Old steel frame - what would you do with it?
Discussion
Barchettaman said:
I don't understand how the Ultegra STI levers are indexing a Dura Ace 7400 RD correctly. The cable pull is slightly different.
Is that the case? Is the rear shifting a bit funky?
I don't recall an issue. Just had a look at the lever to see if I misremembered and they were in fact Dura Ace. Turns out I was half right and I had misremembered... they're 105 'Flight Deck'.Is that the case? Is the rear shifting a bit funky?
W00DY - That looks great on those wheels!
I'd go (1) or (4). I think if you try and make it modern it'll be neither one thing nor the other. If you fully period restore it, will you use it?
I've got a Reynolds 531 frame I bought new when I was 16. It means everything to me! I've rebuilt it using modern wheels, 8 speed cassette (with a small spread to the rear to accomodate), 105 crank and converted it to a threadless headset and modern bars. The brakes and crucially the non-indexed down tube shifters are original.
The benefit of changing the crank, stem and bars is that it now fits 42 year old me as opposed to 16 year old me. The wheels make it ride and accelerate nicely; the brakes are adequate and the gears nostalgic. Who needs to see where they're going when changing gear anyway?!!
In comparison to my other bike it's like a classic car. To be indulged and enjoyed for what it is. It's probably faster to be honest because of the gearing, but it's not so versatile or competent. But it's the most fun, and when the mood takes me it's my first choice.
I've got a Reynolds 531 frame I bought new when I was 16. It means everything to me! I've rebuilt it using modern wheels, 8 speed cassette (with a small spread to the rear to accomodate), 105 crank and converted it to a threadless headset and modern bars. The brakes and crucially the non-indexed down tube shifters are original.
The benefit of changing the crank, stem and bars is that it now fits 42 year old me as opposed to 16 year old me. The wheels make it ride and accelerate nicely; the brakes are adequate and the gears nostalgic. Who needs to see where they're going when changing gear anyway?!!
In comparison to my other bike it's like a classic car. To be indulged and enjoyed for what it is. It's probably faster to be honest because of the gearing, but it's not so versatile or competent. But it's the most fun, and when the mood takes me it's my first choice.
scherzkeks said:
Would avoid Shimano parts of this era, as they bend quite easily with heavy use.
Such as? Me and my aging band of mates have quite a few old bikes with Shimano on, I can't say that any of us have bent anything. I did once rip a Campagnolo hub in half though, it sheered around the centre, where the oil port is, not sure I'm still generating that sort of power these days...m444ttb said:
I don't recall an issue. Just had a look at the lever to see if I misremembered and they were in fact Dura Ace. Turns out I was half right and I had misremembered... they're 105 'Flight Deck'.
!
Ah, OK. 9-speed 105 shifters will work with 8-speed dura ace, you'll just have one redundant click.!
Actually the 8x DuraAce shifters pull the same cable per shift
as all Shimano 9x (including the 9x DuraAce) shifters do.
I would put a standard Shimano rear derailleur on, swap the chain and cassette for 9-speed equivalents, maybe 12-30, put on a cheap FSA square taper compact crankset, mudguards and 700c25 tyres, perfect winter bike right there.
Sell on the DA crankset and rear D to the classic crowd, you might wind up quids in!
I already have a winter bike or two. This needs to be some different and/or special. I still can't really make up my mind bar deciding not to go back to 6 speed or go the SRAM eTap route. I'm going to measure the rear and try and 11 speed wheel in. Assuming it'll take 11 speed fine then I won't do anything to the frame and I can think on it a little longer.
m444ttb said:
I already have a winter bike or two. This needs to be some different and/or special. I still can't really make up my mind bar deciding not to go back to 6 speed or go the SRAM eTap route. I'm going to measure the rear and try and 11 speed wheel in. Assuming it'll take 11 speed fine then I won't do anything to the frame and I can think on it a little longer.
At worst it will be a 126mm width rear end, so you'll have to spread each dropout by 2mm. You can have this cold set, meaning tug it past enough that when it springs back it's 2mm further out, or you can spread them out just enough to put the wheel in, which is easy to do.Barchettaman said:
Nearly. Cold setting is permanently spreading the rear drop outs so you DON'T have to force the rear wheel in!
Which is what I said? The choice is have the rear cold set, or spring each side a whole 2mm and "force" the wheel in. I've got two old frames that haven't been cold set and the effort needed to pull them apart is minimal, slip the drive side into the dropout, and a slight push of the thumb allows the non drive side to enter its dropout, no drama.Cold setting 753 isn't recommended. I thought about running a modern groupset on my 753 but was told by an ex Carlton/Raleigh framebuilder not to do it. He reckoned spragging the rear to get a 130mm axle in wasn't a great idea either.
The following article is copied from a March 11,1983 issue of Velonews reporting on the NYC International Cycle Show of that year. (thanks Mike Richardson)
"Too-tough tubing"
Have you ever heard that a frame made of Reynolds 753 tubing can't be "cold set" (i.e.bent back into alignment after being twisted in a crash)? Is it true? If so, how come? We asked TI Reynolds Show representative TOM FIELD.
"No way" is now Field described the chance of cold setting 753. "You just can't budge it at all. In fact, once it's jigged and brazed you just can't change it. It must be perfectly aligned by the framebuilder and that's why we are so careful about who is allowed to build with 753."
Field said that any framebuilder who wants to use 753 is sent a test kit containing tubes, a bottom bracket, silver solder, flux and instructions. He assembles the parts and returns them to the TI Raleigh lab in England, where five tests determine his proficiency. Field said about half of the 753 applicants are refused permission to abtain and use the tubing. He said that the U.S. now has five qualified 753 framebuilders.
So what happens if a 753 frame is crashed out of alignment? First, Field said, since 753 is the strongest bike tubing in the world(diameter for diameter), it is the most resistant to bending in a fall. However, it tends to dent easier than other tubings because it is so thin; the center portion is only 0.3mm thick, or about three times the thickness of one Velo-news page. Once a 753 frame is actually bent, it is a major undertaking to make it right again.
"The builder must be very good with his torch, use a slow flame to heat the part, then replace the tube or realign the frame, as necessary," Field said. He added that the expense of this type of repair makes 753 "not the best choice for the younger or less-than-serious rider.
"Reynolds 753 is for the discerning rider," Field summed up. "It is so light and so stiff that the serious competitor can't afford not to have it."
Weight of the 753 road set is 1,800 grams. The track set is 1,750 grams.
The following article is copied from a March 11,1983 issue of Velonews reporting on the NYC International Cycle Show of that year. (thanks Mike Richardson)
"Too-tough tubing"
Have you ever heard that a frame made of Reynolds 753 tubing can't be "cold set" (i.e.bent back into alignment after being twisted in a crash)? Is it true? If so, how come? We asked TI Reynolds Show representative TOM FIELD.
"No way" is now Field described the chance of cold setting 753. "You just can't budge it at all. In fact, once it's jigged and brazed you just can't change it. It must be perfectly aligned by the framebuilder and that's why we are so careful about who is allowed to build with 753."
Field said that any framebuilder who wants to use 753 is sent a test kit containing tubes, a bottom bracket, silver solder, flux and instructions. He assembles the parts and returns them to the TI Raleigh lab in England, where five tests determine his proficiency. Field said about half of the 753 applicants are refused permission to abtain and use the tubing. He said that the U.S. now has five qualified 753 framebuilders.
So what happens if a 753 frame is crashed out of alignment? First, Field said, since 753 is the strongest bike tubing in the world(diameter for diameter), it is the most resistant to bending in a fall. However, it tends to dent easier than other tubings because it is so thin; the center portion is only 0.3mm thick, or about three times the thickness of one Velo-news page. Once a 753 frame is actually bent, it is a major undertaking to make it right again.
"The builder must be very good with his torch, use a slow flame to heat the part, then replace the tube or realign the frame, as necessary," Field said. He added that the expense of this type of repair makes 753 "not the best choice for the younger or less-than-serious rider.
"Reynolds 753 is for the discerning rider," Field summed up. "It is so light and so stiff that the serious competitor can't afford not to have it."
Weight of the 753 road set is 1,800 grams. The track set is 1,750 grams.
Interesting. Argos will know the answer as they built the frame in the first place. My father in law claims he widened it 'a little' (whatever that means) to fit the 8 speed 7400 where it was originally 6 speed. If Argos don't want to go any further then the decision is very easy (stick with 8 speed). Assuming they don't tell me the frame has been ruined by my father in law's DIY!!! If that happens it may be tidied up and hung on the wall instead.
8speed generally use 130mm spacing so modern stuff may well fit? It could be that the rear triangle isn't 753? Builders would use 753 for the main tubes & 531 for the rest...see what the guys at Argos reckon. Mine is definitely set at 126mm & running with Campagnolo 6speed, it's 753 at the back end so it'll have to stay put. In the end I bought a modern steel frame & built it up using SRAM Red tackle & decided to leave the Raleigh as GoD intended ;-))
8speed generally use 130mm spacing so modern stuff may well fit? It could be that the rear triangle isn't 753? Builders would use 753 for the main tubes & 531 for the rest...see what the guys at Argos reckon. Mine is definitely set at 126mm & running with Campagnolo 6speed, it's 753 at the back end so it'll have to stay put. In the end I bought a modern steel frame & built it up using SRAM Red tackle & decided to leave the Raleigh as GoD intended ;-))
Personally, if it were mine I'd...
Ensure the rear dropouts were spaced to 130mm.
Get it painted in a traditional style (but not necessarily the original colours).
Fit new Dura-Ace 10 speed downtube shifters.
Fit modern 10 speed groupset (preferably Dura-Ace).
Fit 'Aero' brake levers.
...and just ride the darned thing. Finished with hand-built wheels with silver hubs, spokes, and rims, wrapped with amber-wall tyres (Compass brand, in the largest size that'll fit).
There are some real nice handlebars and stems about these days too, that have the traditional appearance to keep it looking like a classic, but performing like a new bike.
I'd love to have the funds to get cracking with a few of the frames that are rotting in my dad's shed. He's 70, and has a chronic bad back, but he won't give his bikes away because I think he secretly believes that one day he'll get around to refurbishing them and riding them again. And none of us 'kids' really wants to burst his bubble...
Ensure the rear dropouts were spaced to 130mm.
Get it painted in a traditional style (but not necessarily the original colours).
Fit new Dura-Ace 10 speed downtube shifters.
Fit modern 10 speed groupset (preferably Dura-Ace).
Fit 'Aero' brake levers.
...and just ride the darned thing. Finished with hand-built wheels with silver hubs, spokes, and rims, wrapped with amber-wall tyres (Compass brand, in the largest size that'll fit).
There are some real nice handlebars and stems about these days too, that have the traditional appearance to keep it looking like a classic, but performing like a new bike.
I'd love to have the funds to get cracking with a few of the frames that are rotting in my dad's shed. He's 70, and has a chronic bad back, but he won't give his bikes away because I think he secretly believes that one day he'll get around to refurbishing them and riding them again. And none of us 'kids' really wants to burst his bubble...
gazza285 said:
Which is what I said? The choice is have the rear cold set, or spring each side a whole 2mm and "force" the wheel in. I've got two old frames that haven't been cold set and the effort needed to pull them apart is minimal, slip the drive side into the dropout, and a slight push of the thumb allows the non drive side to enter its dropout, no drama.
Quite correct - my apologies.yellowjack said:
Personally, if it were mine I'd...
Ensure the rear dropouts were spaced to 130mm.
Get it painted in a traditional style (but not necessarily the original colours).
Fit new Dura-Ace 10 speed downtube shifters.
Fit modern 10 speed groupset (preferably Dura-Ace).
Fit 'Aero' brake levers.
...and just ride the darned thing. Finished with hand-built wheels with silver hubs, spokes, and rims, wrapped with amber-wall tyres (Compass brand, in the largest size that'll fit).
There are some real nice handlebars and stems about these days too, that have the traditional appearance to keep it looking like a classic, but performing like a new bike.
I'd love to have the funds to get cracking with a few of the frames that are rotting in my dad's shed. He's 70, and has a chronic bad back, but he won't give his bikes away because I think he secretly believes that one day he'll get around to refurbishing them and riding them again. And none of us 'kids' really wants to burst his bubble...
Now that's interesting. I knew there was 10 speed DA (fairly obvious) but never imagined they'd still be catering for downtube shifters! Not hard to find either it seems and that groupset is silver. HmmmmEnsure the rear dropouts were spaced to 130mm.
Get it painted in a traditional style (but not necessarily the original colours).
Fit new Dura-Ace 10 speed downtube shifters.
Fit modern 10 speed groupset (preferably Dura-Ace).
Fit 'Aero' brake levers.
...and just ride the darned thing. Finished with hand-built wheels with silver hubs, spokes, and rims, wrapped with amber-wall tyres (Compass brand, in the largest size that'll fit).
There are some real nice handlebars and stems about these days too, that have the traditional appearance to keep it looking like a classic, but performing like a new bike.
I'd love to have the funds to get cracking with a few of the frames that are rotting in my dad's shed. He's 70, and has a chronic bad back, but he won't give his bikes away because I think he secretly believes that one day he'll get around to refurbishing them and riding them again. And none of us 'kids' really wants to burst his bubble...
Barchettaman said:
gazza285 said:
Which is what I said? The choice is have the rear cold set, or spring each side a whole 2mm and "force" the wheel in. I've got two old frames that haven't been cold set and the effort needed to pull them apart is minimal, slip the drive side into the dropout, and a slight push of the thumb allows the non drive side to enter its dropout, no drama.
Quite correct - my apologies.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff