Getting Faster...
Discussion
If it is flat pace, then you need to work on your muscular endurance. A turbo trainer would be the fastest way to focus on that, though you could equally do it on-road, although very rarely are your rest periods slow enough and your hard intervals hard enough on the road. And forget about average speeds for your rides, it should be effort per interval (e.g. 3 x 10 mins pretty hard going, 10 mins solid resting spinning the inner ring)
As a starting point, a cheap fluid trainer from eBay and a couple of Sufferfest videos - I'd recommend 9 Hammers and A Very Dark Place to start - plus a fan! - will see some decent gains in about 6 weeks.
That's how I started to properly train, as opposed to ride around quickly for an hour.
As a starting point, a cheap fluid trainer from eBay and a couple of Sufferfest videos - I'd recommend 9 Hammers and A Very Dark Place to start - plus a fan! - will see some decent gains in about 6 weeks.
That's how I started to properly train, as opposed to ride around quickly for an hour.
okgo said:
This place is great.
Swapping miles out for gym work, 50 miles a week is plenty? What next?
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
As nobody else has mentioned it, have you considered how well your bike fits you?
What is limiting your speed - is it your lungs, your legs, back stiffness, other aches and pains or what?
You may not need to ride harder at all, you might just need to ride better. Consider all options.
What is limiting your speed - is it your lungs, your legs, back stiffness, other aches and pains or what?
You may not need to ride harder at all, you might just need to ride better. Consider all options.
snorkel sucker said:
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then 50-75 miles a week off road is a decent amount.
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
You can easily make a road bike ride as hard as you want, just ride harder. MTB isn't some dark art that defies physics you know. He said his brother rides away from him on the flat, ergo, he isn't fit enough. On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
snorkel sucker said:
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then 50-75 miles a week off road is a decent amount.
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
You are right, I enjoy MTB more over road riding, I enjoy the odd sportive throughout the year and this year I'm hoping to commute once or twice a week when the days are longer (25miles each way), my road bike can sit for weeks without turning a wheel.On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
What sort of off bike training would you recommend?
tjdixon911 said:
I have a road bike also and considering a trainer / rollers again - is this worthwhile for when I have a spare half hour to get the legs spinning?
I've been doing this and this whenever I have a spare 30 minutes.I find it easier to beast myself on a trainer than out on the bike as I'm always worried I'll have trouble getting home afterwards!
tjdixon911 said:
richardxjr said:
How hilly?
Not very, Tuesday night stats were 26.3 miles 273ft climbing - I live in East Anglia so we don't have much in the way of hills...So, if you want to be faster on the road you'll have to do more riding on the road. As the snorkel guy said up there.
tjdixon911 said:
I enjoy MTB more over road riding. What sort of off bike training would you recommend?
Well, in addition to needing a good base fitness, which, as others have said, comes from putting the miles in, if you want to get better at MTB then there are a few areas you could work on.Core strength so anything from sit ups to free weights can help.
Explosive power exercises help with those short punchy techy climbs.
Flexibility and suppleness helps with on bike mobility.
General conditioning.
Your body will take much more punishment on an average trail ride than an average road ride so if you aren't conditioned to be strong, flexible and powerful you will fatigue quicker and easier.
I'm not a road biker but I can see the merits of it for getting the miles in. As a mountain biker though I know that its about more than fitness to be good. I know many people who are very fit but not very strong and simply can't sustain the power needed to ride quickly on challenging terrain.
ETA: Just read that you did a ride which was 26.3 miles and with 273ft climbing. Nothing wrong with that but a typical ride for me would be 17 miles and about 1700ft climbing.
My ride is naturally harder given the climbing figure so I would suggest making your ride harder by adding intervals; sustained periods of hard effort to tune your body into working harder. Of course, there is also the fact that climbing 1700ft means your body is doing more work physically so, as above, by adding in some strength training you should be able to supplement your riding with that.
Edited by snorkel sucker on Thursday 4th February 17:03
tjdixon911 said:
On an XC ride (bridal ways, footpaths, single track plus a few road sections), approx 25miles I'm averaging 12.5-13 mph - I am running a 1x10 set up with a 36t ring currently...
On solo rides of the same I'm probably 12-12.5mph, road can be anywhere between 16-18mph.
Have you considered the gearing might be the issue? On solo rides of the same I'm probably 12-12.5mph, road can be anywhere between 16-18mph.
I run a 36 chainring on my cyclocross bike and there was a long straight section last week where I was spinning like crazy going 25mph. Perhaps a bigger chainring will give you more speed on the straights?
okgo said:
snorkel sucker said:
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then 50-75 miles a week off road is a decent amount.
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
You can easily make a road bike ride as hard as you want, just ride harder. MTB isn't some dark art that defies physics you know. He said his brother rides away from him on the flat, ergo, he isn't fit enough. On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
ewenm said:
Ride more. 50-75 miles a week is a decent mileage for an aspiring runner; I'd imagine it's pretty low for aspiring cyclists.
All the other stuff is peripheral to getting fitter.
Yep, my regular commute is about that, as soon as I do any extra cycling I'm a lot stronger on the bike pretty much the next day.All the other stuff is peripheral to getting fitter.
Running and weights makes no noticeable difference.
nacnac said:
Alternatively if you think going to the gym, doing squats, increasing "strength" is the answer then fill your boots.
All the pro coaches I've heard from recommend exactly this + interval sessions.I'm yet to read a paper that recommends long distance running and cycling as the best and quickest means to increase speed/pace/strength.
Always happy to be educated though
pembo said:
Have you considered the gearing might be the issue?
I run a 36 chainring on my cyclocross bike and there was a long straight section last week where I was spinning like crazy going 25mph. Perhaps a bigger chainring will give you more speed on the straights?
Yes, I have considered this - my brother runs a double with a 38t outer so I am slightly under geared in comparison. I run a 36 chainring on my cyclocross bike and there was a long straight section last week where I was spinning like crazy going 25mph. Perhaps a bigger chainring will give you more speed on the straights?
I initially purchased a Narrow Wide 38t but it fouled the frame when running a SRAM crank, I've since changed to an XT crank which seems to have spaced the ring out further so maybe worth trying a 38t again (especially with Superstars offer this week...) - I sold the last one..
snorkel sucker said:
Well, in addition to needing a good base fitness, which, as others have said, comes from putting the miles in, if you want to get better at MTB then there are a few areas you could work on.
Core strength so anything from sit ups to free weights can help.
Explosive power exercises help with those short punchy techy climbs.
Flexibility and suppleness helps with on bike mobility.
General conditioning.
Your body will take much more punishment on an average trail ride than an average road ride so if you aren't conditioned to be strong, flexible and powerful you will fatigue quicker and easier.
I'm not a road biker but I can see the merits of it for getting the miles in. As a mountain biker though I know that its about more than fitness to be good. I know many people who are very fit but not very strong and simply can't sustain the power needed to ride quickly on challenging terrain.
ETA: Just read that you did a ride which was 26.3 miles and with 273ft climbing. Nothing wrong with that but a typical ride for me would be 17 miles and about 1700ft climbing.
My ride is naturally harder given the climbing figure so I would suggest making your ride harder by adding intervals; sustained periods of hard effort to tune your body into working harder. Of course, there is also the fact that climbing 1700ft means your body is doing more work physically so, as above, by adding in some strength training you should be able to supplement your riding with that.
Thanks - I have been trying to improve my Core Strength with Sit Ups etc. Have been considering getting some kettle weights to do something with weights also.. Core strength so anything from sit ups to free weights can help.
Explosive power exercises help with those short punchy techy climbs.
Flexibility and suppleness helps with on bike mobility.
General conditioning.
Your body will take much more punishment on an average trail ride than an average road ride so if you aren't conditioned to be strong, flexible and powerful you will fatigue quicker and easier.
I'm not a road biker but I can see the merits of it for getting the miles in. As a mountain biker though I know that its about more than fitness to be good. I know many people who are very fit but not very strong and simply can't sustain the power needed to ride quickly on challenging terrain.
ETA: Just read that you did a ride which was 26.3 miles and with 273ft climbing. Nothing wrong with that but a typical ride for me would be 17 miles and about 1700ft climbing.
My ride is naturally harder given the climbing figure so I would suggest making your ride harder by adding intervals; sustained periods of hard effort to tune your body into working harder. Of course, there is also the fact that climbing 1700ft means your body is doing more work physically so, as above, by adding in some strength training you should be able to supplement your riding with that.
Edited by snorkel sucker on Thursday 4th February 17:03
There is a 1.5-2mile loop locally that (for my area) has a long hill, I could repeat that a few times each ride..
frisbee said:
Yep, my regular commute is about that, as soon as I do any extra cycling I'm a lot stronger on the bike pretty much the next day.
Running and weights makes no noticeable difference.
I'm hoping to commute by bike a bit more when the days are longer, hopefully this will help over the summer period - I wouldn't fancy my commute during the winter months by bike though. Running and weights makes no noticeable difference.
This is the closest I have worked to home for a long time so need to make the most of it!
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