Stages powermeters
Discussion
So yes, that would mean your readings were 20% out either up or down, so for example that would give me an FTP of Bradley Wiggins vs what it actually is, if it was the higher figure, or it would be around that of a half decent 4th cat. Totally ridiculous.
How anyone thinks this product is worthy of their money I have literally no idea especially now the competition have adjusted their prices.
How anyone thinks this product is worthy of their money I have literally no idea especially now the competition have adjusted their prices.
Personally, Brad Wiggins' power output is of no concern to me, nor I suspect to anyone else on this forum who actually pays for a powermeter.
If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
celestequattro said:
Personally, Brad Wiggins' power output is of no concern to me, nor I suspect to anyone else on this forum who actually pays for a powermeter.
If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
You are paying for a product which has one function, to measure the power you are creating ,why on EARTH would you want one that doesn't do it accurately, it defeats the whole point ( especially when the competition do ) - the wiggins thing was an example of how flawed the tech is.If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
I just don't get how people have swallowed the marketing s
t from this lot, they have made a product that not only is cheaply made and breaks all the time, BUT also doesn't even do what a powermeter should with any degree of accuracy unless you are the magic person with perfect balance. Even a 2% imbalance would mean it would fall outside of the parameters of Quarq, Power 2 Max and SRM, and 2% is not a lot my commute to work was 48/52 this morning for example.Anyone that asks I advise strongly against this product, and it amuses me no end when people ignore that and then find out just how pants they are first hand. Their whole appeal seems to be ease of switching bikes, I can tell you that you can switch a GXP crank set in just as little time.
A chap I know just bought one, his twitter feed is a vent of anger about how s
t it is. celestequattro said:
Personally, Brad Wiggins' power output is of no concern to me, nor I suspect to anyone else on this forum who actually pays for a powermeter.
If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
BECAUSE IMBALANCE IS NOT STATIC. It varies, therefore the numbers are not repeatable, which is the cornerstone of a power meter. If you are looking to train to specific power zones and have done a power profile or ramp test and your FTP is 300 it could be 300 Watts or 300 bananas. It does not matter. It is just a base measurement from which to train and measure improvement.
If a rider really does have a severe power imbalance then the number reported would be consistently lower and so would the corresponding zones. So what? You still have a base to measure from.
I accept that calculating a magic number like 7 W/kg may be flawed if you do suffer from such a severe imbalance, but for most people this is academic.
Notwithstanding the above, the Stages product measurements look bang on to me.
Or to put it another way, across a typical ride I vary from 200 bananas to 350 bananas on stages or any other left-only guessing widget, while a proper power meter would measure 260 bananas the whole time.
Simple really, but apparently hard to grasp, notwithstanding the need to validate ones own purchasing decisions.
You are correct. I am dim. I did not realise people pressed down on their pedals to achieve a flat 200W by either producing 120W left and 80W right one minute, then the reverse the next minute. Or second. Or whatever.
If this is the case Stages is not for you but maybe you need to sort out your imbalance anyway if it is that bad. At (average?) FTP either leg could be producing too much lactate whilst your power meter taking an average for both legs says you are fine. So you will blow below FTP. Or your imbalance would skew your FTP anyway.
Seems like a real problem to me.
I do not need to validate my purchasing decision - I am merely trying to help the OP with a balanced view.
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
If this is the case Stages is not for you but maybe you need to sort out your imbalance anyway if it is that bad. At (average?) FTP either leg could be producing too much lactate whilst your power meter taking an average for both legs says you are fine. So you will blow below FTP. Or your imbalance would skew your FTP anyway.
Seems like a real problem to me.
I do not need to validate my purchasing decision - I am merely trying to help the OP with a balanced view.
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
I sense a certain amount of sarcasm 
Not really from minute to minute, or second, but it varies with fatigue and intensity - In my case I swing between about 5% left bias to 8% right bias - on average a slight right bias (2-4%). It doesn't appear to be systematic/predictable (i.e. I can't say I'm X% biassed at threshold, etc), and frankly I'm not concerned by the bias, or individual measurement (nor is my coach), but it makes a complete mockery of 'left and double' - that would give me a power variance of double the swing - from a 16% underread to 10% over. Hence measuring total power matters.
I'm not an anomaly either - I'm probably more 'normal' than the person who is perfectly 50/50. Hell, very few bodies are totally symmetric / balanced either in muscle mass, or skeletally.
Stages *used* to make a compelling argument on cost - now there are total measurement systems at a similar price point, they don't - the game has moved on (IMHO).
Not really from minute to minute, or second, but it varies with fatigue and intensity - In my case I swing between about 5% left bias to 8% right bias - on average a slight right bias (2-4%). It doesn't appear to be systematic/predictable (i.e. I can't say I'm X% biassed at threshold, etc), and frankly I'm not concerned by the bias, or individual measurement (nor is my coach), but it makes a complete mockery of 'left and double' - that would give me a power variance of double the swing - from a 16% underread to 10% over. Hence measuring total power matters.
I'm not an anomaly either - I'm probably more 'normal' than the person who is perfectly 50/50. Hell, very few bodies are totally symmetric / balanced either in muscle mass, or skeletally.
Stages *used* to make a compelling argument on cost - now there are total measurement systems at a similar price point, they don't - the game has moved on (IMHO).
celestequattro said:
At (average?) FTP either leg could be producing too much lactate whilst your power meter taking an average for both legs says you are fine. So you will blow below FTP. Or your imbalance would skew your FTP anyway.
....
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
You really should....
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
Yeah my L/R Balance seems to vary between 53/47 to 50/50 but if you actually look at the data within a power file you will if can easily go 60/40 or 40/60 at certain times especially in races, though much steadier when trying to do a 'steady/constant' effort.
Have a look at the following file of mine, this would have been complete garbage if it was recorded with a Stages powermeter.
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/690310694
Have a look at the following file of mine, this would have been complete garbage if it was recorded with a Stages powermeter.
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/690310694
whatleytom said:
celestequattro said:
At (average?) FTP either leg could be producing too much lactate whilst your power meter taking an average for both legs says you are fine. So you will blow below FTP. Or your imbalance would skew your FTP anyway.
....
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
You really should....
I will leave the data analysis to my coach.
I did wonder what he was on aboutI have a Quarq on my training bike and Stages on my race bike.
The quarq is a better bit of kit (although it has had to be replaced under warranty once) but the Stages is fine for what I use it for (gauging effort during races rather than extensive training in specific zones). It's been reliable, the figures are consistent with the Quarq and I don't have any imbalance issues. It's cheap (relatively), easy and convenient. It's not the best thing ever, but it's fine and it was half the price of the Quarq. I would certainly look at P2M if buying again though, as that seems to be the best of both worlds.
HTH.
The quarq is a better bit of kit (although it has had to be replaced under warranty once) but the Stages is fine for what I use it for (gauging effort during races rather than extensive training in specific zones). It's been reliable, the figures are consistent with the Quarq and I don't have any imbalance issues. It's cheap (relatively), easy and convenient. It's not the best thing ever, but it's fine and it was half the price of the Quarq. I would certainly look at P2M if buying again though, as that seems to be the best of both worlds.
HTH.
As far as I see the quarq does everything P2M does now with the temp compensation update, and accelerometer update meaning no magnets required?
The one thing I think is great about the quarq is the Qalvin app, you can do a fair amount of adjustment and all the updates through it, not sure if the other crank systems offer that yet, obviously SRM you still have to send it off for a new battery I think!
The one thing I think is great about the quarq is the Qalvin app, you can do a fair amount of adjustment and all the updates through it, not sure if the other crank systems offer that yet, obviously SRM you still have to send it off for a new battery I think!
okgo said:
As far as I see the quarq does everything P2M does now with the temp compensation update, and accelerometer update meaning no magnets required?
The one thing I think is great about the quarq is the Qalvin app, you can do a fair amount of adjustment and all the updates through it, not sure if the other crank systems offer that yet, obviously SRM you still have to send it off for a new battery I think!
Yup, quarq and P2M are pretty much identical now except for the app. Don't think the Riken does power balance though, not that you really need it. The one thing I think is great about the quarq is the Qalvin app, you can do a fair amount of adjustment and all the updates through it, not sure if the other crank systems offer that yet, obviously SRM you still have to send it off for a new battery I think!
neenaw said:
okgo said:
It does, I think I've got a Riken and get the balance...maybe its an Elsa? God knows.
The Elsa does balance but the Riken is just single sided measurement. I think that was the only difference between the two when I bought my Riken. 
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