Prudential Ride London 2015
Discussion
okgo said:
You can see that they have tried to limit this by banning people of a certain standard from entering (1st cat and above I think) but perhaps they need to extend it further? FWIW the first people over the line were not bad riders at all, and if you were able to do something and stay in the front (loads of 3rd cats etc I know finished right near the front inc one 1st cat who must have entered before his promotion ha) then you really should try some proper racing, there is no real reason not to is there?
I agree with Tom in that being yelled at to stay left is not really very pleasant, of course the easy way to avoid all of this is to set of purely by ability (do they do this now?) then the 'fast' people would be gone and out of sight before the rest came through.
I didn't get in this year but did the "wet one" last year- the behaviour of the so called "good" cyclists was the only thing that let it down.I agree with Tom in that being yelled at to stay left is not really very pleasant, of course the easy way to avoid all of this is to set of purely by ability (do they do this now?) then the 'fast' people would be gone and out of sight before the rest came through.
In the driving rain the newbies and charity riders where plodding along on the left at 12mph, I didn't want to die so was following them, jumping past the occasional super-slow rider on Boris bike and the bloke on the BMX (what a legend!)
The Danger came every few minutes from a chain gang of carbon road warriors trying to maintain 25-30mph average in groups of 8-10 or more through 6" deep puddles with no possibility of stopping in time steam rolling through shouting at everyone, I almost smiled each time (about 4 times) I saw one of these groups come a cropper in a big pile up, entirely self inflicted.
Ride London is NOT a Sportive IMO, on a sportive the rider competence level is broadly similar or at least the slowest, lowest level riders are quiet competent. On Ride London the spread of skills was HUGE, normal Sportives don't include celebrities, sports stars and ex-pros. To make matters worse the charity/fun riders at the other end of the spectrum can't be expected to know the typical rules of club/group rides and just ride like they are going for a Sunday bimble.
I don't know what they could do frankly- I guess the hardcore riders just need to rein it in abit and treat it with the lack of seriousness it requires.
scubadude said:
I don't know what they could do frankly- I guess the hardcore riders just need to rein it in abit and treat it with the lack of seriousness it requires.
They could and should split the riders up according to ability. When you have that many riders all sharing same piece of road you're going to have a vast spread of abilities. Segregating start times is the only sensible way to do it.The quick guys don't want the slow ones in the way and the slow ones don't want to be buzzed by pelotons shouting (how dare they warn people of their approach!). It really is a win-win. It would be so easy to do and we'd see far fewer crashes during and whining afterwards.
I had the impression that is what they were trying to do when they asked for everyone's estimated times during initial sign up.
If so, I could see how easily that would fall down if people put down unrepresentative times; whether because they had no idea know how long it might take them, they had an idea but wanted to get into a pen nearer the front or because they thought it might increase their chances of being successful in the ballot.
Not sure how else they could do it. They could do it like the Italian Gran Fondos and have some seeding based on previous results, but how many would have been successful in the ballot twice to have been able to set a previous time?
If so, I could see how easily that would fall down if people put down unrepresentative times; whether because they had no idea know how long it might take them, they had an idea but wanted to get into a pen nearer the front or because they thought it might increase their chances of being successful in the ballot.
Not sure how else they could do it. They could do it like the Italian Gran Fondos and have some seeding based on previous results, but how many would have been successful in the ballot twice to have been able to set a previous time?
toohangry said:
yellowjack said:
My experience of the day? Well the man from the Pru wouldn't let me play. So I went out after the riders had gone through and grabbed a piece of the action.
What a strange thing to do. SixPotBelly said:
I had the impression that is what they were trying to do when they asked for everyone's estimated times during initial sign up.
If so, I could see how easily that would fall down if people put down unrepresentative times; whether because they had no idea know how long it might take them, they had an idea but wanted to get into a pen nearer the front or because they thought it might increase their chances of being successful in the ballot.
Not sure how else they could do it. They could do it like the Italian Gran Fondos and have some seeding based on previous results, but how many would have been successful in the ballot twice to have been able to set a previous time?
I quite liked Flanders this year where there was no fuss at all and you turned up whenever you liked between the opening window and just rolled over the start line and off you went. Not sure if that would work over here.If so, I could see how easily that would fall down if people put down unrepresentative times; whether because they had no idea know how long it might take them, they had an idea but wanted to get into a pen nearer the front or because they thought it might increase their chances of being successful in the ballot.
Not sure how else they could do it. They could do it like the Italian Gran Fondos and have some seeding based on previous results, but how many would have been successful in the ballot twice to have been able to set a previous time?
Pretty sure the only reason for my super late start is I deferred from last year, and when I signed up just doing it was a goal for me as I sucked and had only just started riding. Most the strong riders around me seemed to be in charity shirts so I guess a few just wanted to get in whatever route was required.
I don't think the timing question is the best way to do it for the reasons you state. You could have timing based upon previous results + similar events (which they already have). But you could also more subjective questions that people could scale and classify themselves more easily.
1) Race licence
2) Quick club rider
3) Average club rider
4) Slow but steady
5) Just happy to finish to be honest. I'll be weaving all over the shop and walking up hills.
1) Race licence
2) Quick club rider
3) Average club rider
4) Slow but steady
5) Just happy to finish to be honest. I'll be weaving all over the shop and walking up hills.
In a whim I decided to have a go at this event, not having cycled for several decades. I got a place for a charity I've supported for years, and set about some serious training to get match fit, never really sure if I was up to the challenge. On the form I put a time of 8 hours, as quite frankly I nothing to base it on and wrongly assumed the slower I'd be the more time they'd allow me to complete, and a start time of 8.42am.
Months of serious training saw a moving time of 6½ hours which I was dead chuffed with, and living in Dorset definitely gave me the edge on the hills.
I was however quite surprised how many large club/team groups were in the same start wave as me, who then proceeded to try and cut a high speed swathe through the rest of the slower/inexperienced riders. Some of them were obviously experienced and proficient groups, so why they in such a late start group at the back.
And some of the lunatics going absolutely hell for leather on crowded downhill sections, then grinding to a standstill on the slightest incline. Saw some fairly unpleasant crashes, and a few being carted off by ambulance, besides the poor chap and the heart attack on Leith Hill just hope the rest are ok.
Months of serious training saw a moving time of 6½ hours which I was dead chuffed with, and living in Dorset definitely gave me the edge on the hills.
I was however quite surprised how many large club/team groups were in the same start wave as me, who then proceeded to try and cut a high speed swathe through the rest of the slower/inexperienced riders. Some of them were obviously experienced and proficient groups, so why they in such a late start group at the back.
And some of the lunatics going absolutely hell for leather on crowded downhill sections, then grinding to a standstill on the slightest incline. Saw some fairly unpleasant crashes, and a few being carted off by ambulance, besides the poor chap and the heart attack on Leith Hill just hope the rest are ok.
whatleytom said:
toohangry said:
yellowjack said:
My experience of the day? Well the man from the Pru wouldn't let me play. So I went out after the riders had gone through and grabbed a piece of the action.
What a strange thing to do. But by the time I got to the route, the closures were all lifted, and the roads were open to all traffic as normal. So in reality I just went out for a bike ride from 4pm 'til midnight, and massively enjoyed myself. I overtook a couple of riders on MTBs and hybrids, no one (on a bicycle at least) passed me, and there would have been no-one to blame but me if I'd crashed. I think the lack of huge numbers of riders around me was a bonus in that I trust me, but can't easily identify the idiots among thousands of riders. But it meant I was slow. Very slow. No one to work with, no riders ahead to try to catch, no passing riders to try to hang on to, and traffic lights/junctions, etc, to contend with.
I had joked about sneaking onto the course during the event, but I don't think I could bring myself to do that in reality. I've entered the ballot every year, and failed to get a place. Last year I was glad I didn't get in because I was only just back riding after a serious crash in the February, but I wouldn't add to the chaos and confusion at the back of the field by adding an 'unofficial' 7 hour-ish entrant to the mix.
So me wanting to bag a big ride on open roads (no charge!) isn't that much different to 26,000 others paying an entry fee to do the same. I honestly don't need the 'support' that the entry fee pays for. I stopped once, at a petrol station, to top up my drinks toward the end, and had one 'comfort break' on a deserted verge, but other than that I was self-sufficient, solo, and happy to be so. If you ask me, wanting to ride up the likes of Leith Hill, shoulder to shoulder with a hundred random riders is stranger...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Just carry 2x 750ml bottles. I stopped once to refill, took a couple minutes, then another couple minutes to piss it out again 15km from the end. I'm sure I benefitted from these 2 brief stops. Being closed roads there weren't any traffic light stops which can be a bit of a relief on a longer ride.Schmy said:
I don't think the timing question is the best way to do it for the reasons you state. You could have timing based upon previous results + similar events (which they already have). But you could also more subjective questions that people could scale and classify themselves more easily.
1) Race licence
2) Quick club rider
3) Average club rider
4) Slow but steady
5) Just happy to finish to be honest. I'll be weaving all over the shop and walking up hills.
I like that, except I'd qualify for numbers 1 and 3 (/4). But I'd tick 3 1) Race licence
2) Quick club rider
3) Average club rider
4) Slow but steady
5) Just happy to finish to be honest. I'll be weaving all over the shop and walking up hills.
Mr Gear said:
4.28 for me, which isn't too bad, but my 'start slow, finish strong' plan was reversed when I was carried away in a very fast group at the start that only broke up on Leith. Don't know if that helped or hindered my time, but I was feeling rough coming back into London.
Saw one rider in PH Jersey cross the finish at the same time as me... Green socks and bar tape... Yellow Jersey... Any takers?
Could be me - maybe... : black bike?Saw one rider in PH Jersey cross the finish at the same time as me... Green socks and bar tape... Yellow Jersey... Any takers?
There is as much 'reverse' snobbery on this thread as there is actual snobbery.
I can't see why else you would an event such as this if it wasn't to challenge yourself; either by aiming for a sub 4 or sub 8 time, I certainly want it to be a jolly ride in the countryside and nor IMO should it be.
I wonder if there is the same level of criticism on running forums directed to the marathon, GnR etc.
I can't see why else you would an event such as this if it wasn't to challenge yourself; either by aiming for a sub 4 or sub 8 time, I certainly want it to be a jolly ride in the countryside and nor IMO should it be.
I wonder if there is the same level of criticism on running forums directed to the marathon, GnR etc.
TheFungle said:
There is as much 'reverse' snobbery on this thread as there is actual snobbery.
I can't see why else you would an event such as this if it wasn't to challenge yourself; either by aiming for a sub 4 or sub 8 time, I certainly want it to be a jolly ride in the countryside and nor IMO should it be.
I wonder if there is the same level of criticism on running forums directed to the marathon, GnR etc.
The nature of cycling means that the speed differential between "fast" riders and those bimbling along can be huge, so I think there is going to be a lot of chances for people to be coming into contact with varying abilities. Not to mention the fact that the finish times are going to vary a lot more compared to peoples estimates, as imo there are a lot more factors at play. In a marathon you've usually got a very good idea of when you're going to finish. You've trained at x.min/mile pace, so you slot into that group in the start pen, and all being well you run the race at your pace. In this the pens are organised before the race, and depending on whether you go out way too hard, draft a fast group etc, finish times are going to be all over the place. Not to mention, crashes, punctures, feed stops etc. I can't see why else you would an event such as this if it wasn't to challenge yourself; either by aiming for a sub 4 or sub 8 time, I certainly want it to be a jolly ride in the countryside and nor IMO should it be.
I wonder if there is the same level of criticism on running forums directed to the marathon, GnR etc.
whatleytom said:
The nature of cycling means that the speed differential between "fast" riders and those bimbling along can be huge, so I think there is going to be a lot of chances for people to be coming into contact with varying abilities. Not to mention the fact that the finish times are going to vary a lot more compared to peoples estimates, as imo there are a lot more factors at play. In a marathon you've usually got a very good idea of when you're going to finish. You've trained at x.min/mile pace, so you slot into that group in the start pen, and all being well you run the race at your pace. In this the pens are organised before the race, and depending on whether you go out way too hard, draft a fast group etc, finish times are going to be all over the place. Not to mention, crashes, punctures, feed stops etc.
Agreed.I'm not really sure what else could be done, start times were (in theory) staggered by ability and the guide book gave pretty decent guidance if you were a fast or slow rider.
okgo said:
SixPotBelly said:
I like that, except I'd qualify for numbers 1 and 3 (/4). But I'd tick 3
I guess you'd just do BC category 2/3rd cat as one and then 4th cat as another... I meant I'd tick box number 3, not tick three boxes. My holding of a race licence having more to do with my ability to complete an online application form than any ability to ride quickly.Rolls said:
Mr Gear said:
4.28 for me, which isn't too bad, but my 'start slow, finish strong' plan was reversed when I was carried away in a very fast group at the start that only broke up on Leith. Don't know if that helped or hindered my time, but I was feeling rough coming back into London.
Saw one rider in PH Jersey cross the finish at the same time as me... Green socks and bar tape... Yellow Jersey... Any takers?
Could be me - maybe... : black bike?Saw one rider in PH Jersey cross the finish at the same time as me... Green socks and bar tape... Yellow Jersey... Any takers?
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff