Legs of Steel tomorrow

Legs of Steel tomorrow

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SixPotBelly

1,922 posts

219 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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richardxjr said:
Crikey, bit chilly was it?! Well done smile
Crikey, are my shorts that revealing?



biggrin

It was 7 degrees at the start. Was forecast to warm up but the sun didn't manage to burn off the mist and cloud until well after we'd finished, and 9 degrees was as balmy as it got.


Edited by SixPotBelly on Monday 5th October 18:06

IntegraTypeR

100 posts

249 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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I was shivering so much on the initial descent down box hill - thought my front wheel was loose the bike was wobbling so much! smile

SixPotBelly

1,922 posts

219 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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That was horrible, wasn't it? The standing around waiting to be released was fine, but the windchill on that descent made it the coldest I've felt on a bike yet. Have never looked forward to a descent ending and climbing up something taxing before!

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Daveyraveygravey said:
So all, how do you train for this? I think my problem is all round my average is too slow. This year I tried not to waste myself on the climbs, and hoped to keep the average up on the flats. I had a horrible crash on a descent in June so I am willing to give up some of the "free" time on descents these days. My rough plan is to keep riding through the winter and then in April to start focusing on intervals. I have a target of 18 mph average on a 3 hour normal ride in my head, but doubt I have that in me.
IMHO that's kinda the opposite of what you need for LoS. This one's all about the climbs, and none of them are long (well, not alpine long anyhow). Being fast is all about smashing the hills so they don't take too much off your average, and recover in between. Exact opposite of how I normally ride / like to ride.

Oh, and weighing very little would help too smile

Daveyraveygravey

Original Poster:

2,018 posts

183 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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upsidedownmark said:
IMHO that's kinda the opposite of what you need for LoS. This one's all about the climbs, and none of them are long (well, not alpine long anyhow). Being fast is all about smashing the hills so they don't take too much off your average, and recover in between. Exact opposite of how I normally ride / like to ride.

Oh, and weighing very little would help too smile
Interesting, after my first year I thought if I could shave a minute off 4 or 5 of the 8 climbs that would make the difference, but I then blew it all on the first hill. Will probably ride the route a few times early next year to get a feel of where I can go for it.

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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SixPotBelly said:
That was horrible, wasn't it? The standing around waiting to be released was fine, but the windchill on that descent made it the coldest I've felt on a bike yet. Have never looked forward to a descent ending and climbing up something taxing before!
I ride those hills fairly often, and it can get really difficult to dress for a long ride at this time of year, and deeper into winter.

My worst time was a big 'un, mileage-wise, where I was still out when the sun went down. I'd been fine while that yellow orb was above the horizon, but my fingers ceased to function coming down off Leith Hill after sunset as I'd gone out in mitts instead of full-finger gloves. I'm not good at layering, or taking extra warm kit with me, preferring to take my 'best guess' on the clothing sweetspot for the day's weather and just getting on with it. That's not so bad when it's a two hour ride, but I typically head out for 4 to 6 hours, sometimes more, and the temperature can change a lot in that time, especially when it's winter, and daylight hours are short anyway.

The temperature also fluctuates according to which side of the ridge you are climbing/descending, how open or sheltered the slope is, and frost can linger under tree cover for hours in a 'cold spot', long after the sun has thawed it out and dried it up everywhere else. It's a fabulous place to ride on a crisp, clear winter's day, though.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Daveyraveygravey said:
Interesting, after my first year I thought if I could shave a minute off 4 or 5 of the 8 climbs that would make the difference, but I then blew it all on the first hill. Will probably ride the route a few times early next year to get a feel of where I can go for it.
Obviously blowing on the first hill doesn't help smile I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd train to optimise my short duration (5-10 minute) power; something along the lines of intervals of 5 mins or so at max sustainable, alongside the usual base type work, rather than (say) concentrating on threshold power. Just my 2p anyhow.

SixPotBelly

1,922 posts

219 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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^^ makes a lot of sense to me. I think it's how I could improve too, if I were to target this event. Focus on making up time where I'm slowest - climbing - and accept that I'd have to recover a bit on the flatter sections.

Edited by SixPotBelly on Tuesday 6th October 13:02

Daveyraveygravey

Original Poster:

2,018 posts

183 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Sixpotbelly, how come you manage to look good in the pic?! I've been on loads of rides now where they have official photography, and in every picture I look like a right dick. This is about the only good one, ever.



I had a hill repeat programme in the Garmin for Everest training, 11 mins in Z4 or higher, then 4 mins in z2 or lower. It's very tough, not least because the Garmin is bleeping at you constantly to work harder when you're in the 11 minutes (as soon as you get it in the zone, you back off, so it beeps, and if you go downhill it is nigh on impossible to keep it high enough) and then in the 4 mins it isn't long enough to get the HR down again! Will be doing more of that early next year, maybe lose a couple of kgs, work on holding a better position. There's a 9km segment from Coldharbour to Leith Hill that I took over 25 minutes on this year. I haven't got any events in the calendar for next year so the temptation to focus on this is huge.

okgo

37,849 posts

197 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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The difference between riding at what you can do for an hour and what you can do maximally for one 5 minute climb is likely not a lot in time differences over the climbs, I personally if I was doing something like this - all I can liken it to is a hilly time trial - I would ride the climbs at a bit above what I thought I could maintain for an hour, otherwise you'll overcook it and lose time overall.

The best tactic would probably be to push a hard tempo on the flat, slightly harder than that up the short climbs and then get a bit of recovery down the hills where you'll be getting less value for your power vs flat/rolling and uphill.

SixPotBelly

1,922 posts

219 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Daveyraveygravey said:
Sixpotbelly, how come you manage to look good in the pic?! I've been on loads of rides now where they have official photography, and in every picture I look like a right dick.
Good? I was hoping that was me looking worse than I actually do. biggrin

At least you look like a cyclist. I look like a hamster in a guardsman's outfit...



Edited by SixPotBelly on Tuesday 6th October 13:50

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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okgo said:
The difference between riding at what you can do for an hour and what you can do maximally for one 5 minute climb is likely not a lot in time differences over the climbs, I personally if I was doing something like this - all I can liken it to is a hilly time trial - I would ride the climbs at a bit above what I thought I could maintain for an hour, otherwise you'll overcook it and lose time overall.

The best tactic would probably be to push a hard tempo on the flat, slightly harder than that up the short climbs and then get a bit of recovery down the hills where you'll be getting less value for your power vs flat/rolling and uphill.
Thing is okgo, it's not really much like a hilly time trial. There's relatively very little flat, and most of the hills, while fairly short are of the type where if you ride at the average cyclists ftp (lets say around low 200's of watts), you will grind to a halt and fall off; for most people the hills mean going over threshold.

Hence the suggestion that *training* would focus on a short duration power, and high VI. Obviously the execution would need to temper that somewhat, not suggesting riding 5 minute max up the first hill of a 3+hour event..

richardxjr

7,561 posts

209 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Davey, you're in the South Downs like me right? Get a singlespeed mountain bike (29er, 32:20 to start) and sign up the Strava climbing challenges.

Build one or buy summat like this
http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/mountain-bikes-c1/si...


okgo

37,849 posts

197 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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upsidedownmark said:
Thing is okgo, it's not really much like a hilly time trial. There's relatively very little flat, and most of the hills, while fairly short are of the type where if you ride at the average cyclists ftp (lets say around low 200's of watts), you will grind to a halt and fall off; for most people the hills mean going over threshold.

Hence the suggestion that *training* would focus on a short duration power, and high VI. Obviously the execution would need to temper that somewhat, not suggesting riding 5 minute max up the first hill of a 3+hour event..
I don't know the route, but if it really is a saw tooth (I know the climbs pretty well) then yes. Hmm, I'm not sure if 200w is average is it? If so then yes I agree, you're going to be in the red going up a climb.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Well, for the purposes of comparison - at 40(ish)years old and 80kg, my threshold is 250w, and I train pretty seriously (albeit tri focussed), all year round. Just missed the gold time last year, and I'd like to think I'm towards the better end of average for a cyclist who isn't a seriour racer/competitor. Unsurprisingly with those numbers I *suck* on hills :/

Equally I'm trained to be a diesel - I'm pretty sure I could improve on my short term climbing, but it's not what I normally need.

Daveyraveygravey

Original Poster:

2,018 posts

183 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Here's my Strava file from last year - this year's goes a bit mad after 2 hours as my Garmin battery is on its last legs. Ignore after 80km, I was making it up to a 100km ride.

https://www.strava.com/activities/199993499

There are 8 climbs they advertise but there must be 5-6 other lesser climbs. These on their own wouldn't be too much of an issue, but in amongst the rest of it they have an impact too. I'm 50, 79kg on a good day and ride a lot but don't train systematically.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far, hoovering it up!

Edited by Daveyraveygravey on Tuesday 6th October 17:49

okgo

37,849 posts

197 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Looks like a pretty good route, I may pinch it from your strava!

Rolls

1,502 posts

176 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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you guys should do king of the downs : tis good fun!
https://www.strava.com/activities/315616634

Daveyraveygravey

Original Poster:

2,018 posts

183 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Richardxjr, I was thinking of trying the Downs climbs in the middle ring rather than the granny ring, is that a budget version of another bike!?

Rolls - that looks tough, most of LOS and as far to the east with more killer hills.

caul pope

250 posts

167 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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