if it's wet. After the glory of grovelling your way up the Glandon, that descent off the CdeFer is, err, mind focussing. It's the one they don't use anymore on the Marmotte.

[Kawasicki]

The comments are spurring me on.

Just drove 900km round trip to pick up my new (to me) bike.

Here it is beside my old '98 Cannondale. Need to adjust the bar to saddle relationship for less drag before first ride.

And I'll be keeping you informed on my progress.......planning to do two hard climbing days per week as advised.

Any thoughts on nutrition for training?

[jamiebae]

Where in Germany do you live? Maybe take a long weekend or two in Southern Germany or Switzerland to get some serious climbing training in (assuming you don't live in Kiel or Hamburg).

Find a brand of gels and drinks you like, and which agrees with you and your digestive system, then stick to it. Eat lots of pasta and generally healthy stuff and lay off the alcohol for a few days before the event.

That Cannondale looks really cool, but I agree the gearing would have made it a real struggle I think!

[Gruffy]

Kawasicki said:

The comments are spurring me on.

Sounds like you have the right mentality for this kind of thing then.

Kawasicki said:

Any thoughts on nutrition for training?

Unless you have a seriously cast iron digestive system you will find there's a limit to how many energy products you can stomach before things start complaining. My approach is to use real food for the first 2/3 of a ride (I like malt loaf and fig rolls) and go to the bars and gels for the final 1/3, when your glycogen stores are fully depleted.

Whatever you do, make sure you try new things in training and not on the day. Try and get at least one long ride in that's of a decent duration so that you can test your fueling out properly. You could also avoid caffeine for the last two weeks so that you get the best effect from it on the day.

Obviously you'll benefit from the usual nutrition advice around training too. Any intense ride over 1.5-2 hours and a recovery shake of some description will be beneficial (liquid carbs and liquid protein - a milkshake is fine - and get it down you within 20 minutes of finishing) and follow it up 2 hours later with a sound meal (quality carbs and lean protein). Hydrate properly. Six weeks off the booze makes a big difference too.

Stretch. You can achieve a decent amount of flexibility in six weeks. That will keep the muscles efficient and help you stay comfortable for longer.

[upsidedownmark]

outnumbered said:

TheInternet said:

Kawasicki said:

Yes, I have some climbs near me...while steep (I can barely ride a mountain bike up them) they are too short, so I'm going to give the legs two more weeks of mainly flat rides before I start hitting the mountains.

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

I disagree. No amount of making an effort on the flat is really like going up a 20km alpine climb. If you could train for hills on the flat, why do all the top Pros live near mountains ?

Mainly for altitude training, and also for very specific training. There are *small* differences about climbing a mountain, like the fact that it will punish 'lumpy' pedaling because it slows down more between power applications than on the flat.

That said, these are small refinements - the OP is aiming to get around, not to beat Froome. All he needs is general fitness. It *is* perfectly possible to train adequately for something like this on flat ground. For the OP's purpose he just needs to spend time on the bike and have the right gearing to be able to spin up seated & not be standing, flat out, or trying to push a gear at low cadence / high force. I would suggest spending (some) training time riding over-geared though - but not too much, don't upset your knees.

[TheInternet]

Kawasicki said:

Need to adjust the bar to saddle relationship for less drag before first ride.

For the event it might be worth setting things up for comfort over aero. Best not to change suddenly on the day though, as has been mentioned.

[Amateurish]

TheInternet said:

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

I totally disagree. The mental and physical effort required in 10+km of consistent steep climbing can't be replicated on the flat. Even hill reps aren't the same since you get the regular breaks between climbs.

[anonymous-user]

In six weeks you can get your core muscles worked on as well, try exercises like the plank and press ups. Simple stuff that doesnt take long but if done well, technique is essential with press ups, you will find that you can hold a better position when climbing seated and not resort to standing and wrench the bike from side to side, wasting energy and inhibiting progress. There is loads of info out there on climbing technique.

They will have a number of feed stops on the route, use them to think of it as several short rides rather than one big long one, psychologically this will help you as you will achieve these milestones and not just be thinking that you have one goal and its 140kms away....

Bananas are brilliant bike food, I buy the kids size ones as they fit well in the pocket, they are real food full of easily digestible carbs and fill your stomach. They are also a useful source of minerals such as zinc, copper and potassium, all useful for athletes, as well as random things like serotonin which is a mood enhancer!

What do you mean you dont like bananas?!....

[Pachydermus]

Amateurish said:

TheInternet said:

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

I totally disagree. The mental and physical effort required in 10+km of consistent steep climbing can't be replicated on the flat. Even hill reps aren't the same since you get the regular breaks between climbs.

I agree with your disagreement. Nothing other than riding up big mountains will properly prepare you for riding up big mountains.
The number one tip, having made the mistake, is don't start off too hard on the climb. Sure, that may work on box hill but once you're at the top of box hill you've still got another 10km to go on a mountain and that's no fun if you're already knackered.


oh and I should add that once you're above the treeline you may well be doing this in 35C heat or a blizzard or both.

Edited by Pachydermus on Friday 5th June 10:46

[TwistingMyMelon]

Blimey I disagree with saying that riding on the flat hard will train you for hills, yes it will help, but you can't replicate straining out the saddle on a 20% hill section on the flat! There is more to hills than fitness, my seating position is completely different and muscles used for starters

[jamiebae]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Blimey I disagree with saying that riding on the flat hard will train you for hills, yes it will help, but you can't replicate straining out the saddle on a 20% hill section on the flat! There is more to hills than fitness, my seating position is completely different and muscles used for starters

Agreed. Even living and riding in the Chilterns didn't prepare me for cycling in Switzerland to any meaningful degree. A few weeks of riding 1,000m of climbing in 30-40km rides made a huge difference though.

[upsidedownmark]

Forget the heroic nonsense about 'straining out of the saddle' At the 'here to complete it', or even most non-professional levels, if you're regularly out of the saddle on an alpine climb you're not going to get around, that simple.

Which is why just about every response says you need the right gearing - that means staying seated at >65-70rpm (ideally more). Sitting down, watts are pretty much watts. You can push hard on the flat, or ride up hills. IMHO unless you have long hills you're better off doing timetrial style efforts on the flat - 60mins @80rpm/200watts90% threshold/target effort for col-de-whatever is far more relevant than 5min of grunting up some ramp in a big gear then freewheeling back down hill repeats. What the OP needs is aerobic endurance, and the smarts to ride well within themselves for the first few climbs. Both of those are a matter of time on the bike.

Edited by upsidedownmark on Friday 5th June 13:52

[nammynake]

Amateurish said:

I totally disagree. The mental and physical effort required in 10+km of consistent steep climbing can't be replicated on the flat. Even hill reps aren't the same since you get the regular breaks between climbs.

No difference whatsoever to the physical and mental effort of a flat time trial. Both involve riding at threshold (or sub-threshold if there are multiple climbs on the route). Unless we're talking super-steep climbs (which do recruit different muscles, including the upper body when out of the saddle) then training on the flat will provide the necessary benefits.

You should look for long uninterrupted roads, which sadly means busy A-roads usually unless you're near the countryside - this will allow you to ride for extended periods without having to stop for roundabouts and lights.

If you have a heart rate monitoring, work out where your threshold HR is (google it) and plan your training rides around that, working slightly below or at threshold depending on the length of the ride/how you're feeling.

[outnumbered]

For someone like the OP who seems like a relative novice, the point of training on a hill is that it will force him to work hard. If he's on the flat, it's unlikely he'll be making enough effort to replicate how hard it'll be when climbing.

I'm a (very!) experienced cyclist, and I can never push myself hard on the flat, so use hills to make sure I don't have a choice but to try a bit.

[PGM]

It's mental too, that side should not be underestimated in training, learning to deal with the sight of what's ahead and how you're going to apply the physical side to it is something that cannot be replicated on the flat. I agree you can get fit enough from training on the flat but that's not the full story.

Get into the hills as much as you can would be my advice.

Bloody good luck to you!

[stripy7]

TheInternet said:

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

Ignore this.

[TheInternet]

stripy7 said:

TheInternet said:

You don't need hills to train for hills IMO. Making an effort on a hill is same as making an effort on the flat. Might also be worth spending time on the bike to get used to being in the saddle for an extended period.

Ignore this.

Seems to be dividing opinion. I'm baffled as to why people think there's a big difference doing 150W @ 90rpm for an hour on a slope instead of on the flat. I aim for constant power, constant cadence everywhere and hence avoid the mind games; perhaps hill-training is more relevant to other strategies. For the OP training on the flat would be perfectly adequate IMO.

ps. Aside from this slightly OT diversion I'm certain the OP will succeed. I've been on comparable trips with others (on hybrids) who have done ~zero training and we've always met the target.