Another Cat D question.
Discussion
Is there any way of checking WHY a car has been classified as a Cat D in the past, the seller I'm talking to says he doesn't know why as it happened before he bought the car. He's not tried to hide the fact that it is a Cat D but I'd just like to know why so I know what to be checking for.
The usual method is to talk to previous owners (you can trace them through the V5/paperwork/DVLA)
Some of the 'HPI' services can tell you WHEN a category was applied, which might help narrow that down.
I always say that the Cat itself is not really an issue because loads of cars are running around having taken a LOT more damage than many Cat C/D cars but without the Cat, so you inspect all cars "as if" anyway - obvious accident repairs will be obvious, anything you can't find, probably doesn't matter.
Do not underestimate how AWFUL it is to try to sell a Catted car tho - it's not just that they're worth less (often a lot less) but that selling them can take eons and involve a HUGE amount of wasted time and money. My attitude is "buy Catted cars only if you intend to drive them into the ground"
Also - check insurance costs, the Cat often makes insurers run amok and ask for scary sums
GL and think hard - and bargain harder...
Some of the 'HPI' services can tell you WHEN a category was applied, which might help narrow that down.
I always say that the Cat itself is not really an issue because loads of cars are running around having taken a LOT more damage than many Cat C/D cars but without the Cat, so you inspect all cars "as if" anyway - obvious accident repairs will be obvious, anything you can't find, probably doesn't matter.
Do not underestimate how AWFUL it is to try to sell a Catted car tho - it's not just that they're worth less (often a lot less) but that selling them can take eons and involve a HUGE amount of wasted time and money. My attitude is "buy Catted cars only if you intend to drive them into the ground"
Also - check insurance costs, the Cat often makes insurers run amok and ask for scary sums
GL and think hard - and bargain harder...
Norfolkit said:
If he does know he's not saying, could be telling the truth or lying his arse off, I've got no way of knowing. I just wondered if the was a way of checking on some sort of insurer database somewhere.
Data Protection makes this difficult - Insurers won't hand-over details on previous claims or policyholders, they often won't even confirm if a car you're asking to insure even HAS a Cat!!Also - for the record - whilst Cat D normally means cosmetic damage, insurers are not consistent with this. I've seen Cat Cs with a few scratches/a broken light and Cat D's which were 2' shorter than they should have been!!
405dogvan said:
Also - for the record - whilst Cat D normally means cosmetic damage, insurers are not consistent with this.
Once again, Cat D has nothing whatsoever to do with cosmetic damage. Why do people keep propagating this?Car are given Cat C or D markers based purely on the a finances of repairing them vs the value of the car, so a Cat D marker on a newer, higher value car implies the damage was likely more than cosmetic. A Cat D on an old banger could be a dent in the rear quarter.
Mr2Mike said:
405dogvan said:
Also - for the record - whilst Cat D normally means cosmetic damage, insurers are not consistent with this.
Once again, Cat D has nothing whatsoever to do with cosmetic damage. Why do people keep propagating this?Car are given Cat C or D markers based purely on the a finances of repairing them vs the value of the car, so a Cat D marker on a newer, higher value car implies the damage was likely more than cosmetic. A Cat D on an old banger could be a dent in the rear quarter.
What I know for an absolute solid fact is that that it's almost entirely random and nothing to do with age/value or repair cost. I've seen same age/make/model cars in the same salvage auction with one a 'C' for a light-front hit and one a 'D' for being totalled at both ends!
p.s. the whole idea of 'C' and 'D' being based on age/value is particularly stupid given the difficulty you'll have finding the DATE the Cat was applied???
For the record, I think any Catted car should have a mandatory repair record on it's MOT history, but they can't even pull-up clockers so I guess that's a pipedream...
OP, based on what you say I think you just need to go into it (or not!) with your eyes open!
If you aren't comfortable dealing with it as seen then maybe a Cat D isn't for you! (Even if it may appear to be cheap for what it is)!
At the end of the day you generally tend to get what you pay for..........
If you aren't comfortable dealing with it as seen then maybe a Cat D isn't for you! (Even if it may appear to be cheap for what it is)!
At the end of the day you generally tend to get what you pay for..........
405dogvan said:
Do not underestimate how AWFUL it is to try to sell a Catted car tho - it's not just that they're worth less (often a lot less) but that selling them can take eons and involve a HUGE amount of wasted time and money. My attitude is "buy Catted cars only if you intend to drive them into the ground"
This.Should be stickied somewhere.
Norfolkit said:
If he does know he's not saying, could be telling the truth or lying his arse off, I've got no way of knowing. I just wondered if the was a way of checking on some sort of insurer database somewhere.
There is, MIAFTR.But you need to have access and even then most insurers don't fill it in correctly, for what it's worth the this is how the damage on there is recorded.
Very basic, only the actual insurer and their contracted agents who dealt with the car will know the damage (estimates etc) and I suppose whoever crashed and bought the car.
J4CKO said:
Denis O said:
This
was a CAT D
Thats what they look like before they have the panels put back on.
was a CAT D
Not sure of the point you are making, it obviously needed a bumper, lights, front panel, wings and a bonnet.
Well done you for detecting that damage is nothing more than a few panels, from a photograph.
Denis O said:
J4CKO said:
Denis O said:
This
was a CAT D
Thats what they look like before they have the panels put back on.was a CAT D
Not sure of the point you are making, it obviously needed a bumper, lights, front panel, wings and a bonnet.
Well done you for detecting that damage is nothing more than a few panels, from a photograph.
This was also a Cat D.....
And yes that little dent was the extent of the damage and it was (damage aside), the most pampered, pristine example for its age.
I've bought and sold literally hundreds of Cat C and D cars from KAs to Ferraris and never had an issue at all. As a restoration bodyshop owner though, I only ever buy them damaged and repair them myself and make sure the repair is comprehensively documented with photos etc. I have bought the occasional already repaired cars if they've been too good to turn down at the price, but it's very rare.
There are cars damaged 1000 times worse than that other MINI that won't be recorded on the register and put back on the road. Indeed, if you look at the salvage auctions every week like I do, even there you get quite substantially damaged cars that aren't on the register and barely scraped Cat C and Cat D cars.
The difference between Cat D and Cat C is that a Cat D vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 50% of the lowest market value of the car. A Cat C vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 100% of the lowest market value of the car. Not forgetting that on top of the repair estimate, the insurance company will add on any cost of recovery, storage etc, plus their costs, plus quotes generally include for only new, genuine parts, which in the case of a high-end sports/prestige car, a minor front end battle scar means a new bonnet, which is it's large and made out of aluminium is mega money. So are fancy, adapative, active xenon headlights, bumpers etc etc...
And yes that little dent was the extent of the damage and it was (damage aside), the most pampered, pristine example for its age.
I've bought and sold literally hundreds of Cat C and D cars from KAs to Ferraris and never had an issue at all. As a restoration bodyshop owner though, I only ever buy them damaged and repair them myself and make sure the repair is comprehensively documented with photos etc. I have bought the occasional already repaired cars if they've been too good to turn down at the price, but it's very rare.
There are cars damaged 1000 times worse than that other MINI that won't be recorded on the register and put back on the road. Indeed, if you look at the salvage auctions every week like I do, even there you get quite substantially damaged cars that aren't on the register and barely scraped Cat C and Cat D cars.
The difference between Cat D and Cat C is that a Cat D vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 50% of the lowest market value of the car. A Cat C vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 100% of the lowest market value of the car. Not forgetting that on top of the repair estimate, the insurance company will add on any cost of recovery, storage etc, plus their costs, plus quotes generally include for only new, genuine parts, which in the case of a high-end sports/prestige car, a minor front end battle scar means a new bonnet, which is it's large and made out of aluminium is mega money. So are fancy, adapative, active xenon headlights, bumpers etc etc...
strada84 said:
The difference between Cat D and Cat C is that a Cat D vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 50% of the lowest market value of the car. A Cat C vehicle is one where the repair estimate exceeds 100% of the lowest market value of the car. Not forgetting that on top of the repair estimate, the insurance company will add on any cost of recovery, storage etc, plus their costs, plus quotes generally include for only new, genuine parts, which in the case of a high-end sports/prestige car, a minor front end battle scar means a new bonnet, which is it's large and made out of aluminium is mega money. So are fancy, adapative, active xenon headlights, bumpers etc etc...
It's worth noting that this isn't the same for all insurance companies, some don't take into account storage etcDo remember in a non fault situation One insurer has to recover losses from the TP insurer, if a car is repairable but they total loss because of storage costs then they haven't mitigated the losses and may not make a full recovery.
Generally the decision to repair a car is separate to the other costs of the claim.
Silly thing is that the more value in the car the less likely a Cat D write off is.
New cars are more likely to be repaired than older cars due to the value vs cost of repair. So lots of the cars you are looking at as used could all have had the same damage as the worst Cat D's but were deemed economical to repair and are back on the road with no markers.
New cars are more likely to be repaired than older cars due to the value vs cost of repair. So lots of the cars you are looking at as used could all have had the same damage as the worst Cat D's but were deemed economical to repair and are back on the road with no markers.
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