Licence or ban cycling in London
Discussion
I really don't see cycling to work in central London viable
We are spending millions changing the road for cyclist
How is it then that they feel free to ignore the Highway Code
I ride a GS1200A to work and it's a freeforall riding from Vauxhall to Streatham
Mainly men completely taking the bus lane shabbily cycling home
The WestEnd is similar with several shouty types on bikes
First of, the cost
Why are we spending millions promoting cycling in London?
Like NewYork, London is too busy and dangerous
Secondly. How is it cyclists can do what they like?
Discuss
We are spending millions changing the road for cyclist
How is it then that they feel free to ignore the Highway Code
I ride a GS1200A to work and it's a freeforall riding from Vauxhall to Streatham
Mainly men completely taking the bus lane shabbily cycling home
The WestEnd is similar with several shouty types on bikes
First of, the cost
Why are we spending millions promoting cycling in London?
Like NewYork, London is too busy and dangerous
Secondly. How is it cyclists can do what they like?
Discuss
I hope I'm in a position to answer, commuting on either a road bike or a Honda CBR to Moorgate from SE London/Kent depending on the day...
There are a few reasons I'll choose one over the other, for the pushbike:
Don't have to spend my hour in the gym
Feel awake by the time I arrive (more productive)
Lost 4 stone in 3 months last time I did it consistently
£12 a day cheaper than the train
Know how long it'll take me to get it irrelevant of strikes or traffic
Motorbike:
Faster, at my desk <30 mins after leaving
£10.50 a day cheaper than the train
Bikes of all kinds have their place in our city, less so the buses, taxi's and private cars.
Why compare London to NYC, topogrpahically and street width wise it has more in common with The Hague/Berlin where bikes are far more common. People riding bikes are more than likely saving money, the NHS though being fitter (even allowing some accident risk) and freeing capacity on public transport. Like drivers there are a minirity who don't obey the rules and the stupid thing is, the more cyclists/motorbikes there are the saver we are collectively as people are far more likely to notice you.
There are a few reasons I'll choose one over the other, for the pushbike:
Don't have to spend my hour in the gym
Feel awake by the time I arrive (more productive)
Lost 4 stone in 3 months last time I did it consistently
£12 a day cheaper than the train
Know how long it'll take me to get it irrelevant of strikes or traffic
Motorbike:
Faster, at my desk <30 mins after leaving
£10.50 a day cheaper than the train
Bikes of all kinds have their place in our city, less so the buses, taxi's and private cars.
Why compare London to NYC, topogrpahically and street width wise it has more in common with The Hague/Berlin where bikes are far more common. People riding bikes are more than likely saving money, the NHS though being fitter (even allowing some accident risk) and freeing capacity on public transport. Like drivers there are a minirity who don't obey the rules and the stupid thing is, the more cyclists/motorbikes there are the saver we are collectively as people are far more likely to notice you.
I used to cycle in London as a student. It was quicker than the tube, quicker than a car (which I couldn't afford) and cheaper than either.
I didn't break any laws, and I didn't take up any space that car users wanted to use.
20-some years on and life takes me back to London for work. I can't use a bike because I'm away from home and living in a hotel. So I use a car. It's sh*t. I clog the roads up and queue twice a day. But I'm licenced now so it#s OK, is it?
Oh, and I see people breaking road laws every day. In cars, on motorbikes and some even on bikes or on foot. Why is that OK?
I didn't break any laws, and I didn't take up any space that car users wanted to use.
20-some years on and life takes me back to London for work. I can't use a bike because I'm away from home and living in a hotel. So I use a car. It's sh*t. I clog the roads up and queue twice a day. But I'm licenced now so it#s OK, is it?
Oh, and I see people breaking road laws every day. In cars, on motorbikes and some even on bikes or on foot. Why is that OK?
ds.stuttgartmetal said:
1.How is it then that they feel free to ignore the Highway Code
2. Why are we spending millions promoting cycling in London?
3. Like NewYork, London is too busy and dangerous
4. Secondly. How is it cyclists can do what they like?
Discuss
1. because they're the same as everyone else, and unless you're blind you'll see everyone else (including yourself) ignoring the Highway Code. The massive mystery for me is why is there such a strong consensus that cyclists should behave different from *everybody* else and obey the highway code that *everybody* else ignores.2. Why are we spending millions promoting cycling in London?
3. Like NewYork, London is too busy and dangerous
4. Secondly. How is it cyclists can do what they like?
Discuss
2. The UK is not promoting cycling in any meaningful way. However to not do so is extraordinarily expensive http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/a...
and thus we have our extraordinarily expensive problems - congestion, obesity, air quality, and cycling address all three of those better than any other method.
3. Why on earth cite a continent halfway round the world? Why not cite the continent smack bang next door, the one we're joined to? They manage perfectly well with cycling rates many times greater than ours, and if you go there with your eyes open you can see the benefits.
4. See 1. Because *everybody* else does the same. Please explain why you think cyclists (or any other group) should behave differently from everybody else. It's never going to happen.
stuttgartmetal said:
If they had licences issued to them, they might be less of a danger to themselves.
Why do motorists come out with such stupid statements as this though, ones that fly in the face of all fact, experience and common sense?80% of cyclists have got licences. 80% of cyclists are drivers (with the added experience of cycling).
You'll have seen how mental the drivers in London are (though they're complete pussies compared to the drivers in other European capitals). I reckon they'd/we'd all benefit if a degree of cycling was compulsory.
Well done.creampuff said:
I like Sydney. There are hardly any cyclists. It's paradise.
I like Copenhagen, where there's loads.Seriously though, I wonder if there is an argument for separating heavy traffic and bikes. If it's practical, or could be made so, I think that would benefit cycling not just in London, but elsewhere to.
stuttgartmetal said:
If they had licences issued to them, they might be less of a danger to themselves.
I have a licence issued to me, to drive avcar. It makes me neither better nor worse as a cyclist. The biggest danger to me, whether I'm on 2 wheels or 4, is incompetent or aggressive drivers. They have licences, but it doesn't seem to work on them.Whilst I agree everyone has the potential to be a Muppet on the road, the one thing that is different is cyclists have no insurance.
When a car/lory/bus driver gets it wrong and takes out a pedestrian/cyclist his insurance will cover the accident.
When a cyclist takes out a pedestrian ( which would hurt) or damages a vehicle when they misjudge something nothing happens!
That's the only change that really needs to happen ( oh and a bit of courtesy from all parties)
When a car/lory/bus driver gets it wrong and takes out a pedestrian/cyclist his insurance will cover the accident.
When a cyclist takes out a pedestrian ( which would hurt) or damages a vehicle when they misjudge something nothing happens!
That's the only change that really needs to happen ( oh and a bit of courtesy from all parties)
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