Old steel frame - what would you do with it?

[yellowjack]

m444ttb said:

Now that's interesting. I knew there was 10 speed DA (fairly obvious) but never imagined they'd still be catering for downtube shifters! Not hard to find either it seems and that groupset is silver. Hmmmm

Now I know "opinions are like aholes..." etc, etc, but my thinking behind what I suggested is based mainly on aesthetics. Traditional round steel tubing is narrow, and beautiful. It is, IMHO, how a bicycle should look. But the addition of integrated brakes/gears on the handlebars is too "BIG" for the look of the rest of the bike. It spoils the balance, at least to my eye. I've no agenda, no axe to grind against either modern 'fat tube' bikes, or STI shifters. I have them on my new bike and love them, and had them on my last bike too, with no issues. But the old aluminium bike died (hit by a van) which gave me the option of putting a full Ultegra 10-speed group set onto my old (1996, and only Cro-Moly tubing) steel road bike. But I just couldn't do it. I had a spare shifter that I 'offered up' to the handlebars and it just looked wrong.

Then things went badly on a ride and I bent the rear dropouts when the mech went into the spokes and damn near tore the (bolted in) rear wheel out of the frame. So I never did fit new 10-speed downtube shifters to my bike. It's still awaiting the funds for a frame repair, but when it does eventually get done, my intention is to do as I suggested to you. A used Ultegra 6700 groupset, less the shifters. Dura-Ace downtube shifters, Shimano R600 (if they are still available) or R400 brake levers, and some Ultegra hub based silver rimmed wheels will go on so that it has all the convenience of a wider choice of modern gears, allied with the general look of a 'period' bike. Best of both worlds in my opinion. I also think that keeping the downtube shifters makes the bike different enough from my modern road bike to make me want to actually ride the thing from time to time. I think that mine being heavy, dull-feeling, basic Cro-Moly tubing means that if I fitted STI shifters then it would never be "different enough" to be worth dragging out of the garage instead of it's modern lightweight carbon fibre stablemate...


..ultimately it's your bike to do with as you please. But I'd counsel against getting rid of the shifter bosses on the downtube, even if you do go STI shifters. There are nice-looking options for cable stops/guides that screw into the bosses, which will mean that you can always change your mind and put it back to a more 'traditional' look. Once you grind those shifter mounts off there's very little chance that it could go back to old school shifting. So if there's even a slight chance you'll regret it, don't get rid of 'em just yet.

[m444ttb]

I agree on the aesthetic point. So do we think is the best looking 10 speed groupset? The current Tiagra is supposed to be very good and it wouldn't surprise me if it were the equal of the old 10 speed Ultegra in terms of shift quality. Such is the trickle down of these things. Dura-Ace 7900 (I think that's the correct set) still seems to be very expensive.

[yellowjack]

I'd favour a chainset along these lines...

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-105-570...

...as again, the more 'solid' four-arm Ultegra style stuff isn't as pleasing to the eye on such a nice old frame. I'd shop around, see if there's anything like this that looks 'right' for a period frame. Sadly, mine was just going to end up with my old Ultegra 6700 groupset, which is the wrong style AND wrong colour really, but it would have had to do until I could buy better suited stuff.

I'd even consider an older, pre-owned groupset, even one attached to a bike. You can then buy the bike even if it's the 'wrong size' for you, and sell it on as just a frame once you've got the bits you need off it.

As a broad rule (again, only my opinion) the delicate tube profiles need delicate looking components, else the frame gets swamped, whereas it's the most attractive part of the bike and needs to be 'strong' enough to aesthetically dominate the components attached to it.

[Barchettaman]

I went with a 10-speed Tiagra groupset (with 9-speed Sora shifters) for my Merckx build as it was what I had in the parts bin, and the brakes and derailleurs had a light blueish anodizing that went well with the frame colours, I felt:
I





The aesthetics of the Tiagra components were improved by removing the Tiagra decals with a microfibre and acetone.

I woulr personally recommend 10-speed tiagra. I have it on my commuter and over 15,000km it's been utterly flawless. The shifting with Jagwire RoadPro cables and housings is spot on. The Merckx above runs full-length housing to the rear brake and it is comparable friction-wise to the front. No difference.

Edited by Barchettaman on Wednesday 1st March 07:12

[m444ttb]

Presume that's the previous version of Tiagra as I think the current version only launched mid-2016. If not 15k miles on it is very impressive! I have the previous version on my commuter bike and the abuse it has taken with only a couple of chains required along the way has impressed me. When the drivetrain is properly clean it still runs really nicely too.

[Barchettaman]

Yep, on the commuter it's the earliest 10-speed tiagra. Lovely stuff!

The Merckx isn't the commuter, by the way!

[Deefor62]

W00DY said:

That picture is responsible for me forking out on an old steel Colnago on a certain online auction site.
Goodness knows how I'm going to explain that one when it turns up.

[Matt_N]

m444ttb said:

I agree on the aesthetic point. So do we think is the best looking 10 speed groupset? The current Tiagra is supposed to be very good and it wouldn't surprise me if it were the equal of the old 10 speed Ultegra in terms of shift quality. Such is the trickle down of these things. Dura-Ace 7900 (I think that's the correct set) still seems to be very expensive.

The best looking 10 speed groupsets imo are Dura Ace 7800, Ultegra 6600 and Shimano 5600, all are silver and fit the look of a classic look bike.

All have external cable routing for the shifters and therefore have a lovely shift action.

You could also go the way of Campag, Athena is available in silver and has a nice look about it or the new Potenza set is also in silver but a little bit of the look is lost with the 4 arm chainset.

[Julietbravo]

yellowjack said:

Now I know "opinions are like aholes..." etc, etc, but my thinking behind what I suggested is based mainly on aesthetics. Traditional round steel tubing is narrow, and beautiful. It is, IMHO, how a bicycle should look. But the addition of integrated brakes/gears on the handlebars is too "BIG" for the look of the rest of the bike. It spoils the balance, at least to my eye. I've no agenda, no axe to grind against either modern 'fat tube' bikes, or STI shifters. I have them on my new bike and love them, and had them on my last bike too, with no issues. But the old aluminium bike died (hit by a van) which gave me the option of putting a full Ultegra 10-speed group set onto my old (1996, and only Cro-Moly tubing) steel road bike. But I just couldn't do it. I had a spare shifter that I 'offered up' to the handlebars and it just looked wrong.

^ Exactly this - it has horizontal rear dropouts and is begging to be remade as a single speed. Simple and clean. (Horizontal drop outs allow you to tension the chain). Get the right gearing and it will be fun enough for commuting and the odd hour at weekends.

[m444ttb]

Nearly 9 months of procrastination later and I finally ordered so bits! Decided to go with the cheap option ultimately so I'm keeping the Dura-Ace chain set and derailleurs with it running 8 speed. I'm replacing the chain and cassette like for like and fitting Shimano R400 'aero' brake hoods and down tube shifters. Other than spending less money I ultimately decided the down tube shifters would make it a little more retro and something different to ride. I'm also ordering some new Cinelli bars and stem (slightly wider and slightly longer than the stuff that came off) and a new Selle Italia Turbo saddle.

Next step is to get the frame sorted by Argos (the original manufacturer) now that I know nothing needs to change. Still changing my mind daily on paint scheme though. I'm going to keep the nearly new Mavic wheels which despite not being very period looking in black will do for now. I'll probably change the tyres so may choose something with a tan wall. Once it's all back together I'll post some pictures. Hopefully early spring as Argos has quite a long lead time.