997.2 GT3 track car suspension

[bryce86]

Dedicated track car, not for road use ever, at the Nurburgring.

Would you change the suspension, to what, and why?

[Porsche911R]

That must be a question for the driver of said car and what he/she does already not like about the oem set up.

If said driver is happy then change nothing.

997.2 is a step on from 997.1 PASM for sure as PASM on is less bouncy on the gen 2 cars.

but after market there are loads
I am a tweaker and love to dial in a bit of rebound/bump etc, some people hate touching it.
But you can set up a car far better to your driving stye, or have a dry/wet config.

Bilstein Clubsport Suspension
Ohlins
JRZ
KW
EXE tc

all will say their own are the best as will owners of each.

[noneedtolift]

I changed to a KW (both on a MKI and a MKII)Clubsport as I was doing a fair amount of track work. The car changed quite dramatically in a way that it was easier to extract more from it with less fuss - in essence it became quite a bit easier to drive and hence inspired more confidence. This will make you faster but don't expect to shave second's off your lap time.

The expense is only really worth it if you can set it up properly yourself or have someone who does it for you. The OE suspension is really really good so in my opinion it is also a good idea to stick to the proven manufacturers.

[hondansx]

Surely Manthey are worth talking to as 'Ring experts.

[LaSource]

hondansx said:

Surely Manthey are worth talking to as 'Ring experts.

Agreed. Though the answer is very likely to be KW V3 or KW Clubsport as that is part of their package.


I get the sense though that one does not need to change the suspension for the ring during the learning curve...its not really like a GP circuit. Of course, once you are a mature ring warrior you will benefit from better suspension but if that was the case you would not need to be asking here
(Sorry do not mean to sound like smart alec, but my point was stock car (with better brakes) should be fine until you are getting into sub 8 type pace)


However, if I have misunderstood at you are already at an experienced level of pace at the ring, then I agree Manthey a good place to start. Personally I have a deep preference for 3-way Nitrons though that is based on circuit use as well.

Edited by LaSource on Monday 28th November 12:29

[bryce86]

Thanks lads. I am sure that the oe suspension is more than capable versus my ability however there are characteristics with the car that I do not like. Albeit they can probably be well dialled out by someone in the know. There's also that mod bug in me that likes to tinker and make it more my own.

I would absolutely have it (new suspension) set up by someone who knows and more than likely that will be by a resident garage at Nurburg. I've emailed a few of the specialists - Manthey, GetSpeed, Frikadelli but its also good to get the opinions of those that have nothing to gain.

By no means am I racing driver but I like to think I can still feel the benefit of new parts. I am also sub 8 since you asked.

[Pip1968]

I go regularly to the Nordschleife and currently have an Ohlin set up but will be putting a KW set up on before next season. I am no expert though and therefore not pushing sub 8 minutes but love the place. Manthey cannot be that far wrong with their ongoing success and KW set up.

Let us know how you get on.

Pip

[isaldiri]

Pip1968 said:

I go regularly to the Nordschleife and currently have an Ohlin set up but will be putting a KW set up on before next season. I am no expert though and therefore not pushing sub 8 minutes but love the place. Manthey cannot be that far wrong with their ongoing success and KW set up.

Let us know how you get on.

Pip

There's ohlins and there are ohlins....;) if you have ttx on your car then getting a good suspension person to get it properly setup (revalve with the spring rate required) would be imo much better than going the KW route whether for the ring or otherwise. I'd match the damping you want to your driving personally than going to Mantheys as they might very well give you something that is potentially really quick but not as drivable as you might want.

[LaSource]

bryce86 said:

Thanks lads. I am sure that the oe suspension is more than capable versus my ability however there are characteristics with the car that I do not like. Albeit they can probably be well dialled out by someone in the know. There's also that mod bug in me that likes to tinker and make it more my own.

I would absolutely have it (new suspension) set up by someone who knows and more than likely that will be by a resident garage at Nurburg. I've emailed a few of the specialists - Manthey, GetSpeed, Frikadelli but its also good to get the opinions of those that have nothing to gain.

By no means am I racing driver but I like to think I can still feel the benefit of new parts. I am also sub 8 since you asked.

Haha. So you are not a beginner. Right, yes in that case plenty of options and yes, you will feel the difference

Must say I have in the past found suspension options a little frustrating since typically no single person has tried multiple models and therefore everyone talks to their own experience - same with the garages who all have ties with particular manufacturers...and typically if you ask different people/garages, each will recommend a different top 3 list and 'unrecommend' a different bottom 3, plus they will contradict each other!

But good luck
Can't really go wrong with Manthey at the ring

[ttdan]

I think you ought to work out what's wrong or what you perceive to be wrong with it before fiddling about. There's so much to learn there before even thinking about swapping suspension about. And the std set up is good for some very quick laps already....

[Fl0pp3r]

Yep, we've been having a bit of a natter about 997.2 GT3 suspension aftermarket options from about page 2 on this thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

As a gen2 owner myself, I am currently inclined to try the TPS DSC PASM module first in conjunction with the standard suspension, and see how much of an improvement this is. After that, a decent passive setup via Ohlins TTX/JRZ/KW would appear to be the way forward - but I'm still not sold on how this upgrade would leave the car in terms of road comfort (which is why Porsche went adaptive in the first place).

Happy trails!

[isaldiri]

Fl0pp3r said:

After that, a decent passive setup via Ohlins TTX/JRZ/KW would appear to be the way forward - but I'm still not sold on how this upgrade would leave the car in terms of road comfort (which is why Porsche went adaptive in the first place).

Cost is almost certainly the real reason why Porsche went the adaptive route. The cost of the PASM damper compared to one of the top quality units (those with remote reservoirs) says it all I'd say. Nevermind the time taken to setup and fine tune the dual spring setup as per slippydiff suggestion which imo really would let one combine road/track usage, especially if in-cabin suspension controllers are available now for some of the high end units.

[ttdan]

isaldiri said:

Fl0pp3r said:

After that, a decent passive setup via Ohlins TTX/JRZ/KW would appear to be the way forward - but I'm still not sold on how this upgrade would leave the car in terms of road comfort (which is why Porsche went adaptive in the first place).

Cost is almost certainly the real reason why Porsche went the adaptive route. The cost of the PASM damper compared to one of the top quality units (those with remote reservoirs) says it all I'd say. Nevermind the time taken to setup and fine tune the dual spring setup as per slippydiff suggestion which imo really would let one combine road/track usage, especially if in-cabin suspension controllers are available now for some of the high end units.

Not so sure. Porsche use the PASM thing to market their cars with a sense of dual purpose or at least a reasonable compromise. It's cheaper for them to fit a passive set up. Top quality after market is there certainly but you could buy a cup car and still upgrade the suspension I suspect. It's less about cost and more about looking innovative and using that as a marketable plus.

[isaldiri]

ttdan said:

Not so sure. Porsche use the PASM thing to market their cars with a sense of dual purpose or at least a reasonable compromise. It's cheaper for them to fit a passive set up. Top quality after market is there certainly but you could buy a cup car and still upgrade the suspension I suspect. It's less about cost and more about looking innovative and using that as a marketable plus.

Don't disagree a generic passive setup would be cheaper but not probably not one that would allow the same flexibility that the pasm allows. I agree about the marketing aspect though, it's always a good thing for a manufacturer to seem sporty having a suspension mode that firms up to silly levels even it becomes unusable...

[Fl0pp3r]

Porsche aren't the only manufacturer employing mag/adaptive dampers these days lets remember - it seems all the major players are using them in their sports/track models - precisely for this 'dual-personality' that it offers. And as the software and hardware improves with every generation it's getting pretty good, maybe not ultimate passive setup good, but getting closer.

Edited by Fl0pp3r on Monday 28th November 23:51

[1 Pheasant Plucker]

I spent 3 years getting to grips with KW-V3's on my M3, in 2007/8/9, I enjoyed fiddling with them and trying to tune out under steer/over steer, I almost got a handle on it too, but if I ever did it again it would be with a remote canister system, putting little Allen keys and pins in holes for adjustment was a royal PITA, specially if it was cold and wet..! Ohlins or Moton will relieve you of many thousands of pounds for their dampers (£7/8K..?), it's all well proven and spring rated now.

When I had got it as good as I could after about 10 geo's, and my final bump/rebound settings I did a track day with Sean Edwards, got to around -2 seconds of him at Silverstone which I was very happy with.

At the end of my last day in that car Sean took me round, he was complimentary on the set up too, but on the 2nd lap I realised very quickly that I didn't have the skill and control to get the car any better, that boy could make it float in a way I'd not experienced before, such a loss, he would have won the Porsche Supercup and most likely have been a factory driver by now, I was always pulling his chain about driving a diesel..!

It's a never ending quest, but have fun chasing those 1/10's..

Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Tuesday 29th November 09:00

[Dr S]

isaldiri said:

Cost is almost certainly the real reason why Porsche went the adaptive route. The cost of the PASM damper compared to one of the top quality units (those with remote reservoirs) says it all I'd say. Nevermind the time taken to setup and fine tune the dual spring setup as per slippydiff suggestion which imo really would let one combine road/track usage, especially if in-cabin suspension controllers are available now for some of the high end units.

Indeed. The stock Porsche dampers are pretty cheap items. KW and ohters are in a very different league

[Dr S]

1 Pheasant Plucker said:

I spent 3 years getting to grips with KW-V3's on my M3, in 2007/8/9, I enjoyed fiddling with them and trying to tune out under steer/over steer, I almost got a handle on it too, but if I ever did it again it would be with a remote canister system, putting little Allen keys and pins in holes for adjustment was a royal PITA, specially if it was cold and wet..! Ohlins or Moton will relieve you of many thousands of pounds for their dampers (£7/8K..?), it's all well proven and spring rated now.

When I had got it as good as I could after about 10 geo's, and my final bump/rebound settings I did a track day with Sean Edwards, got to around -2 seconds of him at Silverstone which I was very happy with.

At the end of my last day in that car Sean took me round, he was complimentary on the set up too, but on the 2nd lap I realised very quickly that I didn't have the skill and control to get the car any better, that boy could make it float in a way I'd not experienced before, such a loss, he would have won the Porsche Supercup and most likely have been a factory driver by now, I was always pulling his chain about driving a diesel..!

It's a never ending quest, but have fun chasing those 1/10's..

Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Tuesday 29th November 09:00

I can only recommend to have a pro helping you with set-up. It will be much faster and much better

[Digga]

Dr S said:

Indeed. The stock Porsche dampers are pretty cheap items. KW and ohters are in a very different league

OEM dampers are, in general, a compromise and, ultimately built to a budget. On a Porsche, it might be quite a generous budget, but there's still a constraint.

I see similar with mountain bike forks and dampers (and Ohlins have got involved in this field in the last few years) where building your own bike using 'factory' parts, although being more expensive, will get better, more durable components on a number of levels. Factory Fox or Rock Shox can be a long way superior to OEM spec units.

I know more about mtb forks than I ever wanted to...

[MaxA]

I'm planning to fit the TPS DSC PASM module to get the best out of my B16 Damptronics, as I plan to keep the car a road car. If I ever need to replace the suspension, I'd probably look at Ohlins.

A track car, however, should be at another level, and I would be looking for something a bit more adjustable and exotic, not just a set of KWs or some such. And of course you'd need to think about all the rest of the suspension, the arms, joints and bushes, ARBs etc.