Neighbourly Relations

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Thorodin

Original Poster:

2,459 posts

132 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Sorry for the length, I thought the full picture might be helpful:

My new (elderly) neighbours are becoming a problem. They moved in two years ago and, with their three sons (who are not living there), gutted the place, a semi-detached bungalow. The usual noise and multiple skips were a permanent fixture but we thought ok, they are entitled and we want to remain on good terms.

Then they built a raised deck, about three feet of the ground, from which they had uninterrupted view right into our bedroom. This happened when we went on hols for a fortnight, they had asked us when we were actually going too, so it seemed just a bit planned. I asked him if he had applied for any planning consents or guidance and he said no, it didn’t need it. All contact had been most amicable up to this point.

I wasn’t happy and went to the council office to ask what to do, taking photos and measurements including heights and dimensions etc. Planning Officer said it contravened building regs and retrospective permission should be sought. Had a quiet chat with him, it was courteous as ever and I didn’t mention I had been to the council, he is by nature non-committal, and told him it was unreasonable and intrusive and he should see the council.

His sons turned up and we had a, er, chat, and they amended the structure to only just come into sensible-land. Turns out they are a building firm with another council’s contracts and with precise knowledge of planning and regs.

Relationships then changed and we were blanked on every occasion, a studied silence now prevails. They (three sons) have now been working in the loft for a month with many 8x4 plaster and ply sheets, insulation boards. Loads of joists and battens and two Velux windows, seems like several rooms-worth. Can anyone tell me if planning permission is need for habitable rooms up there, other than for storage? Don’t want to make a poor situation worse but can’t help thinking a liberty is being taken by those that should know better. We’ve lived here 12 years now and this is a blight. Thanks.

505diff

507 posts

242 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Go back to the council and ask, it could fall under permitted development, is the semi attached to your bunglow, if it is work in the loft would I suspect come under the party wall act, so would need your consent before work starts

N Dentressangle

3,442 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Move house.

These guys (or their sons, more likely) don't care about you or how you feel. You'll never feel 'safe' there again, without wondering what's planned next.

Most people on here will urge you to stay and fight, but for me life's just too short to waste time on aholes.

Little Lofty

3,275 posts

150 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
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Lofts very rarely need planning but always need building regs and sometimes a party wall agreement. Tbh other than checking that they have applied for building regs there's not really anything you can do about it I'm afraid.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
What a pain in the Arse.

Have you looked on the planning portal? Gives you a good basic understanding
Also another good indicator is have other houses in the street done the same or not? If yes then it's probably fine if none then ... Why has no one else done it yet? Why do old people need rooms in the loft of a bungalow eating up space downstairs putting in a staircase?

I'd be documenting everything dates times etc - takes you no time to do but that and pics are powerful evidence if needed.

I'd also do what's required to re build neighbourly relations. Even if it's painful to you to do so if it pays off job well done. V

I'd say selling is a huge step - and costly to you and why should you. I'd only consider this if it was putting stress on you.
Personally we elected to move from our last house simply due to the area - our neighbours were fine but the rented tennants in the close were sts. We stayed for 3 years and only noticed the issue probably into the second year our mind was made up and we were into this house by the end of that year. 7 odd years later it's been bliss the whole time. Neighbours are great all round - a nice mix young old and all sorts of backgrounds.
I personally cannot state how good for you a great neighbourhood is (we arrange an annual street golf tournament great fun even though some cannot play at all)

Ian Geary

4,462 posts

191 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
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Welshbeef said:
we arrange an annual street golf tournament
Street golf, eh? Sounds interesting...tell us more!

Thorodin

Original Poster:

2,459 posts

132 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. We moved here 12 years ago as our final move, we are elderly too, and things were peaceful at last.

We moved from a hell hole of a drunkard's route from several boozers to the bus routes etc. The public behaviour and damage was just shocking. We found this place by accident, I did a fair sized job three doors away (I was a stained glass craftsman in business) and this place became vacant when the owners took a job in Scotland. Couldn't believe my luck, we thought we were settled.

It's a nice small 1930's estate of bungalows, some semis and some detached with bags of character. Two (out of 40) have rooms in the roof. We can't face moving again at our time of life and would prefer to get on with our neighbours. We think they are private l'lords with a portfolio and developing for multi-occupancy to sell on or let. The two places are attached as semis. They have been working in there continually for two years now. Their vehicles have their company advertising on them with details of the inner London borough they contract for. It's depressing and a worrying time but we appreciate people should be able to do what they want in their own home. Needs careful handling I think.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Ian Geary said:
Welshbeef said:
we arrange an annual street golf tournament
Street golf, eh? Sounds interesting...tell us more!
Lol I meant we go to one of the local clubs usually upwards of 20 attend/I think most really try to go so golf then Baber and BBQ.

CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
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Maybe they're going to flog it once they've done it up and move on.

N Dentressangle

3,442 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Thorodin said:
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. We moved here 12 years ago as our final move, we are elderly too, and things were peaceful at last.

We moved from a hell hole of a drunkard's route from several boozers to the bus routes etc. The public behaviour and damage was just shocking. We found this place by accident, I did a fair sized job three doors away (I was a stained glass craftsman in business) and this place became vacant when the owners took a job in Scotland. Couldn't believe my luck, we thought we were settled.

It's a nice small 1930's estate of bungalows, some semis and some detached with bags of character. Two (out of 40) have rooms in the roof. We can't face moving again at our time of life and would prefer to get on with our neighbours. We think they are private l'lords with a portfolio and developing for multi-occupancy to sell on or let. The two places are attached as semis. They have been working in there continually for two years now. Their vehicles have their company advertising on them with details of the inner London borough they contract for. It's depressing and a worrying time but we appreciate people should be able to do what they want in their own home. Needs careful handling I think.
I feel for you - you're in a rotten spot.

You're probably right about your neighbours' intentions. Unfortunately, if they really are multiple BTL landlords, they won't care less about you, and building 'neighbourly relations' will be impossible - they won't be interested, as you've seen.

On the plus side:

1. They might get some nice, long term tenants in who you do get on with
2. They might sell up

It's a shame the law offers very little protection against people like your neighbours.

Bill

52,479 posts

254 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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Agreed with the suggestions they're knobs who won't care what you think who are doing it up to sell. I wonder if the parents are living in it so there's no capital gains to pay. (Ie they buy, sons do it up - who pays for this bit? They then sell and pocket the profit tax free that they can transfer to the sons without duty if they live another 7 yrs, assuming it even registers for death duty.) You might yet have the last laugh when the revenue take a good look.

(Or I might be over thinking things... biggrin )

Dr Doofenshmirtz

15,185 posts

199 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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Establish a tall boarder between your pad and theirs? With some stratigically plants trees to block them out?
A few years and you won't know they're there ( the neighbours).

megaphone

10,694 posts

250 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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Thorodin said:
It's a nice small 1930's estate of bungalows, some semis and some detached with bags of character. Two (out of 40) have rooms in the roof.
Unfortunately, if it's anything like where my mum lives, this will change. Similar street of semi and detached bungalows. Currently 4 are being worked on, all having loft conversions, hideous dormer boxes bolted on the rear. Two others, that already have lofts, are having rear GF extensions. Lorries, noise, scaffolds over bungalows, skips in streets, it's never ending.

I'd say about a third of the bungalows have now been converted, as the old residents die developers are buying and 'adding value'. Younger families now moving in, extra cars and kids, parking is now becoming an issue.

There appears no restrictions any more on what people can do, permitted development is all wrong.

Edited by megaphone on Friday 29th July 08:25

Harry Flashman

19,283 posts

241 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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BlueHave said:
Your neighbour sounds like a right knob end but seems like the kind you could easily tell to just 'do one'. My neighbour on the other hand is one of the sneaky play the victim type of nutters. He is about 60, a complete curtain twitcher and claims to be a Christian (yea right) and told one of the other neighbours he hates anyone under the age of 40.

He started complaining about major things such as me putting out my bin at 7pm on a Spring evening (shock horror). Then he complained about the noise of closing my own gate at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.Then he subtlety put one of those rubber stoppers on my gate when I was out which I firmly ripped off. Then he complained I was making clicking noises outside his house at 4am, and despite insisting I had better things to do, like sleep and get up for work, he insisted it was me. Final straw came when he accused me of playing gospel music in through his window at 2am. I neither listen to gospel music nor do I have any liking of it.

I snapped and went to his door, he came out laughing before slamming the door in my face. ( remember he claims to be a servant of god)

I even had a massive fence and gate built because every time I went into my back garden he would come out and stick his head through my trees and check in his shed. Like he thought i was tampering with them.

He's now developed this habit of coming out and looking under his car everytime I'm outside and says 'hello' only when other neighbour are around, which when I ignore him makes it appear that i'm the knobend.

A complete nutter.

Your neighbour sounds great in comparison.

Edited by BlueHave on Friday 29th July 03:59


Edited by BlueHave on Friday 29th July 04:00
I'd have some serious fun with this chap. He clearly has a sense of humour - turn it back in him!

8-P

2,756 posts

259 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
How frustrating, I feel for you. I suspect in time, it will settle down, they will stop building and your life may continue as normal.

I have a lunatic over the road from us, everything from his crazy house modification to mental planting, 4 locks on his gate, signs up on his fence, driving like an utter tool with latest dance music pumping from his Astra. Although I think WTF whenever I look at his house/him Ive decided to be mega friendly and go with the keep your friends close and your enemies closer tactic.

He has his house for sale but its about 100k over priced and hes turned it into a Frankenstein house so its hardly going to sell soon. Shame.

PAULJ5555

3,554 posts

175 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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Sounds to me at some point they will add a dorma to the roof which will over look your garden.


Thorodin

Original Poster:

2,459 posts

132 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Bill said:
Agreed with the suggestions they're knobs who won't care what you think who are doing it up to sell. I wonder if the parents are living in it so there's no capital gains to pay. (Ie they buy, sons do it up - who pays for this bit? They then sell and pocket the profit tax free that they can transfer to the sons without duty if they live another 7 yrs, assuming it even registers for death duty.) You might yet have the last laugh when the revenue take a good look.

(Or I might be over thinking things... biggrin )
Grateful for all these replies but this one struck a chord and prompts what I hadn't thought of previously.
The elderly couple who we originally thought were the owners do sleep here but only about three nights a week - their car goes missing for two or three days on end every week - and one of the son's vans is permanently parked on the drive. I haven't got a problem with their tax planning, that's none of my business, and don't want to 'not get on' with anybody. Also not really concerned about overlooking the garden, it's a garden and we aren't naturists. Well, not these days anyway. Maybe they will sell to a larger family and add to general mix.


Edited by Thorodin on Friday 29th July 13:56

R6VED

1,365 posts

139 months

Monday 1st August 2016
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I am sorry to hear about your woes and hopes it improves.

I noticed you mentioned your trade and as such I wonder if you ever cam across a Peter London on your travels (he was Master of the Glaziers at one point)?

Charlie

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Monday 1st August 2016
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I'm not trying to come across as antagonistic, and I understand the issues you have with the decking and being overlooked, but what is the problem to you if they are doing a loft conversion? Once the inevitable noise etc of the building work is done I can't see that it will make much or any difference to your house or living arrangements. You can approach the council to see if planning is needed or has been obtained, and they will probably require Building Regs to sign off on various aspects of the construction work too, so you could check that this has been done.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
megaphone said:
Thorodin said:
It's a nice small 1930's estate of bungalows, some semis and some detached with bags of character. Two (out of 40) have rooms in the roof.
Unfortunately, if it's anything like where my mum lives, this will change. Similar street of semi and detached bungalows. Currently 4 are being worked on, all having loft conversions, hideous dormer boxes bolted on the rear. Two others, that already have lofts, are having rear GF extensions. Lorries, noise, scaffolds over bungalows, skips in streets, it's never ending.

I'd say about a third of the bungalows have now been converted, as the old residents die developers are buying and 'adding value'. Younger families now moving in, extra cars and kids, parking is now becoming an issue.

There appears no restrictions any more on what people can do, permitted development is all wrong.
Same happening around me (Bedford), many many 70's bungalows being developed and having extra floors or dormers added. I guess house prices have got to a point that it's well worth it, and also these 70's buildings have decent sized rooms and plots unlike the local rabbit-hutch new stuff.