Would you buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia?
Discussion
The "common" cars thread the other day got me thinking. People, especially BMW 3-Series drivers often justify their choice as there is no viable alternative in that class and at that price point if you want RWD and well balanced handling. There are now two viable alternatives (Alfa Giulia and Jaguar XE). So, if you were in the market for that type of car, would you take a flutter on the new Alfa or stick with the safe choice?
I think that I probably would give the Alfa chance but my main concern is depreciation. I can see both the diesel and the "halo" models being very good buys at 1-2 years old. I hear that the diesels aren't as refined and possibly not as economical as the German opposition but in reality, how much difference would that really make? For an Alfa, I don't think it looks that great either. Not any worse than a 3-Series/A4/C-Class but not stunning like a 156 or 159 either. The side profile looks very 3-Series, the rear Audi A4 and the front all Alfa but not their best effort IMHO. The Quadrifoglio looks a lot better but I'm surprised that the range goes from a 150 or 180 bhp diesel and then jumps to a 510bhp V6 turbo! I'm sure it's a great car but I'm not sure whether the market is quite ready for a 60k Alfa saloon. A cut price 340i/S4 rival might have been a more pragmatic approach and then bring out the big guns a bit later when the cheaper versions have been around a bit longer and gained some credibility.
So, would you go for the genuine alternative: it has the right badge, the right driven wheels and by all accounts a great chassis or stick with the "safer" more established options?
I think that I probably would give the Alfa chance but my main concern is depreciation. I can see both the diesel and the "halo" models being very good buys at 1-2 years old. I hear that the diesels aren't as refined and possibly not as economical as the German opposition but in reality, how much difference would that really make? For an Alfa, I don't think it looks that great either. Not any worse than a 3-Series/A4/C-Class but not stunning like a 156 or 159 either. The side profile looks very 3-Series, the rear Audi A4 and the front all Alfa but not their best effort IMHO. The Quadrifoglio looks a lot better but I'm surprised that the range goes from a 150 or 180 bhp diesel and then jumps to a 510bhp V6 turbo! I'm sure it's a great car but I'm not sure whether the market is quite ready for a 60k Alfa saloon. A cut price 340i/S4 rival might have been a more pragmatic approach and then bring out the big guns a bit later when the cheaper versions have been around a bit longer and gained some credibility.
So, would you go for the genuine alternative: it has the right badge, the right driven wheels and by all accounts a great chassis or stick with the "safer" more established options?
With my own money no way would I buy a brand new Alfa or Jaguar due to poor residuals however if it was a company cars scheme I would drive them and chose the one that drives best..
I suppose if you are just hiring/renting it on finance or pcp and then handing it back then if they were all he same monthly cost Id drive each and take the nicest one to drive.
Paying my own cash for an Alfa Id wait till it was 18 months + old and had dropped in value. I remember my lovely Alfa 75 TS bought that at just over 2 yrs old for £2300 ( was high mileage and no one wanted it at 100k even with fsh).
I suppose if you are just hiring/renting it on finance or pcp and then handing it back then if they were all he same monthly cost Id drive each and take the nicest one to drive.
Paying my own cash for an Alfa Id wait till it was 18 months + old and had dropped in value. I remember my lovely Alfa 75 TS bought that at just over 2 yrs old for £2300 ( was high mileage and no one wanted it at 100k even with fsh).
k no. Every Alfa I owned was riddled with major issues. Seen the high end Giulia at FoS and was shocked to see cheep parts all over it i.e. Vents on the wings are embarrassing quality
The Alfa reliability thing is well over done. Depreciation - well, the 159 held its value pretty well and I don't recall the 156 being a complete disaster.
Would I choose a QV over an M3? Sure. The only worry would be locking myself into long term ownership of a 500 HP car, which will be inevitably expensive to run and eventually tiring to drive.
If i was leasing I'd only be looking at the size of the payments.
What I'll probably do is get a QV at 4 or 5 years old. I can rebuild pretty much anything so the maintenance risks don't frighten me in the slightest.
Would I choose a QV over an M3? Sure. The only worry would be locking myself into long term ownership of a 500 HP car, which will be inevitably expensive to run and eventually tiring to drive.
If i was leasing I'd only be looking at the size of the payments.
What I'll probably do is get a QV at 4 or 5 years old. I can rebuild pretty much anything so the maintenance risks don't frighten me in the slightest.
Yes, I would buy a Giulia. If I was looking for that sort of car I would test back to back with an XE, and choose which one I preferred. I certainly prefer the Giulias looks.
Personally, I think these two (XE and the Alfa) and that both Mercedes and BMW are now offering all wheel drive versions of their ordinary cars make Audi even more irrelevant in this class - the only one not offering RWD. Okay, that doesn't matter to most but I find them incredibly under engineered, over styled, overpriced and chintzy for what they are - basically a re-skinned VW/Seat (delete where applicable) with a bit more tech and perceived quality.
The new Alfa to me really is a step in the right direction for the segment as well as the XE. It will make BMW try even harder and they were pretty much faultless already with the 3-Series before.
Personally, I think these two (XE and the Alfa) and that both Mercedes and BMW are now offering all wheel drive versions of their ordinary cars make Audi even more irrelevant in this class - the only one not offering RWD. Okay, that doesn't matter to most but I find them incredibly under engineered, over styled, overpriced and chintzy for what they are - basically a re-skinned VW/Seat (delete where applicable) with a bit more tech and perceived quality.
The new Alfa to me really is a step in the right direction for the segment as well as the XE. It will make BMW try even harder and they were pretty much faultless already with the 3-Series before.
Kierkegaard said:
... - basically a re-skinned VW/Seat (delete where applicable) with a bit more tech and perceived quality.
The platform the current A4 is based on isn't used on an VW/Skoda/Seat branded cars; the only other brand to use it is Porsche. I wouldn't buy an A4, but to call them reskinned VWs is simply wrong.
I love Alfa's - I used to buy them new and have owned 4, from heavily discounted imported stock (many years ago when this made financial sense!) Nowadays, I would lease an Alfa Giulia if the price was right (which it is not so far, compared to Merc's and Bimmers) but a purchase would be a crusin to a brusin, so to speak and sad to say.
kambites said:
Kierkegaard said:
... - basically a re-skinned VW/Seat (delete where applicable) with a bit more tech and perceived quality.
The platform the current A4 is based on isn't used on an VW/Skoda/Seat branded cars; the only other brand to use it is Porsche. I wouldn't buy an A4, but to call them reskinned VWs is simply wrong.
The new A4 is still a VW Group platform and by definition will always be - something the other two German 'rivals' don't have issues with. It's a contrived set-up. What I'm saying is Audi can't compete, although they obviously do from a marketing point of view, with Mercedes and BMW in terms of this segments drivetrain. You buy an A4 - it will have some switchgear and more than likely an engine that will be used in a VW or Seat (or Skoda) - that is a fact. Historically, the A4 has shared it's chassis with VW equivalent but even if it doesn't it will always be FWD (obviously not with quattro editions).
We will never see a FWD C-Class or 3-Series. And yes, I realise that the next 1-Series may be FWD...
Kierkegaard said:
The new A4 is still a VW Group platform and by definition will always be
Well yes, but so is the 911. That doesn't make it a bad car or a "reskinned VW". It's been quite a long time since there has been a VW based on the same platform as an Audi A4; the Seat Exeo was more recent but that was only after Audi had stopped using the B7 platform. There have been Chryslers based on Merc platforms since there has been a VW based on the A4's one. Does that make the E-class "just a reskinned Chrysler" and hence not worthy or comparison to the 5-series?
Don't get me wrong, I don't particualrly like the A4. I just disagree with your reason for not liking it.
ETA: Also I suspect we will see a FWD 3-series, probably the generation after next. The only way I can see it staying RWD for longer than that is if it goes fully electric (which is, of course, possible).
Edited by kambites on Thursday 24th November 20:09
kambites said:
Kierkegaard said:
The new A4 is still a VW Group platform and by definition will always be
Well yes, but so is the 911. That doesn't make it a bad car or a "reskinned VW". It's been quite a long time since there has been a VW based on the same platform as an Audi A4; the Seat Exeo was more recent but that was only after Audi had stopped using the B7 platform.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th November 19:56
Does the current (or any recent) 911 used an engine that was available in a Seat or a Skoda? No is the answer you were looking for - same with the chassis. And I like Seats I've owned some before and Audis for that matter.
At no point did I say the A4 was a 'bad car' I simply said it shouldn't be - to my opinion at least - in this segment. Probably in the same way an Alfa 159 shouldn't have been in it - another car I like btw. But we've moved on. The Audi A4 is now back of the pack IMO - think about it; how many people have said if Alfa Romeo could make a RWD compact saloon they wouldn't even look at the 3-Series, that 'could' be close to reality with the Giulia. Take Jaguar as well...it's all very well basing your new X-Type on the Ford Mondeo chassis, but if people know this people won't buy - the XE? Genius, a geniune 3-Series rival. The A4 has, and always will be, in the 3-Series shadow in terms of absolute class-leading handling. Doesn't matter if it's based on a VW or not!
Sorry, I thought we were discussing platforms. You are of course right that Audi use generic VAG engines, if that's important to you. Of course the 3-series shares engines with the MINI and I have vague memories that the C-class uses some Peugeot engines?
I agree that the A4 is very much bottom of the pack of current compact execs, although I can see why people buy them.
I agree that the A4 is very much bottom of the pack of current compact execs, although I can see why people buy them.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 24th November 20:14
kambites said:
Kierkegaard said:
The new A4 is still a VW Group platform and by definition will always be
There have been Chryslers based on Merc platforms since there has been a VW based on the A4's one. Does that make the E-class "just a reskinned Chrysler" and hence not worthy or comparison to the 5-series?Don't get me wrong, I don't particualrly like the A4. I just disagree with your reason for not liking it.
ETA: Also I suspect we will see a FWD 3-series, probably the generation after next. The only way I can see it staying RWD for longer than that is if it goes fully electric (which is, of course, possible).
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th November 20:09
Well that's ironic. You don't like the A4 but are defending it and I do and arguing against it...
Trust me the 3-Series won't be FWD. Hell will freeze over. It's been the USP - well, in my eyes and some others, since conception. I agree some buyers/drivers won't know/care about that but it doesn't matter. The 1-Series, fine. But not the 3.
You may be right actually because there probably wont be an internal combustion engine available in the 3-series in fifteen years time which makes the cost/packaging saving of FWD a moot point.
Anyway this is a bit of a moot point really with respect to the original topic. The Alfa isn't going to get close to the sales figure of any of the 3-series, C-class or A4.
Anyway this is a bit of a moot point really with respect to the original topic. The Alfa isn't going to get close to the sales figure of any of the 3-series, C-class or A4.
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