6 weeks to prepare for the 2015 Etape du Tour.
Discussion
outnumbered said:
For someone like the OP who seems like a relative novice, the point of training on a hill is that it will force him to work hard. If he's on the flat, it's unlikely he'll be making enough effort to replicate how hard it'll be when climbing.
I'm a (very!) experienced cyclist, and I can never push myself hard on the flat, so use hills to make sure I don't have a choice but to try a bit.
This is a good point, there is the temptation of laziness on the flat that you cannot so easily submit to on a hill climb.I'm a (very!) experienced cyclist, and I can never push myself hard on the flat, so use hills to make sure I don't have a choice but to try a bit.
The numbers might be exactly the same on the flat or uphill, but the numbers only tell half the story. The psychology is a big part of it and no amount of grinding on the flat will prepare you in quite the same way. I'd say that if he's prepared to go for the event in spite of the short training then he's probably the 'right sort' to manage psychologically too.
And, as has already been mentioned, gravity won't let you ease up for even a second on the hills. That's quite a different situation to churning big power on the flats or into a wind. OK, if you have no hills locally then deal with what you've got, but if he has hills I really can't see any reason why you wouldn't train for the hills by riding hills.
And, as has already been mentioned, gravity won't let you ease up for even a second on the hills. That's quite a different situation to churning big power on the flats or into a wind. OK, if you have no hills locally then deal with what you've got, but if he has hills I really can't see any reason why you wouldn't train for the hills by riding hills.
Long steady rides to build up your endurance. 1 to 1.5 hour sessions on the turbo, constant pedalling, mid to high tempo heart rate for most of the session but going up to threshold hr for short intervals. Aim for a high cadence, try not to take too much out of your muscles, easier to recover your breathing.
TheInternet said:
outnumbered said:
For someone like the OP who seems like a relative novice, the point of training on a hill is that it will force him to work hard. If he's on the flat, it's unlikely he'll be making enough effort to replicate how hard it'll be when climbing.
I'm a (very!) experienced cyclist, and I can never push myself hard on the flat, so use hills to make sure I don't have a choice but to try a bit.
This is a good point, there is the temptation of laziness on the flat that you cannot so easily submit to on a hill climb.I'm a (very!) experienced cyclist, and I can never push myself hard on the flat, so use hills to make sure I don't have a choice but to try a bit.
Without wishing to knock the OP, it's the etape, not a solo ascent of the north face of the eiger. All this stuff about psychology is a little overblown IMO. Most folks I know who've done it are hardly talented athletes. Find a sustainable level of effort and just keep the pedals turning, simple.
Yes, if you have alpine climbs handy, go train on them. Unfortunately very few parts of the world have climbs of the kind of duration the big mountains do. To climb well you need to be able to keep a constant solid effort for a long time. The most specific training for that is to do it. The next most specific is to do those solid efforts any way you can - i.e. TT efforts on the flat. Laps of a short ramp (aka intervals) has very little relevance.
Anyways, as you will.. I'll be waiting at the top with a coffee
In my limited experience then I agree with both sides for training. You can put an effort in on the flat to replicate a hill. It's been said, a threshold effort @ certain rpm is a threshold effort, terrain doesn't matter. BUT, and this is the thing that consistent efforts on the flat can not replicate. When you start to hit the steeper ramps, say 12,13,15,18% then you run out of gears and you can't keep spinning, your cadence becomes , well, whatever you can actually manage, your HR goes where it goes and you loose pedal smoothness and you just rely on your strength. This is ok,, but it really hurts your endurance, and it's difficult to recover ,especially if the road keeps going up, you can't free wheel to recover, the only thing you can do is stop.
The OP can only train on the roads he has available, he sounds like the type of guy who will tough it out the best he can. My advice, get a many quality miles in as you can, make each ride count. Try a bit of over gearing to get used to pushing hard on the pedals a low rpm, because believe me , you will be pedalling at low rpm!.
But most of all, go and enjoy it, it the one event I haven't got around to doing yet. Oh yes good luck. :-)
The OP can only train on the roads he has available, he sounds like the type of guy who will tough it out the best he can. My advice, get a many quality miles in as you can, make each ride count. Try a bit of over gearing to get used to pushing hard on the pedals a low rpm, because believe me , you will be pedalling at low rpm!.
But most of all, go and enjoy it, it the one event I haven't got around to doing yet. Oh yes good luck. :-)
TheInternet said:
eems to be dividing opinion. I'm baffled as to why people think there's a big difference doing 150W @ 90rpm for an hour on a slope instead of on the flat. I aim for constant power, constant cadence everywhere and hence avoid the mind games; perhaps hill-training is more relevant to other strategies. For the OP training on the flat would be perfectly adequate IMO.
ps. Aside from this slightly OT diversion I'm certain the OP will succeed. I've been on comparable trips with others (on hybrids) who have done ~zero training and we've always met the target.
Its called "Specificity" you don't train for hills by riding on the flat. Its difficult to maintain constant power and cadence when the gradient changes, you find this out only by riding up hills.ps. Aside from this slightly OT diversion I'm certain the OP will succeed. I've been on comparable trips with others (on hybrids) who have done ~zero training and we've always met the target.
I'm probably just going to reiterate what others have said, and that's basically to pack in as many hard hilly miles as you can, before you go to your event. That really is the only way to prepare. I've ridden thousands of miles in the Alps and have done all the climbs in the route profile - the best bit of advice I can give you is to not get too excited at the start, measure your effort very carefully, things can go tits up very quickly and you end up paying big time. Rhythm, focus, rhythm, focus. No heroics!
RGambo said:
In my limited experience then I agree with both sides for training. You can put an effort in on the flat to replicate a hill. It's been said, a threshold effort @ certain rpm is a threshold effort, terrain doesn't matter. BUT, and this is the thing that consistent efforts on the flat can not replicate. When you start to hit the steeper ramps, say 12,13,15,18% then you run out of gears and you can't keep spinning, your cadence becomes , well, whatever you can actually manage, your HR goes where it goes and you loose pedal smoothness and you just rely on your strength. This is ok,, but it really hurts your endurance, and it's difficult to recover ,especially if the road keeps going up, you can't free wheel to recover, the only thing you can do is stop.
The OP can only train on the roads he has available, he sounds like the type of guy who will tough it out the best he can. My advice, get a many quality miles in as you can, make each ride count. Try a bit of over gearing to get used to pushing hard on the pedals a low rpm, because believe me , you will be pedalling at low rpm!.
But most of all, go and enjoy it, it the one event I haven't got around to doing yet. Oh yes good luck. :-)
All too familiar with that scenario yes.. but correct gearing The OP can only train on the roads he has available, he sounds like the type of guy who will tough it out the best he can. My advice, get a many quality miles in as you can, make each ride count. Try a bit of over gearing to get used to pushing hard on the pedals a low rpm, because believe me , you will be pedalling at low rpm!.
But most of all, go and enjoy it, it the one event I haven't got around to doing yet. Oh yes good luck. :-)
Amazing what a triple or compact +32 can do for you the most on that route is about 10% - that's kinda the thing with the alps (in my experience). Long drags, but not super steep.@stripy7 - yes indeed. Nice buzzword. Now actually read what's already been written about specificity and try to understand that just riding up any old hill does not make for 'specificity'
Anyways, I think I've done it to death.. the hillites can go on and the OP can decide for himself!
Well, I'm interested in all opinions...keep them coming.
I think both camps are correct. I need strength and cardio fitness...but I will definitely be focussing more on the cardio to start with, because without it I've no hope.
I've got a simple (old) heart rate monitor(with new batteries), which beeps if my heart rate drops out out of an adjustable preset training zone. I've set the lower threshold to 130 and the upper threshold to 155. I try to keep in that zone for the whole ride, though honestly it is fairly often above 155, especially if I hit a hill or just forget to listen for the beeps! Even in just 4 rides of 60,60,70 and 80km I've noticed my speed is increasing, but most of all I've noticed that my heart rate is dropping under 130 much faster if I back of the effort.
Tomorrow I'm going to aim for 120km, it should take me about 5 hours, or maybe longer as it is the first ride on the new bike. A week ago 120km would not have had much appeal...my attitude is different about it now...much calmer. I'd like to end up doing a couple of 200km rides before the event, and also a couple of days hitting some proper mountains. Obviously not too close to the event.
What do you guys think of the strategy of training on an empty stomach, forcing the body to improve fat burning. Should I have breakfast in the morning!?
I think both camps are correct. I need strength and cardio fitness...but I will definitely be focussing more on the cardio to start with, because without it I've no hope.
I've got a simple (old) heart rate monitor(with new batteries), which beeps if my heart rate drops out out of an adjustable preset training zone. I've set the lower threshold to 130 and the upper threshold to 155. I try to keep in that zone for the whole ride, though honestly it is fairly often above 155, especially if I hit a hill or just forget to listen for the beeps! Even in just 4 rides of 60,60,70 and 80km I've noticed my speed is increasing, but most of all I've noticed that my heart rate is dropping under 130 much faster if I back of the effort.
Tomorrow I'm going to aim for 120km, it should take me about 5 hours, or maybe longer as it is the first ride on the new bike. A week ago 120km would not have had much appeal...my attitude is different about it now...much calmer. I'd like to end up doing a couple of 200km rides before the event, and also a couple of days hitting some proper mountains. Obviously not too close to the event.
What do you guys think of the strategy of training on an empty stomach, forcing the body to improve fat burning. Should I have breakfast in the morning!?
OK - to the direct questions 155 isn't terribly high, but conservative is good. Try to keep it down early on - the biggest shock I got when I started riding with a power meter is just HOW MUCH you have to back off / gear down to keep the power under control on hills; the natural tendency is to ride constant speed (and hence a very 'spiky' effort). Constant effort is much more effective for endurance, those spikes really hurt you. So yeah, I'd recommend a lot of patience, and letting the speed drop off on the climbs rather than fight it.
Mixed feelings on the fat burning thing. I do tend to train very light on nutrition for that reason, but I've been training for a lot longer. Somewhat inclined to suggest that you'll do better to feed the engine and give yourself the best chance of effecting real change to your fitness, and also calibrate what it feels like to do the big rides without being half starved the whole time. You'll probably be able to eat plenty on the way around.
Mixed feelings on the fat burning thing. I do tend to train very light on nutrition for that reason, but I've been training for a lot longer. Somewhat inclined to suggest that you'll do better to feed the engine and give yourself the best chance of effecting real change to your fitness, and also calibrate what it feels like to do the big rides without being half starved the whole time. You'll probably be able to eat plenty on the way around.
4 hours 56 minutes ride, weather sunny, humid, 30 deg C. No idea what distance or speed...only that my heart rate was at about 150bpm most of the time.
New bike was great..a little quicker than the old one, no surprise there. I didn't need to use the granny ring on this ride, but it was nice to have it there. I think the bike has never actually been used, I could see new grease flowing out of the bottom bracket, pedals...I think this was a good used buy. Except....the gear selector jammed on the big ring with one hour (and the biggest climb) left to ride. It is still jammed. Not sure what the issue is, it jammed when I was trying to stop chain rub on a top gear descent. I suppose it is better to iron out all these issues in advance!
I had a dirty big plate of pasta and prawns half way through the ride. That was a highlight!
New bike was great..a little quicker than the old one, no surprise there. I didn't need to use the granny ring on this ride, but it was nice to have it there. I think the bike has never actually been used, I could see new grease flowing out of the bottom bracket, pedals...I think this was a good used buy. Except....the gear selector jammed on the big ring with one hour (and the biggest climb) left to ride. It is still jammed. Not sure what the issue is, it jammed when I was trying to stop chain rub on a top gear descent. I suppose it is better to iron out all these issues in advance!
I had a dirty big plate of pasta and prawns half way through the ride. That was a highlight!
Hmm I wonder
http://youtu.be/yluBRlqllUE
and this
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40...
http://youtu.be/yluBRlqllUE
and this
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40...
Edited by Kawasicki on Sunday 7th June 20:47
^ sounds a bit rubbish for Ultegra. Just check the front mech hasn't dropped down by the 2mm it would take to sit lower than the top of the teeth of the big ring, if that happens it gets jammed in the big ring positon and won't shift down. Mech will be rubbing against the chain too.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES NOT go slack then that indicates a shifter problem.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES go slack then that indicates a mech problem.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES NOT go slack then that indicates a shifter problem.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES go slack then that indicates a mech problem.
richardxjr said:
^ sounds a bit rubbish for Ultegra. Just check the front mech hasn't dropped down by the 2mm it would take to sit lower than the top of the teeth of the big ring, if that happens it gets jammed in the big ring positon and won't shift down. Mech will be rubbing against the chain too.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES NOT go slack then that indicates a shifter problem.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES go slack then that indicates a mech problem.
Cheers! I will see if I can get Rose to have a look at the problem. If they won't support me, I'll fix it or replace it myself.If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES NOT go slack then that indicates a shifter problem.
If when you try to shift down to the smallest ring nothing happens and the cable DOES go slack then that indicates a mech problem.
Yeah thinking about it, you can replicate long climbs on the flat, some of my toughest rides this year have been 4 hour completely flat runs, running at near threshold .
But the above only really suits intermediate/advanced riders riding in a group, as I find it is simply (this is me) too hard to ride at a sustained high pace on my own on long flat rides, its too easy to mentally wonder and "drop off". Hence as others said, when doing hilly rides you have no choice to push yourself! The long flat rides I did were in a group, who all relished it, I couldn't just ease off as they would and did drop me.
I don't ride on an empty stomach, could think of nothing worse, although I have no weight to lose. I know plenty of riders who do and swear by it.
Due to the time constraints I would get your body used to the riding and food intake and have a good solid breakfast like porridge.
But the above only really suits intermediate/advanced riders riding in a group, as I find it is simply (this is me) too hard to ride at a sustained high pace on my own on long flat rides, its too easy to mentally wonder and "drop off". Hence as others said, when doing hilly rides you have no choice to push yourself! The long flat rides I did were in a group, who all relished it, I couldn't just ease off as they would and did drop me.
I don't ride on an empty stomach, could think of nothing worse, although I have no weight to lose. I know plenty of riders who do and swear by it.
Due to the time constraints I would get your body used to the riding and food intake and have a good solid breakfast like porridge.
upsidedownmark said:
All too familiar with that scenario yes.. but correct gearing Amazing what a triple or compact +32 can do for you the most on that route is about 10% - that's kinda the thing with the alps (in my experience). Long drags, but not super steep.
@stripy7 - yes indeed. Nice buzzword. Now actually read what's already been written about specificity and try to understand that just riding up any old hill does not make for 'specificity'
Anyways, I think I've done it to death.. the hillites can go on and the OP can decide for himself!
On that basis- OP, no need to ride your bike at all just head to the gym and use a static bike. Amazing what a triple or compact +32 can do for you the most on that route is about 10% - that's kinda the thing with the alps (in my experience). Long drags, but not super steep.@stripy7 - yes indeed. Nice buzzword. Now actually read what's already been written about specificity and try to understand that just riding up any old hill does not make for 'specificity'
Anyways, I think I've done it to death.. the hillites can go on and the OP can decide for himself!
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