Why no lights on?

[james7]

yellowjack said:

Wow! Original and funny! You should tour a show with quality material like this...

Look on it as a light hearted way of broaching the subject of why you seem to have such an attitude problem with people who have posted on here.
Why the need to be so angry and rude?

[yellowjack]

james7 said:

Look on it as a light hearted way of broaching the subject of why you seem to have such an attitude problem with people who have posted on here.
Why the need to be so angry and rude?

I'm guessing that you didn't read on past the post that you quoted?

Given that a later exchange with the OP went like this...

Harleyboy said:

yellowjack said:

...then I'll happily withdraw/re-assess some of the inferences I drew from earlier, less detailed posts. I'm not after an internet fight, nor are you, so it seems. I wasn't 'wound up' or otherwise pissed off by you particularly, but I'm sure you'll appreciate that a) I refrained from being directly abusive to you, and b) there is a very vocal core of cyclist-hating Neanderthals within the PH community who need challenging. I suspected (wrongly, as it turns out) that you were one of them. Sorry!

I totally agree that everyone should take responsibility for their safety if it is something they can control. Such as buying lights and carrying spare batteries. I don't think we're on opposite sides of the fence after all...

Thanks and yep, think we're on the same side of the fence! I appreciate your comments and I will make a note to add more detail in the future

...where he clarified his thoughts, and I apologised for jumping the gun, I've put the bit that I think answers your question in bold.

I've no problem with folk challenging the idiocy of some cyclists at all. Nor do I take issue with questions about why cyclists do some of the things they do. Some of that questioning comes from a position of ignorance, and the questioner seeks genuine enlightenment. Too often though, those questions are a thin veil behind which a bike-hating idiot hides to troll the Pedal Powered forum. And just like in real life, I won't hold back from challenging this sort of bigoted arrogance. Angry and rude? Maybe. To faceless internet hard-men who like to throw their "powerfully built company director" weight about and "dominate the thread", certainly. But they deserve what they get. I can assure you that I'm REALLY nice, if/when you get to know me...




ETA:

Back on topic, I went to collect my son from a shift in the next town tonight (no buses after 7pm) and on the way there I passed a 'ninja' cyclist who was lighting his way, in the pitch black, along an unlit 50mph single carriageway road with no footways or verges to speak of, using...
a bloody mobile phone on 'flashlight' mode, held in his MOUTH!
...and no rear lights AT ALL. As I passed, he immediately disappeared from view in the mirrors, and there was traffic catching him very quickly. I genuinely feared that he wouldn't make it to the end of that road, but on the return journey I didn't come across anyone lying on the ground bleeding. So I guess he did indeed make it home alive. But doing absolutely nothing to enhance one's visibility to other road users is borderline suicidal behaviour, IMHO. It's a road that makes me nervous when I'm dressed in my brightest jersey in broad daylight, as the 50mph limit seems to be treated as a minimum speed limit by the vast majority of drivers on it...

Edited by yellowjack on Wednesday 15th February 22:26

[james7]

yellowjack said:

james7 said:

Look on it as a light hearted way of broaching the subject of why you seem to have such an attitude problem with people who have posted on here.
Why the need to be so angry and rude?

I'm guessing that you didn't read on past the post that you quoted?

You guessed wrong. I had read it. Just wondering why the attitude problem in the first place and why you felt the need to be so rude and angry as your first reaction. Perhaps its you that had not read the posts on here.

[yellowjack]

james7 said:

You guessed wrong. I had read it. Just wondering why the attitude problem in the first place and why you felt the need to be so rude and angry as your first reaction. Perhaps its you that had not read the posts on here.

Obviously you're the sort of chap who could pick a fight in solitary confinement. So crack on. Take me or leave me, I'm not fussed, but I flat refuse to allow you to draw me further into one of the all too common "off topic personal slanging matches" that frequently ruin a potentially decent thread. I've said my piece and I'm parking it now. 50.Qh6+ - your move...

[james7]

yellowjack said:

Obviously you're the sort of chap who could pick a fight in solitary confinement. So crack on. Take me or leave me, I'm not fussed, but I flat refuse to allow you to draw me further into one of the all too common "off topic personal slanging matches" that frequently ruin a potentially decent thread. I've said my piece and I'm parking it now. 50.Qh6+ - your move...

Another assumption you have just jumped to again.

How about in the future just trying to have a civil discussion about things instead of going off on one of your attitude filled rants?

Cycling without lights, cyclists not using cycle lanes, cars overtaking too close, cyclists not having insurance or reg plates, cyclists jumping red lights. Just some of the things which when posted on here receive an attitude from you and others but would be much better resolved by having a rational talk about them.
When you and others are like that do you honestly think it will educate them a little and perhaps change their opinion or just alienate them and prove their point?

[james7]

yellowjack said:

Seriously. There's a gravel hill where I can reach over 30mph on a car, and I've got 700 lumens plus out the front and I'm in a bright yellow car, all lit up like fking Blackpool seafront. Yet I get some cyclist standing his ground right in the middle of a road wide enough for the army to get their biggest wagons down it, yelling at me for driving too fast??? Jeez dude! If you've seen me coming from far enough away to attempt to block the road, and shout me down, then you could just as easily have cycled out of the way.

Imagine this being posted by a motorist in here and the reaction you and others would probably have given them for their attitude.............

[Kermit power]

allegerita said:

I must confess that we hardly use lights on our bikes in the Netherlands. This is probably due to a combination of things:
Availability of a generally well-lit cycle lanes infrastructure
The “right of the weakest”, which is defined in Dutch traffic laws to protect cyclists under all circumstances. No matter what you do as a non-cyclist, if you hit a cyclist you are wrong and you pay.

It is not good, but it does make sense if you are grown up with it and everybody acts accordingly.

And: wearing a hi viz on a bike is definitely a bit idiot TBH. Only teachers with a group of 25 pupils on their bikes and people who are not good wear these.

Mind: I am not against cycling: I commute 18 km every day on my Koga, Sunday morning out on the Bianchi racer, and I am building my own design recumbent bike now. I never used to use my lights because of the heavy dynamo action, but I have changed to battery operated so then it is kind of cool to switch them on, even in the daylight!

That strikes me as barking mad, to be honest!

I wouldn't drive a car without lights even on a well lit road, so why on earth would I think that a much smaller me on a bike would be properly visible in dark clothing without lights on a well lit road?

The only time I've ever hit a cyclist was one who rode across me on a roundabout with no lights and black clothing. By the time he was visible in the fairly narrow beam angle of my lights it was too late, and despite hitting the brakes, I still hit his rear wheel, taking him off his bike.

Given that I was on a bike myself with proper lights, I'm pretty certain that the Police here would've given me the benefit of the doubt and given him a bking for trying to commit suicide, but I'd be interested to know if the Dutch police would somehow think I was at fault?

"Protection of the weakest" seems like a completely stupid idea if the weakest wilfully fail to protect themselves!

[snobetter]

I keep an eye on planetx, got a load of front and rear lights for 75p in a sale, similar to this: -

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/LIYEPPSRL/yepp-sparky...

then keep a front and rear in my saddle bag as emergency spares.

[tuneltek]

https://www.boardwalkbuy.co.uk/collections/allprod...

i think this is a good idea to assist less skilled drivers judge the space needed for a clear pass

and cyclists think they own the road...now they can!! even its only 2m...cheap too

[yellowjack]

Driving home last night I had a "WTF!!!" moment. As in "WTF is that on the road ahead of me?" Turned out it was a cyclist with no lights or reflectors on his bike at all, riding on a (thankfully well lit, and limited to 40mph) dual carriageway.

His one concession to safety/visibility? A dirty old Hi-Vis waistcoat that appeared to be tied to the right hand side of his backpack. Sadly, no opportunity to stop to point out his folly, and he didn't look like the sort who'd take advice readily either.

Crazy to be out after dark without lights of any kind.

[SteveSteveson]

james7 said:

yellowjack said:

Obviously you're the sort of chap who could pick a fight in solitary confinement. So crack on. Take me or leave me, I'm not fussed, but I flat refuse to allow you to draw me further into one of the all too common "off topic personal slanging matches" that frequently ruin a potentially decent thread. I've said my piece and I'm parking it now. 50.Qh6+ - your move...

Another assumption you have just jumped to again.

How about in the future just trying to have a civil discussion about things instead of going off on one of your attitude filled rants?

Cycling without lights, cyclists not using cycle lanes, cars overtaking too close, cyclists not having insurance or reg plates, cyclists jumping red lights. Just some of the things which when posted on here receive an attitude from you and others but would be much better resolved by having a rational talk about them.
When you and others are like that do you honestly think it will educate them a little and perhaps change their opinion or just alienate them and prove their point?

Go and read through the thread about cyclists during in London. It gets a little frustrating when you get a constant stream of people arguing that cyclists should not be on the road or trawling YouTube for videos that "prove" some vague point by showing a cyclist riding without lights or something. Education only works when people want to learn. Unfortunately too many people on PH just want to attack cyclists and it gets rather hard work to show how attitudes are wrong only for the goalposts to be moved or statements misquoted or ignored when they do not follow the narrative of "cyclists are all dangerous".

[james7]

SteveSteveson said:

Go and read through the thread about cyclists during in London. It gets a little frustrating when you get a constant stream of people arguing that cyclists should not be on the road or trawling YouTube for videos that "prove" some vague point by showing a cyclist riding without lights or something. Education only works when people want to learn. Unfortunately too many people on PH just want to attack cyclists and it gets rather hard work to show how attitudes are wrong only for the goalposts to be moved or statements misquoted or ignored when they do not follow the narrative of "cyclists are all dangerous".

I agree totally. But when some cyclists have this attitude

yellowjack said:

Dog walkers and suicidal nocturnal ramblers! Why no lights/reflective clothing?

Seriously. There's a gravel hill where I can reach over 30mph on a MTB, and I've got 700 lumens plus out the front and I'm in a bright yellow jacket, all lit up like fking Blackpool seafront. Yet I get some lunatic red socked rambler standing his ground right in the middle of a track wide enough for the army to get their biggest wagons down it, yelling at me for riding too fast??? Jeez dude! If you've seen me coming from far enough away to attempt to block the path, and shout me down, then you could just as easily have stepped out of the way.

It shows the problem lies with both parties. Why is it ok for a cyclist to have this attitude towards a walker yet not for a motorist to have it towards a cyclist? If everyone keeps on with the us and them mentality it will never change......................

[SteveSteveson]

I don't know the context or background of yellowjacks post, so can't really comment. However I didn't say it was ok for cyclists to do anything or motorists to do anything, just explaining why people get so fed up constantly defending themselves.

[james7]

SteveSteveson said:

I don't know the context or background of yellowjacks post, so can't really comment.

It was something he wrote earlier in this thread on page 1 i think.

I was only thinking that his motive for feeling frustrated/angry may be a similar thing to what a car driver experiences and thought it might help for him to understand where a frustrated car driver may be coming from and to realise that maybe, just maybe its not always everyone elses fault and that we are all human and make mistakes, and equally we need to make allowances for others mistakes too.
I just find it odd that no one else has asked him about it apart from me, yet if a car driver wrote the same thing from their perspective in this part of the forum the reaction would be different. I am wondering why, that's all. In reality i think i know why
When in the real world we should all be questioning our own and others driving/riding and seeing how it affects others and what we can do to improve matters.
Apart from some people of course because they never get it wrong